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Topic: Gabby Giffords: Join the fight for safer U.S.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 4:28 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I see that the legislative, and media, battle for laws that make guns safer in the hands of private citizens is starting to heat up.  I think that it may become a major issue for the 2016 election, when a new President gets elected with a clear mandate for effective change, then we will begin to get somewhere.

Gabby Giffords is doing her part, and she will always get plenty of media access which makes her voice so much more effective:

I think about patience every day as I continue to regain my speech and the mobility I lost after I was shot in the head two years ago, while meeting with my constituents in the parking lot of grocery store in my district.

I think about patience and determination, because I still wake up every day wanting to make the world a better place.

But lately I’m not feeling too patient toward senators and representatives who are listening to the misinformation that’s out there about universal background checks instead of to their constituents, and saying they may not support common sense solutions to ending gun violence.

What are they waiting for? Ninety percent of Americans support universal background checks, which will be debated soon. Seventy-four percent of NRA members support background checks. Seventy-two percent of hunters support background checks, the Bull Moose Society reported this week. I can’t remember a time when this many Americans spoke with such a united voice in favor of anything.

And yet, some leaders are suggesting they might not listen to our voices. They repeat old scare tactics, like that there will be a gun registry that could take our guns away from us. My husband Mark and I are gun owners, and we know that’s not true. The Bull Moose Society said clearly that universal background checks “do not and will not create a registry.”

What they will do is create one fair system for all gun buyers, instead of the giant loophole we have now. Right now, we have one system where responsible gun owners take a background check — my husband, Mark, took one just last month, and it took 5 minutes and 36 seconds. I remember waiting a lot longer than that for the subway to take me to my office when I lived in New York City! And then we have a second system for those who don’t want to take a background check. Those people — criminals, or people suffering from mental illness, like the young man who shot me — can buy as many guns as they want on the Internet or at a gun show, no questions asked.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion....1309920


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 4:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gabby Giffords is doing her part?  Only after she herself got hit.

Don't get me wrong, I am not faulting her per se.  Too many of us don't feel sufficient empathy for others... until we ourselves get hit.  I wish her well -- but the "me and my rights oriented" society will make meaningful gun control next to impossible.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 4:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 08 2013, 1:41 pm)
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Gabby Giffords is doing her part?  Only after she herself got hit.

Don't get me wrong, I am not faulting her per se.  Too many of us don't feel sufficient empathy for others... until we ourselves get hit.  I wish her well -- but the "me and my rights oriented" society will make meaningful gun control next to impossible.

"Only after she herself got hit."

Factually incorrect.

She supported similar issues a long time ago:
"Indicate which principles you support concerning gun issues.
Ban the sale or transfer of semi-automatic guns, except those used for hunting.
Maintain and strengthen the enforcement of existing state restrictions on the purchase and possession of guns.
Allow citizens to carry concealed guns.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks on guns.
Require background checks of gun buyers at gun shows."

Source: 2000 Arizona State National Political Awareness Test , Nov 1, 2000

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Gabby_Giffords_Gun_Control.htm
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 5:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Meanwhile in Connecticutt, the campaign continues to grow and support for common sense safety for our guns increases week by week:

Responding to criticism from the National Rifle Association over Connecticut's new gun laws, Gov. Dan Malloy argued the pro-gun group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, is simply blowing smoke.

"Wayne reminds me of the clowns at the circus - they get the most attention. That's what he's paid to do," Malloy said Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union."



The Democratic governor on Thursday signed into law some of the nation's strictest gun regulations, following the state's devastating school shooting in December in Newtown, which left 20 children and six adults dead.

The new Connecticut laws include the addition of more than 100 weapons to the state’s list of banned assault weapons - including the semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle, one of the firearms used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre. The law also bans the sale of magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition, as well as armor-piercing bullets. Buyers will need a certificate to buy ammunition.

It also requires background checks for all gun purchases


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013....s-clown


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 5:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What do you think of her four votes on gun-related bills?  Click here.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 6:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Apr. 08 2013, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE
I see that the legislative, and media, battle for laws that make guns safer in the hands of private citizens is starting to heat up.  I think that it may become a major issue for the 2016 election, when a new President gets elected with a clear mandate for effective change, then we will begin to get somewhere.

Gabby Giffords is doing her part, and she will always get plenty of media access which makes her voice so much more effective:

I think about patience every day as I continue to regain my speech and the mobility I lost after I was shot in the head two years ago, while meeting with my constituents in the parking lot of grocery store in my district.

