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Topic: The NRA, Syria, Iran and North Korea, ALL say no to Arms Trade Treaty< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 2:11 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yep. NRA joins Syria, Iran and North Korea in opposition to the Arms Trade Treaty

UN adopts it anyway

http://www.motherjones.com/politic....y-obama


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 9:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You forgot these guys in your list.

Republican senators -- joined by at least one Democrat -- ripped the international arms trade treaty approved Tuesday by the U.N. General Assembly, calling it a "non-starter" and vowing to oppose Senate ratification.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politic....at0WKBS


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 9:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Of course that same group defied their own Bob Dole by ripping the UN version of the Americans With Disabilities Act, only because it was the UN.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 9:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My point is that it was conveniently left off "the list".

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 9:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is easy to write laws that will only impact the law abiding.

The challenge is to craft legislation that will impact the criminal class.

The goal of government(s) seems to be nothing more than the disarming of its population.

Controlling criminals is so much harder than controlling the trusting masses.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montecresto said
QUOTE

You forgot these guys in your list.

Republican senators -- joined by at least one Democrat -- ripped the international arms trade treaty approved Tuesday by the U.N. General Assembly, calling it a "non-starter" and vowing to oppose Senate ratification.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politic....at0WKBS


and your point is? That since you're a flack for the NRA you have to do everything possible
to make is seem what they represent that the NRA's positions aren't that extreme by pointing
out that of course Republicans will be in line with the NRA(gee shocker) as well as a few
Democrats(I guess in this case 1)?

Montecresto said
QUOTE

My point is that it was conveniently left off "the list".


conveniently? That implies that I made a conscious decision to leave it out in the OP for
what reason NRA flack?

By your criteria, every time anyone makes a thread and/or uses any link where they leave out
any detail then that means what?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It means nothing. If it was an oversight on your part fine, are you going to add the US senate to your list?

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 05 2013, 1:25 pm)
QUOTE
It means nothing. If it was an oversight on your part fine, are you going to add the US senate to your list?

Ok so if you really think it means nothing then there should be no reason to add it especially since you already mentioned it

Also if it means nothing that why did you mention it?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

also not needed anyway because Republicans always go where the NRA goes so the Republican
position could have been deduced simply based on the NRA's position(article did mention
Ron Paul in regard to this). Of course in the case of that one Democrat, well that was just
one democrat


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I was answering your question! Not suggesting that the senate voting it down means nothing. It means everything, should have been on your list. But then you wanted a slanted, biased and partisan post.


Senate Votes to Keep US Out of UN Arms Trade Treaty

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jonesboro-ar/TODUD8LJ1Q0OJLA8C


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Apr. 05 2013, 7:48 am)
QUOTE
It is easy to write laws that will only impact the law abiding.

The challenge is to craft legislation that will impact the criminal class.

The goal of government(s) seems to be nothing more than the disarming of its population.

Controlling criminals is so much harder than controlling the trusting masses.

That logic would apply to any and all laws.  Habitual speeders ignore speed limits.  Murderers ignore murder and manslaughter laws.  Thieves ignore burglary laws.  Drunk drivers ignore DWI laws. On and on...

By that logic no laws should exist, and no laws need ever be written, because those intent on breaking them will just ignore them anyway.  At least, if you believe that laws shouldn't be written because "the criminal class" won't follow them.

If you have any particular suggestion of what such a "different" law would look like (one that affects the criminal class instead of normal citizens) feel free to outline it.  Otherwise saying "no new law should exist because someone will break it anyway" is just an empty platitude.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montecresto said
QUOTE

I was answering your question! Not suggesting that the senate voting it down means nothing.
It means everything, should have been on your list. But then you wanted a slanted, biased
and partisan post


Dear NRA flack

You say "you wanted a slanted, biased and partisan post" because you're a NRA flack NRA
flack.

So if this is "biased and partisan post" NRA flack, for which party is it biased in favor of?
Since I didn't mention either Republican or Democratic, then according to your line of
argument that would mean I'm biased in favor of both parties which would contradict your
narrative that I'm anti Republican.

Thus we have another dumb stupid line of argumentation from the NRA flack known as
Montecresto


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Take your blood pressure medicine Dennis.     :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

^^ exposed so NRA flack changes the subject

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 3:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not really. I just can see that it upsets you that it's not just the NRA, Iran, Syria and North Korea that oppose UN control of small arms in their countries, but the US senate, too!

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 5:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montecresto said
QUOTE

Wtf. You automatically enjoy your constitutional and bill of rights, period. Qualification is your citizenship


but you've already agreed that commiting some crimes will disqualify you which is another
way of saying there are additional criteria(qualifications) that determine if someone can
excersise "2nd amendment" rights. This isn't a complex idea to understand

Montecresto said
QUOTE

During the course of your life you may behave in such a fashion that society deems you have
forfeited your right. You get that Dennis.


