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Topic: Chicago Suffering One Shooting Every 6.3 Hours, as 2013 Homicide Count Hits 100< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 8:07 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hmm, think we need more gun control laws!

Whoops, no guns are allowed in Chicago! :D

I know, let's double the penalties, that should do it!

Hmm, now all that is left is to fix that revolving door at the courthouse! :p

"There have been 441 shootings and 100 homicides in the city of Chicago so far this year, according to a blog that tracks crime in Chicago.

That works out to 3.8 shootings per day or approximately one shooting every 6.3 hours."


http://cnsnews.com/blog....nt-hits


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 8:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Buggy.  The biggest, best, troll here, in a while.  Schaaawing!  What a pathetic loser!  Have you ever been on a hike????  Even a "day hike"?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 8:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Buggyboo @ Apr. 26 2013, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE
Hmm, think we need more gun control laws!

Whoops, no guns are allowed in Chicago! :D

I know, let's double the penalties, that should do it!

Hmm, now all that is left is to fix that revolving door at the courthouse! :p

"There have been 441 shootings and 100 homicides in the city of Chicago so far this year, according to a blog that tracks crime in Chicago.

That works out to 3.8 shootings per day or approximately one shooting every 6.3 hours."


http://cnsnews.com/blog....nt-hits

What a staggering display of ignorance/stupidity to think criminals don't go beyond Chicago to
find guns where there are far fewer gun regulations


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 9:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dennis The Menace
QUOTE
What a staggering display of ignorance/stupidity to think criminals don't go beyond Chicago to find guns where there are far fewer gun regulations


+1

That's and excellent point and brings out the importance of supporting and strengthening the UN small arms treaty. Just as opium and cocaine find their way into the US, smuggled guns will find their way into the US - and Chicago - unless steps are taken to shut down small arms ownership WORLDWIDE.

Even England, an island, is having more and more trouble keeping out smuggled guns and drugs. And there is NO gun culture there. The US has long and porous borders and marshlands and inlets that are hard to partrol. So it will be much more difficult to achieve a gun free society when guns can be smuggled in from other countries - as illegal drugs now are.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 9:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
unless steps are taken to shut down small arms ownership WORLDWIDE.

Right. There are probably about 10 billion small arms worldwide. And I'd really like to see YOU personally try to tell an Afghan warlord his AK is now banned, much less try to take it away from him.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 11:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Buggyboo @ Apr. 26 2013, 8:07 pm)
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Hmm, think we need more gun control laws!

Agreed.

Federal case outlines how guns made their way from Indiana to Chicago
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 12:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is awesome...right out of the lefty handbook. Splinky resorts to name-calling right out of the box with the first response and is followed up by the ever-amusing/entertaining/nauseating Dennis who piles on with more insults and inadvertently displays his own ignorance/stupidity when he is unable to discern the difference between possessing a firearm in Chicago and obtaining one elsewhere.  Bravo Dennis, bravo.  :laugh:  Kudos to Bass and High Gravity for following the party line and ignore the real issue that they cannot defend. Polly want a cracker?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 12:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The real issue of the thread isn't guns in Chicago?

Drink much?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 12:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yep city gun laws don't work, federal laws are needed , or at least uniform background checks.

And CHicago isn't the worst:

http://chicagowarrior.blogspot.com/2013....12.html

Though certainly not the best.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 12:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dorfinator @ Apr. 27 2013, 12:28 am)
QUOTE
This is awesome...right out of the lefty handbook. Splinky resorts to name-calling right out of the box with the first response and is followed up by the ever-amusing/entertaining/nauseating Dennis who piles on with more insults and inadvertently displays his own ignorance/stupidity when he is unable to discern the difference between possessing a firearm in Chicago and obtaining one elsewhere.  Bravo Dennis, bravo.  :laugh:  Kudos to Bass and High Gravity for following the party line and ignore the real issue that they cannot defend. Polly want a cracker?

+1 :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 1:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Apr. 27 2013, 12:36 am)
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The real issue of the thread isn't guns in Chicago?

Drink much?

Guns are mostly banned in Chicago. How they get there is Den Den's attempt at misdirection.