I think about patience and determination, because I still wake up every day wanting to make the world a better place.

But lately I’m not feeling too patient toward senators and representatives who are listening to the misinformation that’s out there about universal background checks instead of to their constituents, and saying they may not support common sense solutions to ending gun violence.

What are they waiting for? Ninety percent of Americans support universal background checks, which will be debated soon. Seventy-four percent of NRA members support background checks. Seventy-two percent of hunters support background checks, the Bull Moose Society reported this week. I can’t remember a time when this many Americans spoke with such a united voice in favor of anything.

And yet, some leaders are suggesting they might not listen to our voices. They repeat old scare tactics, like that there will be a gun registry that could take our guns away from us. My husband Mark and I are gun owners, and we know that’s not true. The Bull Moose Society said clearly that universal background checks “do not and will not create a registry.”

What they will do is create one fair system for all gun buyers, instead of the giant loophole we have now. Right now, we have one system where responsible gun owners take a background check — my husband, Mark, took one just last month, and it took 5 minutes and 36 seconds. I remember waiting a lot longer than that for the subway to take me to my office when I lived in New York City! And then we have a second system for those who don’t want to take a background check. Those people — criminals, or people suffering from mental illness, like the young man who shot me — can buy as many guns as they want on the Internet or at a gun show, no questions asked.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion....1309920

Yea, doing her part like the hypocritical, elitist fake phony she is;

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013....-photos

What a FRAUD!!


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 08 2013, 6:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As above, given Gabby's voting record, she started really caring only after she herself got shot.  Reminds me of that soldier mom Cindy Sheehan who started to decry against the war only after her  precious son got killed.

I wouldn't call either a fraud -- but certainly empathy is not their strong suit -- and thus both come up short as credible, caring people.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 09 2013, 8:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Blatant propaganda by the biggest FRAUD in Obama's communist gun grabbing agenda arsenal.
It's so interesting watching this complete fool shooting at targets mounted on top of rocks that could so easily ricochet bullets back and wound or kill himself, his mother or his FRAUD wife! The stupidity and audacity of of these communist, socialist FRAUDS is beyond the pale!

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitba....Culture


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 09 2013, 9:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is unclear to me if she is really pushing the anti-gun agenda or being used as a puppet to push the anti-gun agenda

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 09 2013, 9:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 08 2013, 6:35 pm)
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 Reminds me of that soldier mom Cindy Sheehan who started to decry against the war only after her  precious son got killed.

And vanished along with all of the other war protestors as soon as a democrat was elected :laugh:

I am sure they will resume when we get a republican president


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2013, 6:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news....1uWEpfa

So in a nutshell

Glock with 17 rd mag = good

Same Glock with 33 round magazine = evil

These people are simply cashing in on the tragedy in CT

They are deluded if they think they have any credibility with firearms owners


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2013, 6:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Actually, as a very highly educated and articulate public figure, Gabby, with her husband Mark, is not advocating "gun grabbing" in any way.  They are both long time gun owners who want to preserve their private rights to gun ownership, just as I do, but they recognize that we need serious improvements in gun saftey features, gun ownership education, and gun registration and licensing.

All this ridiculous screaming, running in circles and crying that the sky is falling comes from gun nuts, being supported and encouraged by the NRA.  They sound like a bunch of hysterical little girls crying wolf because a mouse ran across the floor!  LOL

Let's talk about the improvements in safety that could be practical, and cost effective, and would actually preserve our right to own guns in the long run, rather than screaming epithets about communist and socialist ghosts that have nothing whatever to do with this subject.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2013, 6:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Apr. 10 2013, 6:31 pm)
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All this ridiculous screaming, running in circles and crying that the sky is falling comes from gun nuts, being supported and encouraged by the NRA.  They sound like a bunch of hysterical little girls crying wolf because a mouse ran across the floor!  LOL

That's impossible to have that conversation when using those types of words!

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2013, 8:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 08 2013, 5:35 pm)
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As above, given Gabby's voting record, she started really caring only after she herself got shot.  Reminds me of that soldier mom Cindy Sheehan who started to decry against the war only after her  precious son got killed.

I wouldn't call either a fraud -- but certainly empathy is not their strong suit -- and thus both come up short as credible, caring people.

Look, Ben: "empathy" isn't anyone's "strong suit". Usually, it takes getting some "skin in the game" to bring home the vivid reality of what mere words truly mean. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it's not all that unusual. It's a very rare individual indeed who can truly feel someone else's pain.

You yourself are not exempt from this failing. Simply check any of the multiple threads on abortion for your use of the term "murderer", for instance.

