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Topic: The Grand Bargain?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 12:21 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not much detail yet, but Obama is offering a compromise to reduce spending in social security and medicare -- in exchange for increasing taxation of the rich.  Together, they will cut an estimated $1.8 trillion over 10 years.

More here.  What do y'all think?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 12:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.politico.com/story....hp=t2_3

Dead on arrival apparently.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 12:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Surprise, surprise...

I am in favor of cutting social security -- I remember reading in various different places that folks up to now have generally received much more than they put in -- even after adjusting for inflation, interest growth, etc.  The program's original age threshold (65) was set when that was the average life expectancy!  We all want more for less -- but the math is unsustainable -- and unfair to the younger generation.

I've also read that our taxes are relatively low compared to many other industrialized, advanced nations.  I believe -- within reason -- that the rich can (and should) shoulder more.

OTOH, seems like the current atmosphere is just not conducive to moderates.  Boehner was quick to shoot down Obama's compromise.  But I think if he hadn't, many on the Democrat side will decry the cutback to the elderly as well -- regardless of the math...


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 12:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Chained CPI has been on the table before.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Boehner just rejected it and truthfully the Republicans won't touch SS and Medicare as it supports their white elderly base (and their estates when you think a little deeper about it).  

That's actually where the savings really are, btw, so the rest of this is a made for TV drama (as least watching Kim K, you get some booty ... well, a little more than some).


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes odd to have Boehner save SS.  While Medicare has a part in the deficit, SS does not.  SS needs a fix longer term (most likely) but that is another issue.

Funny to hear now "that SS pays out more than folks put in as a compliant". I remember when folks were arguing they could do better in a 401(k).

Still one has to put things in balance and recognize the baby bust and increase in longevity.  Still SS allows for CPI which a truly balanced system really could not do.  Also SS as a percentage of GDP is not in as big a problem as some say.

Medicare is the real issue, or real increasing medical costs.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

During the administration of Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower, a 92 percent marginal income tax rate for top earners in the United States remained from the previous administration of Harry S. Truman. At the time, the highest tax bracket was for income over $400,000.
This was nearly the highest tax rate for top earners in the century, just under the 94 percent rate for income over $200,000 instated during World War II under Franklin D. Roosevelt's presidency.
In 1954, the 92 percent marginal rate decreased to 91 percent under Eisenhower. The maximum tax on long-term capital gains was 25 percent -- a rate that remained in place for a decade.

http://news.yahoo.com/eisenho....ws.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Always boggles my mind why those who detest "socialist medicine" would embrace Medicare?  ???

The two elephants in the budget surgery room are (1) social spending and (2) defense spending.  No one can solve our budget deficit problem without working on both components.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 05 2013, 12:28 pm)
QUOTE
Surprise, surprise...

I am in favor of cutting social security -- I remember reading in various different places that folks up to now have generally received much more than they put in -- even after adjusting for inflation, interest growth, etc.  The program's original age threshold (65) was set when that was the average life expectancy!  We all want more for less -- but the math is unsustainable -- and unfair to the younger generation.

I've also read that our taxes are relatively low compared to many other industrialized, advanced nations.  I believe -- within reason -- that the rich can (and should) shoulder more.

OTOH, seems like the current atmosphere is just not conducive to moderates.  Boehner was quick to shoot down Obama's compromise.  But I think if he hadn't, many on the Democrat side will decry the cutback to the elderly as well -- regardless of the math...

It should have just automatically followed the increased life expectancy age throughout the years, then we wouldn't need this heavy discussion now.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 05 2013, 10:13 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 05 2013, 12:28 pm)
QUOTE
Surprise, surprise...

I am in favor of cutting social security -- I remember reading in various different places that folks up to now have generally received much more than they put in -- even after adjusting for inflation, interest growth, etc.  The program's original age threshold (65) was set when that was the average life expectancy!  We all want more for less -- but the math is unsustainable -- and unfair to the younger generation.

I've also read that our taxes are relatively low compared to many other industrialized, advanced nations.  I believe -- within reason -- that the rich can (and should) shoulder more.