BTW, missed ya at the last MENSA meeting, bro :D
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 1:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dorfinator @ Apr. 27 2013, 12:28 am)
QUOTE
This is awesome...right out of the lefty handbook. Splinky resorts to name-calling right out of the box with the first response and is followed up by the ever-amusing/entertaining/nauseating Dennis who piles on with more insults and inadvertently displays his own ignorance/stupidity when he is unable to discern the difference between possessing a firearm in Chicago and obtaining one elsewhere.  Bravo Dennis, bravo.  :laugh:  Kudos to Bass and High Gravity for following the party line and ignore the real issue that they cannot defend. Polly want a cracker?

So in other words, in the very same sentence Dorf starts off accusing the left, including me, of
hurling insults and calling names yet in that very same sentence where he makes that accusation,
dorf does the same thing.  This is award winning lack of self-awareness which in turn makes it
award winning idiocy on the part of dorf.

congratulations dorf

Beyond that there is NO where in my response where Dorf or anyone could get the idea that I didn't
know ths difference between possessing a firearm in Chicago and obtaining one elsewhere(I mean
what do you think the part of my response "criminals don't go beyond Chicago" tells you? Criminals?
Where? Chicago. correct? Point is its pretty clear from the context I'm talking about criminals from
Chicago who posses arms in Chicago but got them outside of chicago. Geez. Maybe dorf is ESL?). That is
a baseless idiotic conclusion.

The obvious conclusion is that in dorf doesn't understand the very simple point that there is a %
of people who posses firearms in Chicago, who purchase it somewhere else with more lax gun regulations,
which makes the argument that gun regulations have failed, based on examples like Chicago, idiotic.
I'm not surprised that Dorf didn't get that point yet he ironically said that I displayed
"ignorance/stupidity"

Now I can't stress the idiocy of Dorf enough for

A) starting off accusing two people, including me, of calling names and insulting(oh and BTW bug does
this over and over in thread after thread) yet in the same sentence he does exactly what he
accused two people of doing. The incredibly mind boggling lack of self-awareness tells volumes about
the level of stupidity this dorf engages in

B) to somehow think the fact that the criminals in Chicago possess them in Chicago is some kind
of point(duh) that I didn't get and then not to understand the obvious point that it was the less
strict gun regulations in areas outside of Chicago, that made it easier for them to purchase
those guns, that they posses in Chicago, thus making the argument that Chicago's gun regulations as
evidence that gun regulations don't work to decrease crime, way too simplistic. This went right over
dorf's head yet ironically says it was "ignorance/stupidity". Not sure why I'm explaining it to Dorf
given that I don't think dorf has any hope in understanding it even though its a very very very
simple point.

Oh and to characterize Bass as "following the party line" is to reveal total ignorance of Bass's posts and style(he is most likely engaging in sarcasm here)


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 1:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dorfinator @ Apr. 27 2013, 1:11 am)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Apr. 27 2013, 12:36 am)
QUOTE
The real issue of the thread isn't guns in Chicago?

Drink much?

Guns are mostly banned in Chicago. How they get there is Den Den's attempt at misdirection.

BTW, missed ya at the last MENSA meeting, bro :D

"Guns are mostly banned in Chicago."

That is the entire point of why I brought up going outside of Chicago where you don't have those kind of regulations.

This went right over yours and dorf's head

no misdirection at all


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 7:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dayhiker9 @ Apr. 26 2013, 11:37 pm)
QUOTE
Yep city gun laws don't work, federal laws are needed , or at least uniform background checks.

And CHicago isn't the worst:

http://chicagowarrior.blogspot.com/2013....12.html

Though certainly not the best.

+1 for the link.

As the writer points out - you have to look closely at the numbers.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 7:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

dorfinator
QUOTE
Guns are mostly banned in Chicago. How they get there is Den Den's attempt at misdirection.


And you are missing the point that banning guns in the states and countries around Chicago is necessary because people buy guns from outside Chicago and TRANSPORT them into Chicago. Mississippi currently supplies the highest percentage of guns to Chicago.

My point is that in order to stop people from buying guns in another state or country, and transporting them to Chicago, guns must be banned in ALL of the US - and the UN small arms treaty must be strengthened.