None of us are all that empathetic until we are truly "in the game".
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 9:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Keep up the lies and double standards Gabby;

"Washington DC - -(Ammoland.com)- In an April 7 op-ed in the NY Daily News, former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords wrote that right now people who “don’t want to take a background check” can “buy as many guns as they want on the internet or at a gun show, no questions asked.”
“Those people — criminals, or people suffering from mental illness, like the young man who shot me — can buy as many guns as they want on the Internet or at a gun show, no questions asked.”
The claim about using the Internet to get around background checks is false, as Breitbart News has demonstrated numerous times in the past."


"But we must remember–Jarod Loughner did go through a background check when he bought his Glock 9mm handgun at Sportsman’s Warehouse in Tucson, AZ on Nov. 30, 2012"

http://www.ammoland.com/2013....A01G7ob


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 10:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 08 2013, 6:35 pm)
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As above, given Gabby's voting record, she started really caring only after she herself got shot.  Reminds me of that soldier mom Cindy Sheehan who started to decry against the war only after her  precious son got killed.

So, forming a strong opinion or getting involved or even changing your mind after acquiring some personal experience somehow makes the initiative less valid?  Because, what, their motives are selfish?  Really??

While it may not always be obvious or as well-publicized, a lot, if not most, significant progress in policy/legal reform come from "victim" advocates.  Our current drunk-driving laws, missing children laws, etc. all resulted from victims and their families pushing for reform.

If I'm interpretting your post correctly, it comes off as being pretty self-righteous to me.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 10:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The questions is did she change her mind or is she cashing in on the gun control  issue. Notice that she and her husband formed their own organization rather than donating their "celebrity" to one of the existing anti gun groups. As I said before it is still unclear to me if she is actually driving the bus or just riding along.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 11:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Apr. 11 2013, 7:22 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 08 2013, 6:35 pm)
QUOTE
As above, given Gabby's voting record, she started really caring only after she herself got shot.  Reminds me of that soldier mom Cindy Sheehan who started to decry against the war only after her  precious son got killed.

So, forming a strong opinion or getting involved or even changing your mind after acquiring some personal experience somehow makes the initiative less valid?  Because, what, their motives are selfish?  Really??

While it may not always be obvious or as well-publicized, a lot, if not most, significant progress in policy/legal reform come from "victim" advocates.  Our current drunk-driving laws, missing children laws, etc. all resulted from victims and their families pushing for reform.

If I'm interpretting your post correctly, it comes off as being pretty self-righteous to me.

You are entitled to your views.

But I just find it painful -- how people generally don't care about what's happening to others -- until they themselves become 'victims'.  Then, it's suddenly the most important thing to them!

Maybe "my enemy's enemy" is my friend and all that -- and we just need to take in all the allies we've got this day and age.   Fine.  But as I mentioned, Gifford was not a particularly caring person re. gun control before she herself got victimized.

Did you see her voting record where guns were involved?  See my post #5.

And reading the voluminous  gun threads here -- quite a few have little empathy either -- and likely won't change their minds unless (heaven forbid) they or their loved ones are victimized.  It's just so much about "them and their rights".  Sigh...


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 11:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Apr. 11 2013, 7:40 am)
QUOTE
The questions is did she change her mind or is she cashing in on the gun control  issue. Notice that she and her husband formed their own organization rather than donating their "celebrity" to one of the existing anti gun groups. As I said before it is still unclear to me if she is actually driving the bus or just riding along.

I don't think she is cashing in at all -- just ego driven.  This happened to ME, OMG, so it's now TERRIBLE and we can't have this happen to others anymore.

Dubious motivation -- it had to take THAT MUCH to finally turn this woman around -- but at least she's turned around finally.

Credit for that?  No.  Only a real monster could be shot and still couldn't care less about others.  No credit to her just because she isn't totally unfeeling.

Credit is given to those who haven't suffered but could manage to see the suffering in others -- and even more credit to those who then try to change things.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 12:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 11:54 am)
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 It's just so much about "them and their rights".  Sigh...

I politely disagree Ben.

Look at the big picture here. A guaranteed Constitutional right is not just under assault, but aggressively being pursued to take that right completely away from you by any and all means possible. No matter how underhanded or coerced the means are. The force behind this crusade is using a most hideous and heinous act (Sandy Hook) to leverage this most despicable agenda. That in itself should be telling. Why haven't they been this strong in their zeal with the deaths of the children in the ghettos of this country that has been going on for a long time? Because they know white and pretty dead children from rich people in Connecticut will get the their agenda pushed better. These dead children are just props for them and their goals of a socialist nanny state.