OTOH, seems like the current atmosphere is just not conducive to moderates.  Boehner was quick to shoot down Obama's compromise.  But I think if he hadn't, many on the Democrat side will decry the cutback to the elderly as well -- regardless of the math...

It should have just automatically followed the increased life expectancy age throughout the years, then we wouldn't need this heavy discussion now.

It's too easy for politicians to write blank checks -- instant gratitude from voters -- and pawn the liability off to future generations!  The GOP is constantly under attack for being the 'Party of No' -- and well deserved -- because of its own hypocrisy.  But even with our perennial budget deficits -- far fewer complain or caution against the 'Party of Yes'!!

I do give Obama credit for trying to solve the problem from all sides.

At 52 and a baby boomer, my generation will be the one to "enjoy" cutbacks -- and X's and Y's will likely fare even worse.   :angry:


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yep.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 1:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 05 2013, 11:13 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 05 2013, 12:28 pm)
QUOTE
Surprise, surprise...

I am in favor of cutting social security -- I remember reading in various different places that folks up to now have generally received much more than they put in -- even after adjusting for inflation, interest growth, etc.  The program's original age threshold (65) was set when that was the average life expectancy!  We all want more for less -- but the math is unsustainable -- and unfair to the younger generation.

I've also read that our taxes are relatively low compared to many other industrialized, advanced nations.  I believe -- within reason -- that the rich can (and should) shoulder more.

OTOH, seems like the current atmosphere is just not conducive to moderates.  Boehner was quick to shoot down Obama's compromise.  But I think if he hadn't, many on the Democrat side will decry the cutback to the elderly as well -- regardless of the math...

It should have just automatically followed the increased life expectancy age throughout the years,...

I'd say put part of the younger cohorts contribution into a stock index or use it as more of an emergency annuity as for most elderly financial decision-making dwindles (financial swindles are one of Florida's growth industries btw).  

The Republicans in the Reagan era would have jumped on the Grand Bargain and then gone back for more in a later election.  These guys just want the drama and their 15 minute allotment on the boob tube.  Again, if no changes in Medicare and SS, there's better drama on TV.

Speaking of which, is that Kim K in a sheer neglige or is there a full moon out tonight?  ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 3:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So.....you agree or disagree with the quote?

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Chained CPI, flawed idea

And I think retirees get the lessor of CPI or wage growth, which protects the funding at least as far as that issue , not on longevity or birth rates etc.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 3:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 05 2013, 1:13 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 05 2013, 12:28 pm)
QUOTE
Surprise, surprise...

I am in favor of cutting social security -- I remember reading in various different places that folks up to now have generally received much more than they put in -- even after adjusting for inflation, interest growth, etc.  The program's original age threshold (65) was set when that was the average life expectancy!  We all want more for less -- but the math is unsustainable -- and unfair to the younger generation.

I've also read that our taxes are relatively low compared to many other industrialized, advanced nations.  I believe -- within reason -- that the rich can (and should) shoulder more.

OTOH, seems like the current atmosphere is just not conducive to moderates.  Boehner was quick to shoot down Obama's compromise.  But I think if he hadn't, many on the Democrat side will decry the cutback to the elderly as well -- regardless of the math...

It should have just automatically followed the increased life expectancy age throughout the years, then we wouldn't need this heavy discussion now.

Good point.

One reason might be that few in 1935 could have foreseen the factors that allow folks to live longer.

Even in the 1940's and 1950's, I don't remember anyone ever mention the term "increased life expectancy".


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 4:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Money's Worth

It isn't clear if this adds in the employer contribution to SS or not.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 05 2013, 4:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

The problem with automatically factoring increased life expectancy other than political factors, is it is only one part of the problem.  For instance one might not be able to work or work as long once one becomes age 65 or find work.  One might not be able to get a disability benefit.  Some say that this part of the problem was considered to some degree either with the raising of the retirement age or the increase in contribution rates.  That still leaves the problem of the drop in birth rates, though if GDP continues to grow it is perhaps not such a big problem after all, not unlike if most or all jobs become automated.

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