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Topic: Chuck Hagel says NK's nukes are a real threat, Most experts say they aren't< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 9:36 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel earlier said Pyongyang represented a "real and clear danger" to the United States and to its allies South Korea and Japan.
"They have nuclear capacity now, they have missile delivery capacity now," Hagel said after a strategy speech at the National Defense University. "We take those threats seriously, we have to take those threats seriously.


But, while Pyongyang has successfully carried out test nuclear detonations, most experts think it is not yet capable of mounting a device on a ballistic missile capable of striking US bases or territory.

http://www.google.com/hostedn....efeb.01


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Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 10:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

North Korea could drive a truck up to the border and set it off: so his stated concern regarding South Korea stands regardless of guesses on their mounting abilities. Or on a fishing boat off Japan.

Taking things seriousely is what he's paid for. That means he's paying attention rather than waving off "flies" like Bush did with al Qaeda.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 10:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And as we did in Libya and are doing in Syria. And Hagel says specifically, that NK has the nuke and the delivery system NOW, while the experts say no. Saddam had the nuke and the delivery system, what were we going to do, wait for the mushroom cloud over a US city. What does it take for Americans to call bull ****.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 10:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A perpetually state of conflict/war is all that will support the MIC that we were warned about fifty odd years ago, now we see the reality of Eisenhower's warning and still, we have denial.

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Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Libya? Syria?

We did are are doing squat in both those places.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 11:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Al Qaida was instrumental in Libya, and is now in Syria. And they've been tearing it up in Iraq too. And there was no al Qaida in Iraq until the US invaded. For the trillions of dollars spent, and thousands of troops dead, al Qaida is stronger today than they were in 2003. But then weakening or destroying al Qaida was never the goal, feeding the MIC was.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 11:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why do Americans have so much trouble with the concept of the middle path? Ignoring problems does not make them go away, and taking extreme measures does not fix them.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 11:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I love that ECO. For all his other policies that one may find questionable, I think Ron Paul would have traveled that middle path.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 1:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 04 2013, 9:45 am)
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And as we did in Libya and are doing in Syria. And Hagel says specifically, that NK has the nuke and the delivery system NOW, while the experts say no. Saddam had the nuke and the delivery system, what were we going to do, wait for the mushroom cloud over a US city. What does it take for Americans to call bull ****.

Very, very poor analogies.

There was no proof Iraq had a nuclear weapon and much evidence they had no active program to build one, whereas NK has exploded actual nukes in underground tests.

So there is no real comparison and the threat is indeed "real" ... though the likelihood of NK actually attempting to launch some kind of attack is uncertain (but they just might be crazy enough to try if things start getting out of hand).

Not sure why you keep mentioning Libya & Syria in the context with Iraq & NK; the wider the net you throw, the less relevance there is to the specific issue being discussed.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 2:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do our secretaries of defense become highly-paid consultants / lobbyists for the defense industry after they leave office?  That can be a motivator.

Separately, I also question if whether the latest barrage of hot air and counter hot air between us and NK actually provides the best smokescreen to move our armaments to Guam, etc. -- conveniently closer to China -- our real objective?

Not saying we should or shouldn't deploy against China -- but am saying this could well be one reason for the rhetoric coming out of DOD.  I just don't buy the "clear threat" to Guam statements now being made.  NK knows such attack will simply invite devastating retaliation.  Even the Soviets themselves never tried any such folly.  But hey, what better pretext to move more of our armaments farther across the Pacific??

And in this regard, I see us as the menace to the world -- again!


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 2:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Apr. 04 2013, 1:53 pm)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Apr. 04 2013, 9:45 am)
QUOTE
And as we did in Libya and are doing in Syria. And Hagel says specifically, that NK has the nuke and the delivery system NOW, while the experts say no. Saddam had the nuke and the delivery system, what were we going to do, wait for the mushroom cloud over a US city. What does it take for Americans to call bull ****.

Very, very poor analogies.

There was no proof Iraq had a nuclear weapon and much evidence they had no active program to build one, whereas NK has exploded actual nukes in underground tests.

So there is no real comparison and the threat is indeed "real" ... though the likelihood of NK actually attempting to launch some kind of attack is uncertain (but they just might be crazy enough to try if things start getting out of hand).

Not sure why you keep mentioning Libya & Syria in the context with Iraq & NK; the wider the net you throw, the less relevance there is to the specific issue being discussed.