Do you or do you not understand that at that point such a person is NOW disqualified from
exercising their "2nd amendment rights"?

Montecresto said
QUOTE

Your born with your second amendment right, and NOBODY can take it away, save yourself by
committing a crime while exercising your second amendment right.


Therefore once again when you originally said There is NO qualifications for exercise of
the second amendment (or any of the bill of rights) other than ones citizenship, period.

that is a simplistic argument and have essentially contradicted yourself because above,
once again NRA flack, you've just acknowledge there is in fact the additional qualification
based on whether or not someone has committed certain crimes that will disqualify those
individuals.

I think what you mean to say is that by default people are granted "2nd amendment rights"
until they don't meet the additional qualification regarding certain crimes which at that
point would disqualify them. I'm sure you will claim that is what you meant.

Montecresto said
QUOTE

All these frivolous proposed gun laws that seek to restrict everybody, yeah, all those millions of Americans who never have and never will commit a crime with a gun, are UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Go back to civics class!


Like background checks fanatic NRA flack?

which ones are unconstitutional NRA flack fanatic?

Oh and BTW I can't hang around so you can reply as soon as you can instead of waiting until
I've logged out to reply NRA flack.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 6:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Except that it's groups and individuals such as yourself that wish to impose blanket restrictions on everybody. Unless your now prepared to argue the sensible point that restrictions ought to only be placed on offenders. Can you do that Dennis. Or you want to keep up the insane support for gun laws that restrict everybody!

Oh, and the ACLU that you normally love to support will be opposing national gun registry.  :(


OMG. They don't even like universal background checks! You know, civil liberties, gotta love em.

As Senate Democrats struggle to build support for new gun control legislation, the American Civil Liberties Union now says it’s among those who have “serious concerns” about the bill.

Those concerns have the capacity to prove a major setback to Sen. Harry Reid’s current gun bill, which includes language from earlier bills introduced by Sens. Chuck Schumer and Barbara Boxer.

In an exclusive interview with The Daily Caller, a top lobbyist for the ACLU announced that the group thinks Reid’s current gun bill could threaten both privacy rights and civil liberties.

The inclusion of universal background checks — the poll-tested lynchpin of most Democratic proposals — “raises two significant concerns,” the ACLU’s Chris Calabrese told TheDC Wednesday.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013....d4VUDJ6


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 9:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Apr. 05 2013, 12:41 pm)
QUOTE

(Ron. @ Apr. 05 2013, 7:48 am)
QUOTE
It is easy to write laws that will only impact the law abiding.

The challenge is to craft legislation that will impact the criminal class.

The goal of government(s) seems to be nothing more than the disarming of its population.

Controlling criminals is so much harder than controlling the trusting masses.

That logic would apply to any and all laws.  Habitual speeders ignore speed limits.  Murderers ignore murder and manslaughter laws.  Thieves ignore burglary laws.  Drunk drivers ignore DWI laws. On and on...

By that logic no laws should exist, and no laws need ever be written, because those intent on breaking them will just ignore them anyway.  At least, if you believe that laws shouldn't be written because "the criminal class" won't follow them.

If you have any particular suggestion of what such a "different" law would look like (one that affects the criminal class instead of normal citizens) feel free to outline it.  Otherwise saying "no new law should exist because someone will break it anyway" is just an empty platitude.

I reject your premise that any of these background/registration/bans would have kept any of these mass murderers from committing mass murder.  

Instead the Democrats have attempted to parley the tragedies into momentum to attain their gun control aims. "You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste"Rahm Emanuel

Your analogy fails in that the various laws being suggested don't address the actual problem of psychopaths bent on mayhem.

They limit, restrict and create other burdens on folks who have never broken the law. Non Sequitur legislation.

Those who are the most ignorant about guns seem to be the ones who spout the most platitudes about reasonable restrictions and other nonsensical drivel. See the first AWB for an act in futility that made people feel better.  

At best the legislation proposed is "feel good" legislation that won't change criminal activity and will harass the innocent, at worse it is thinly disguised ideologically driven gun grabbing using a crisis as cover.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montecresto Said
QUOTE

Except that it's groups and individuals such as yourself that wish to impose blanket restrictions on everybody.
Unless your now prepared to argue the sensible point that restrictions ought to only be placed on offenders.
Can you do that Dennis. Or you want to keep up the insane support for gun laws that restrict everybody!


Like which law in particular NRA flack? Once again, NRA flack, background checks?

Montecresto Said
QUOTE

Oh, and the ACLU that you normally love to support will be opposing national gun registry.  :(

OMG. They don't even like universal background checks! You know, civil liberties, gotta love em.

As Senate Democrats struggle to build support for new gun control legislation, the American Civil
Liberties Union now says it’s among those who have “serious concerns” about the bill.