If this constitutional right is stripped away, what is next Ben?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 11:54 am)
QUOTE
But I just find it painful -- how people generally don't care about what's happening to others -- until they themselves become 'victims'.  Then, it's suddenly the most important thing to them!

Most of the time, I don't think it's about not caring and much more about not understanding or realizing, or just having made the wrong assumptions.

Case and point.  In all your arguments regarding abortion, you paint women as "just an incubator" and willing to casually choose to have an abortion willy-nilly at any point in their pregnancy.  As a man and one who isn't married and doesn't have any children, I think you just really don't understand.  But I also don't think it's because you don't care or haven't thought it through.  I'm not saying that you would change your mind about abortion rights but I do think that personal experience would make you more empathetic.

I'm hoping you take the above in the spirit its being  given.  Gabby Giffords suffered a HORRIFIC ordeal to arrive at where she is now.  In the same token, have you considered what it would feel like to be a parent who *proudly* sent their child off to war, only to understand later the painful reality of losing that child?  Of course it's become the most important thing to them.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 12:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Apr. 11 2013, 9:49 am)
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In the same token, have you considered what it would feel like to be a parent who *proudly* sent their child off to war, only to understand later the painful reality of losing that child?  Of course it's become the most important thing to them.

Too bad 70% of Americans supported an invasion and occupation of a country that they knew little about and cared even less! Too bad that so many couldn't care enough about the pain suffered by fathers and mothers in Iraq -- until the lives of their own sons and daughters were wasted!  And now, we have the drones, which we would never tolerate being used by any foreign power over our sky! To me, the lack of empathy in our society -- to this degree -- is actually obscene.  Very, very sad.

Did you read up on Gifford's voting record, Tigerfan?


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(Buggyboo @ Apr. 11 2013, 9:33 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 11:54 am)
QUOTE
 It's just so much about "them and their rights".  Sigh...

I politely disagree Ben.

Look at the big picture here. A guaranteed Constitutional right is not just under assault, but aggressively being pursued to take that right completely away from you by any and all means possible. No matter how underhanded or coerced the means are. The force behind this crusade is using a most hideous and heinous act (Sandy Hook) to leverage this most despicable agenda. That in itself should be telling. Why haven't they been this strong in their zeal with the deaths of the children in the ghettos of this country that has been going on for a long time? Because they know white and pretty dead children from rich people in Connecticut will get the their agenda pushed better. These dead children are just props for them and their goals of a socialist nanny state.

If this constitutional right is stripped away, what is next Ben?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Buggy:

May I politely say that you have just reconfirmed what I wrote about our society today -- my rights and the defense of my rights are just so much more important than the deaths of anybody out there.

I am not anti-gun per se -- and in any case, all guns are not the same.  I believe that crazy people determined to kill will find ways to kill -- guns or no guns.  But I also believe that guns -- like any effective tools -- can be leveraged to more devastating scale when used by the wrong people.

So for me, to minimize future deaths, I am willing to give up my legal right to own assault type weapons.  So why should responsible people (like you and me) curtail their rights?  Because they care about the lives of strangers.  It's called empathy.

I do realize it's one thing to voluntarily abstain from exercising our rights fully -- and quite another to have the right partly taken away.  I just wish more people could do so voluntarily...


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 1:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 12:58 pm)
QUOTE

(TigerFan @ Apr. 11 2013, 9:49 am)
QUOTE
In the same token, have you considered what it would feel like to be a parent who *proudly* sent their child off to war, only to understand later the painful reality of losing that child?  Of course it's become the most important thing to them.

Too bad 70% of Americans supported an invasion and occupation of a country that they knew little about and cared even less! Too bad that so many couldn't care enough about the pain suffered by fathers and mothers in Iraq -- until the lives of their own sons and daughters were wasted!  And now, we have the drones, which we would never tolerate being used by any foreign power over our sky! To me, the lack of empathy in our society -- to this degree -- is actually obscene.  Very, very sad.

Did you read up on Gifford's voting record, Tigerfan?

Oh, I don't disagree with you about how little people think about things that don't directly affect them.  But I don't think you can simply write it off to not caring.  Without personal experience and exposure, they've simply formed their views based on what they've been told or taught.  And when the information comes from people they trust or look up to, it doesn't occur to them to question it.

But this is true of ALL of us, including you.  We all have our ignorant blind spots.