Excuse me, I was responding to someone else who cast the net much farther by mentioning al Qaida.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 2:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 04 2013, 2:25 pm)
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Do our secretaries of defense become highly-paid consultants / lobbyists for the defense industry after they leave office?  That can be a motivator.

Separately, I also question if whether the latest barrage of hot air and counter hot air between us and NK actually provides the best smokescreen to move our armaments to Guam, etc. -- conveniently closer to China -- our real objective?

Not saying we should or shouldn't deploy against China -- but am saying this could well be one reason for the rhetoric coming out of DOD.  I just don't buy the "clear threat" to Guam statements now being made.  NK knows such attack will simply invite devastating retaliation.  Even the Soviets themselves never tried any such folly.  But hey, what better pretext to move more of our armaments farther across the Pacific??

And in this regard, I see us as the menace to the world -- again!

+2

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 2:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Taking people at their word "bath America in nuclear fire" seems rather priudent, not some sort of arrogant "menace".

Sadham Hussein's word wasn't taken seriousely by Bush One and look how that turned out.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 2:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Apr. 04 2013, 11:49 am)
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Taking people at their word "bath America in nuclear fire" seems rather priudent, not some sort of arrogant "menace".

Sadham Hussein's word wasn't taken seriousely by Bush One and look how that turned out.

Actually, one needs to put the 'talk' into context.

If China were crazy enough to "bathe America in nuclear fire" -- that's one thing.  But NK?

And that is exactly the problem with Bush, Jr.  By exaggerating the threat of puny Iraq to grotesque proportions -- to fool us Americans mostly -- in order to provide the pretext he needed to shape that part of the world to our liking -- yes, HSF, look how that turned out!


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 2:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The US decision to move 60% of its military assets to westpac, far predates this recent fool speak from North Korea. Ben's analysis above is consistent with Obama's message to Asia from Australia in Nov. 2011

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 3:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 04 2013, 9:36 am)
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"They have nuclear capacity now, they have missile delivery capacity now," Hagel said after a strategy speech at the National Defense University. "We take those threats seriously, we have to take those threats seriously.

Just to nitpick the verbiage, I think that Hagel was not saying that NK has the capability to nuke CONUS. His statement, by my read, is that NK has:
1) nuke capabilities, and,
2) long range missile capabilities.

He clear says "threats" which implies separate concerns instead of "threat" which would imply a nuke missile concern.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tomas @ Apr. 04 2013, 12:06 pm)
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(Montecresto @ Apr. 04 2013, 9:36 am)
QUOTE
"They have nuclear capacity now, they have missile delivery capacity now," Hagel said after a strategy speech at the National Defense University. "We take those threats seriously, we have to take those threats seriously.

Just to nitpick the verbiage, I think that Hagel was not saying that NK has the capability to nuke CONUS. His statement, by my read, is that NK has:
1) nuke capabilities, and,
2) long range missile capabilities.

He clear says "threats" which implies separate concerns instead of "threat" which would imply a nuke missile concern.

Iraq's WMD and "imminent" nuclear capability.  That got us far.

Now, it is NK's very real nuclear threats.  Better cut deeper elsewhere to find more money for defense...


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 3:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tomas @ Apr. 04 2013, 3:06 pm)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Apr. 04 2013, 9:36 am)
QUOTE
"They have nuclear capacity now, they have missile delivery capacity now," Hagel said after a strategy speech at the National Defense University. "We take those threats seriously, we have to take those threats seriously.

Just to nitpick the verbiage, I think that Hagel was not saying that NK has the capability to nuke CONUS. His statement, by my read, is that NK has:
1) nuke capabilities, and,
2) long range missile capabilities.

He clear says "threats" which implies separate concerns instead of "threat" which would imply a nuke missile concern.

That's cool dude, I won't be nitpicky either. Mentioning that North Korea is a very real threat to the United States followed by, they have the necessary long range missiles for delivery should leave no doubt as to his implications.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 3:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

But even if they do have the capability -- the Soviet Union had ten thousand times more capability!  And never used it.  For very good reason.

But hey, still good stuff for scaring up more defense dollars...


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 04 2013, 4:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, I know man. Why...........does this keep happening with such success. Somebody, somewhere really is having big laughs on the gullibility of Americans.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 9:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is a pretty good summation of the history of US policy in Korea, and where it stands now. http://www.salon.com/2013/04/05/north_korea_whats_really_happening/

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