Those concerns have the capacity to prove a major setback to Sen. Harry Reid’s current gun bill,
which includes language from earlier bills introduced by Sens. Chuck Schumer and Barbara Boxer.

In an exclusive interview with The Daily Caller, a top lobbyist for the ACLU announced that the
group thinks Reid’s current gun bill could threaten both privacy rights and civil liberties.

The inclusion of universal background checks — the poll-tested lynchpin of most Democratic proposals
— “raises two significant concerns,” the ACLU’s Chris Calabrese told TheDC Wednesday.


^^ another example the NRA flack's credibility takes a hit


You claim that the ACLU opposes a "national gun registry"(as if background checks = "national gun registry"
and as if this bill = universal background checks) when in the very source you use it says


Calabrese wouldn’t characterize the current legislation’s record-keeping provision as a “national
gun registry'


You claim that that the ACLU doesn't like "like universal background checks" which is, surprise surprise, a
total misrepresentation of ACLU's position because in the very source you used it says


Calabrese — a privacy lobbyist — was first careful to note that the ACLU doesn’t strictly oppose universal
background checks for gun purchases. “If you’re going to require a background check, we think it should be
effective,” Calabrese explained.


So apparently dishonesty is a core part of your posting style. With in that context are you really
not a member of the NRA like you claimed? Its a rhetoric question because again you answering that
question assumes whatever answer you give really is the truth but frankly, NRA flack, I wouldn't
trust anything you say given your record of dishonesty in this forum


Oh and on other thing, In the "LAWRENCE O'DONNELL humiliates NRA flack" thread you said the following

Commit a crime with a gun and forfeit the right.

During the course of your life you may behave in such a fashion that society deems you have
forfeited your right.


Your born with your second amendment right, and NOBODY can take it away, save yourself by
committing a crime while exercising your second amendment right.


Yet, NRA flack, you're obviously against background checks but of course without background checks
then there would be no way to prevent the very same criminals, you claim don't exercising the 2nd
amendment so therefore you essentially don't want to prevent a psychotic mass murder from getting
guns.

So in other words when you said,in that "LAWRENCE O'DONNELL humiliates NRA flack" thread, "Commit a
crime with a gun and forfeit the right.", it was nothing more than empty rhetoric since you at least
don't care enough about "Commit a crime with a gun and forfeit the right." to want to enforce it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In response to Ron's post:

Nothing answer from the do nothing know nothing fantasy world of the libertarian crowd.

Most guns start life as legally manufactured weapons. Then, under our current joke of a system the dissipate into the hands of criminals. The insane, drug gangs and so on.

It's a joke to pretend that we can and shouldn't even try to do anything about this flow of weapons from legal to illegal.

This absolute bs attitude reeks of failed conservative BS that is attempting to drag America into the gutter.

The most disturbing part for me is our corrupt political process can be bought off by a freak show like the NRA - at a pretty low price.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Apr. 05 2013, 1:41 pm)
QUOTE

(Ron. @ Apr. 05 2013, 7:48 am)
QUOTE
It is easy to write laws that will only impact the law abiding.

The challenge is to craft legislation that will impact the criminal class.

The goal of government(s) seems to be nothing more than the disarming of its population.

Controlling criminals is so much harder than controlling the trusting masses.

That logic would apply to any and all laws.  Habitual speeders ignore speed limits.  Murderers ignore murder and manslaughter laws.  Thieves ignore burglary laws.  Drunk drivers ignore DWI laws. On and on...

By that logic no laws should exist, and no laws need ever be written, because those intent on breaking them will just ignore them anyway.  At least, if you believe that laws shouldn't be written because "the criminal class" won't follow them.

If you have any particular suggestion of what such a "different" law would look like (one that affects the criminal class instead of normal citizens) feel free to outline it.  Otherwise saying "no new law should exist because someone will break it anyway" is just an empty platitude.

The real issue here is a bunch of juvenile gun owners (a minority, as most want better background checks at least) who refuse to accept any responsibility that comes with the freedoms afforded to them.

They want the rest for us to pay the price for their child-like approach to life.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Nothing answer from the do nothing know nothing fantasy world of the libertarian crowd.

Most guns start life as legally manufactured weapons. Then, under our current joke of a system the dissipate into the hands of criminals. The insane, drug gangs and so on.

It's a joke to pretend that we can and shouldn't even try to do anything about this flow of weapons from legal to illegal.

This absolute bs attitude reeks of failed conservative BS that is attempting to drag America into the gutter.

The most disturbing part for me is our corrupt political process can be bought off by a freak show like the NRA - at a pretty low price.


We know you want government background checks on all gun transfers, full registration of every gun, semi-auto firearm restrictions, magazine capacity restrictions, allotments of how many guns and on how much ammo you can own.