For me, however, anyone who overcomes a personal tragedy and then uses it publically toward making something good for others gets my respect and admiration, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

Yes, I'm aware of Gabby Gifford's voting record.  She was born and raised in Arizona and her previous position on firearms doesn't surprise me.  While her current position is obviously closer to my views, I would never have wanted her to go through what she did in order to have a change of heart.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 2:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Apr. 11 2013, 10:56 am)
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While her current position is obviously closer to my views, I would never have wanted her to go through what she did in order to have a change of heart.

That we can agree on.  Still sad though...  But don't get me wrong, I am not condemning her -- nor do I condemn Cindy Sheehan.  I wish them well.  I am glad they've turned around. Just that I don't quite admire them as much as others do...  And sadly, I would feel the same if or when one day -- foreign drones fly our skies and "inadvertently" bomb our own people.  Oh, the fury people will feel then -- but couldn't or wouldn't feel now, when we ourselves are the "doers"...  :(


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 2:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 1:09 pm)
QUOTE

(Buggyboo @ Apr. 11 2013, 9:33 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 11:54 am)
QUOTE
 It's just so much about "them and their rights".  Sigh...

I politely disagree Ben.

Look at the big picture here. A guaranteed Constitutional right is not just under assault, but aggressively being pursued to take that right completely away from you by any and all means possible. No matter how underhanded or coerced the means are. The force behind this crusade is using a most hideous and heinous act (Sandy Hook) to leverage this most despicable agenda. That in itself should be telling. Why haven't they been this strong in their zeal with the deaths of the children in the ghettos of this country that has been going on for a long time? Because they know white and pretty dead children from rich people in Connecticut will get the their agenda pushed better. These dead children are just props for them and their goals of a socialist nanny state.

If this constitutional right is stripped away, what is next Ben?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Buggy:

May I politely say that you have just reconfirmed what I wrote about our society today -- my rights and the defense of my rights are just so much more important than the deaths of anybody out there.

I am not anti-gun per se -- and in any case, all guns are not the same.  I believe that crazy people determined to kill will find ways to kill -- guns or no guns.  But I also believe that guns -- like any effective tools -- can be leveraged to more devastating scale when used by the wrong people.

So for me, to minimize future deaths, I am willing to give up my legal right to own assault type weapons.  So why should responsible people (like you and me) curtail their rights?  Because they care about the lives of strangers.  It's called empathy.

I do realize it's one thing to voluntarily abstain from exercising our rights fully -- and quite another to have the right partly taken away.  I just wish more people could do so voluntarily...

"So for me, to minimize future deaths, I am willing to give up my legal right to own assault type weapons.  So why should responsible people (like you and me) curtail their rights?  Because they care about the lives of strangers.  It's called empathy."

Thanks for the eloquent reply Ben.

Curtailing my rights and the rights of others on this is empty logic IMO. It would accomplish nothing, especially in the Sandy Hook case. I'm more pragmatic, i.e. how to stop this kind of thing from happening again. It's 2013, police are everywhere, more than ever in the history of this country! Having a dedicated armed officer in every school makes the most immediate impact.

Making sure the Adam Lanza's of this world are placed on the Instant check system and never allowed to be near a gun. Following up and prosecuting people who fail the checks should be a priority also.

Stopping the revolving door judicial system and keep the bad guys in prison for the full length of sentences and strengthen the laws up.

These suggestions would go a long way to make a dramatic drop in the ever lessening gun deaths in this country that have been happening for decades.

While it is a noble thing to volunteer to give up your rights, to me it is losing potentially one more individual that could help protect me or my loved ones in a time of crisis.

Lastly, I do care about strangers; especially the poor in Chicago, Detroit, LA and DC to name a few places. When I see how they have been totally abandoned and their children preyed upon and then watch the world stop when the "right" type of child suffers, it galls me to no end! :angry:


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 3:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Buggyboo @ Apr. 11 2013, 11:31 am)
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Lastly, I do care about strangers; especially the poor in Chicago, Detroit, LA and DC to name a few places. When I see how they have been totally abandoned and their children preyed upon and then watch the world stop when the "right" type of child suffers, it galls me to no end! :angry:

And that, we can agree on.  As long we share a common concern... we, as a nation, will eventually find enough of a common ground to proceed forward...

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 3:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 11 2013, 3:49 pm)
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And that, we can agree on.  As long we share a common concern... we, as a nation, will eventually find enough of a common ground to proceed forward...

That's why you're (did I get it right this time?) the KOOLIST guy on the forum Ben! :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 4:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh my, where is the blushing icon??  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2013, 4:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

""(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.""
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