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Topic: North Carolina, wants to establish a state religion< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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EastieTrekker Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 3:51 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, good ol' North Carolina seems to think freedom of religion shouldn't have to apply to its state, municipalities, or schools.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news....on?lite

Claiming that the First Amendment only applies at the Federal level, the republican congressmen proposing and supporting the bill do not recognize "federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools, or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion"

Bill here: http://www.ncleg.net/Applica....eqNum=0

Now granted, all kinds of outlandish bills are proposed each and every year - but this is scary.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I encourage people to read the bill... it isn't long (only a page).

One part of the bill I found a bit funny (if that's the word):
QUOTE
14 Whereas, the Constitution of the United States does not grant the federal
15 government and does not grant the federal courts the power to determine what is or is not
16 constitutional;

They effectively say all rulings in the SCOTUS and all federal laws are null and void if the state decides to ignore them.  Interesting argument, but I don't think it'll pick up any wings and fly.  As the article points out, the same arguments were used against school integration decades ago, and weren't any more valid then.  I'm personally counting on citizens of NC to be able to see the huge potential for unintended consequences in something like this.  Color me unconcerned.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well it does say "Congress shall make no law"

But since 1925 that has been apllied to the states as well

I don't approve, but I imagine it is more aimed more at the  exclusion of some religions.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Apr. 03 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE
I encourage people to read the bill... it isn't long (only a page).

One part of the bill I found a bit funny (if that's the word):
QUOTE
14 Whereas, the Constitution of the United States does not grant the federal
15 government and does not grant the federal courts the power to determine what is or is not
16 constitutional;

They effectively say all rulings in the SCOTUS and all federal laws are null and void if the state decides to ignore them.  Interesting argument, but I don't think it'll pick up any wings and fly.  As the article points out, the same arguments were used to argue against integration of schools decades ago, and weren't any more valid then.  I'm personally counting on citizens of NC to be able to see the huge potential for unintended consequences in something like this.  Color me unconcerned.

Thanks for pointing out the brevity of the bill (I should have mentioned it to encourage folks to check it out).

And I'm in total agreement, that this bill is probably dead on arrival.  It just struck me as one of the more outlandish bills (like the language you point out) that I've seen in a while.  And with all those "other" constitutional arguments going on - this presents a particularly opposite view of the strength of the Constitution.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think your right, Bill.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Apr. 03 2013, 4:02 pm)
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I don't approve, but I imagine it is more aimed more at the  exclusion of some religions.

If you read the bill, it clearly states

"SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion."


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also depending on how they intended to implement that they'd run the high probablility of running straight into the teeth of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Which IS aimed straight at states.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The people involved in economic development in North Carolina must be banging their heads against walls today.  The work hard trying to depict the state as a sophisticated culturally diverse place, then a few hillbillies who drank a little too much ruckus juice set thing back a century or two.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Apr. 03 2013, 2:07 pm)
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Also depending on how they intended to implement that they'd run the high probablility of running straight into the teeth of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Which IS aimed straight at states.

But y'see, that's the beautiful thing. :D  They get to say it doesn't matter whether the SCOTUS thinks it violates the 14th amendment.  Or any amendment for that matter.  They could pass legislation to repeal the 1st amendment, using the 1st amendment as their justification.

It's an awesome application of circular logic, using the US Constitution to say the US Constitution means whatever we want to think it means.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 4:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Apr. 03 2013, 3:14 pm)
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The people involved in economic development in North Carolina must be banging their heads against walls today.  The work hard trying to depict the state as a sophisticated culturally diverse place, then a few hillbillies who drank a little too much ruckus juice set thing back a century or two.

+1 on that...

(One supposes that tourism was already at a nadir in N. Korea...
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 7:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Visited the North Carolina coast last fall. Lovely area.

Seperate note, who elects these people, I mean really...who?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 7:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wycanislatrans @ Apr. 05 2013, 4:30 pm)
QUOTE
Visited the North Carolina coast last fall. Lovely area.

Seperate note, who elects these people, I mean really...who?

If I understand correctly, schools stopped teaching Civics a few decades ago...  we might just be seeing the result now...

Last time folks seriously argued the superiority of state governments over federal as final arbiter -- 600,000 Americans perished!  How ironic that the Party of Lincoln that defended the federation with such determination is now the one that seeks to undermine it?   Will wonders never cease?  ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 7:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wait, North Carolina?

I thought they already had a state religion: Duke basketball.


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