And the American people reject what you want.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ron Said
QUOTE

I reject your premise that any of these background/registration/bans would have kept any of these mass murderers from committing mass murder.  


I didn't see that as GB's premise. His premise as I understood is that measuring laws in terms of whether the
criminal class follows them is absurd.

Beyond that when you say "is easy to write laws that will only impact the law abiding." you're saying
laws in general don't impact the criminal class?

Your statement " The goal of government(s) seems to be nothing more than the disarming of its population."
is absurd. What you've been reading a lot of right-wing/quasi libertarian blogs?

Ron Said
QUOTE

Instead the Democrats have attempted to parley the tragedies into momentum to attain their gun control aims. "You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste"Rahm Emanuel


No one takes a backside int parleying tragedies than Republicans(witness how many times Republicans, especially
back in the 2004 election, exploited 911) but want to know something. Everytime one of these guns tragedies
takes place how many times is the response to making gun control reforms "this is not the right time"? So whatever
anyone tries to enact gun reform there will always be some rhetoric narrative such as "parley the tragedies into
momentum" from your side on


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Apr. 05 2013, 10:15 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Nothing answer from the do nothing know nothing fantasy world of the libertarian crowd.

Most guns start life as legally manufactured weapons. Then, under our current joke of a system the dissipate into the hands of criminals. The insane, drug gangs and so on.

It's a joke to pretend that we can and shouldn't even try to do anything about this flow of weapons from legal to illegal.

This absolute bs attitude reeks of failed conservative BS that is attempting to drag America into the gutter.

The most disturbing part for me is our corrupt political process can be bought off by a freak show like the NRA - at a pretty low price.


We know you want government background checks on all gun transfers, full registration of every gun, semi-auto firearm restrictions, magazine capacity restrictions, allotments of how many guns and on how much ammo you can own.

And the American people reject what you want.

HUH?

background checks?

What does polling data tell us about where the American people are on background checks?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 05 2013, 9:26 pm)
QUOTE
Ron Said
QUOTE

I reject your premise that any of these background/registration/bans would have kept any of these mass murderers from committing mass murder.  


I didn't see that as GB's premise.

Actually you are correct.

He did not make that case, I took it as implied but he certainly didn't say that.


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(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 05 2013, 9:28 pm)
QUOTE
HUH?

background checks?

What does polling data tell us about where the American people are on background checks?

The devil is in the details.

What the Democrats are reaching for and what the average person thinks of when they hear background check are two different animals.


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Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Apr. 05 2013, 10:34 pm)
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(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 05 2013, 9:28 pm)
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HUH?

background checks?

What does polling data tell us about where the American people are on background checks?

The devil is in the details.

What the Democrats are reaching for and what the average person thinks of when they hear background check are two different animals.

Ok Ron

prove it

Show some polling data


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 10:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

polls on background checks

https://www.google.com/search?....bih=612

Americans are strongly on the side of Democrats on background checks and strongly against the
NRA leadership and Republicans.

Its amazing that this isn't common knowledge and that some people(almost always right-wingers)
think background checks are unpopular. I guess this is another example of the right-wing bubble


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 11:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ron Said
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I reject your premise that any of these background/registration/bans would have kept any of these mass murderers from committing mass murder.


If a ban would have included the newtown Bushmaster AR-15 rifle then the killers Mom wouldn't have
had that gun(unless she decided to get one illegally but how likely would that have been?) then the
killer wouldn't have had that gun to go on his killing spree(unless somehow this reclusive killer
who apparently never left his house decided to purchase one illegally)

Ron Said
QUOTE

Your analogy fails in that the various laws being suggested don't address the actual problem of psychopaths bent on mayhem.


Well the issue isn't just psychotic mass murders but how do you know this isn't the case?

You do realize that various legislation proposals, like from Obama, haven't just focused
on gun control but mental health too do you not?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 06 2013, 12:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Apr. 05 2013, 10:15 pm)
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Nothing answer from the do nothing know nothing fantasy world of the libertarian crowd.

Most guns start life as legally manufactured weapons. Then, under our current joke of a system the dissipate into the hands of criminals. The insane, drug gangs and so on.

It's a joke to pretend that we can and shouldn't even try to do anything about this flow of weapons from legal to illegal.

This absolute bs attitude reeks of failed conservative BS that is attempting to drag America into the gutter.

The most disturbing part for me is our corrupt political process can be bought off by a freak show like the NRA - at a pretty low price.


We know you want government background checks on all gun transfers, full registration of every gun, semi-auto firearm restrictions, magazine capacity restrictions, allotments of how many guns and on how much ammo you can own.

And the American people reject what you want.

No, we have a small bunch of extremists determined to refuse all compromise and bully the majority of Americans into doing nothing. Almost the exact opposite of the alternative reality you appear to have created.
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