An example is heroin, manufactured in Pakistan or Afghanistan. The illegal drug is transported to Chicago - smuggled. So Chicago's drug laws are pretty much ineffective because heroin is smuggle from halfway around the world. It is the same with guns.

Making guns illegal in Mississippi will mean that guns will simply be purchased somewhere else, maybe Pakistan, and smuggled with illegal heroin to Chicago. So gun lords in the US will lose profits and gun lords in Pakistan will make lots more money smuggling guns into Chicago.

So my point, that you obviously missed, is that for Chicago's gun ban to be effective - the UN small arms treaty must be strengthened so that guns are banned everywhere. US borders are just too porous to stop the smuggling of illegal drugs and guns. The prevalence of illegal drugs like heroin prove that.

Until guns are banned everywhere in the US and the UN small arms treaty is strengthened, Chicago will still have a gun problem.

So  I did NOT ignore an issue that I cannot defend - as you accused. In addition to banning guns in the US, a much strengthened UN small arms treaty is part of the solution to Chicago's gun problem.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 7:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dorfinator @ Apr. 27 2013, 1:11 am)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Apr. 27 2013, 12:36 am)
QUOTE
The real issue of the thread isn't guns in Chicago?

Drink much?

Guns are mostly banned in Chicago. How they get there is Den Den's attempt at misdirection.

BTW, missed ya at the last MENSA meeting, bro :D

On I see your reasoning. Since Chicago is a walled heavily guarded city it makes perfect sense.

(Jesus Christ. And these are the kind of rocket scientists who think they should have unlimited access to firearms.)
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 8:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
An example is heroin, manufactured in Pakistan or Afghanistan. The illegal drug is transported to Chicago - smuggled. So Chicago's drug laws are pretty much ineffective because heroin is smuggle from halfway around the world. It is the same with guns.


Heroin is outlawed everywhere on the planet with some place penalties being immediate execution without legal recourse. Yet it is still openly grown and processed.
Now explain how banning heroin has solved the worldwide addiction problem.

Again it comes down to enforcing existing laws, not making new ones.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 8:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Apr. 27 2013, 8:16 am)
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Heroin is outlawed everywhere on the planet with some place penalties being immediate execution without legal recourse. Yet it is still openly grown and processed.

Yet not nearly as much as alcohol. Proof that prohibition does work. The problem with trying to reason with wing nuts is that you people see everything as all or nothing, black or white.  If something doesn't work 100% of the time, you claim it's a complete failure. It's like reasoning with small children.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 8:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dorfinator @ Apr. 26 2013, 11:28 pm)
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the difference between possessing a firearm in Chicago and obtaining one elsewhere.

What, exactly, is your point?

If anything, the rate of gun violence in Chicago is exhibit #1 in the case for national standards in gun control. Strict local laws are ineffective when guns flood the streets from across the border.

To your point MLW there are already too many laws on the books when the vast array of different state laws are taken into account -- which, ironically, makes them much more difficult to enforce across state borders.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 9:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

*Straw purchases are illegal in every state.
*Providing firearms to felons is illegal in every state.
*Transporting firearms for public sale into a restricted area without an FFL is illegal. (Note: I'd have no issue with requiring an FFL to sell at gunshows.)
*Use or possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime is illegal in every state.
*Every state has mandatory prison sentences for the use or possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime (but those are quite often plead out. Why?).

There are well over 10,000 gun laws on the books, making firearms one of the most heavily regulated things in the US. The problem isn't not enough gun laws (in fact, there may well be too many as mentioned), the problem is not enforcing the ones we already have. With very few exceptions (universal background check for one), passing more isn't going to solve the problem.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 9:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The #1 problem in the Chicago neighborhoods besieged with violence is not the availability of guns.

The collar counties around Chicago are populated with thousands of lawful gun owners who own handguns, shotguns, AR-15's etc.  and yet there is no pandemic of gun violence a short dayhike away from the worse of the hoods.

If someone were really concerned about the violent neighborhoods in our big cities they wouldn't be wasting their time advocating for more gun laws. They would be working to change the sub-culture, economic and educational opportunities for the people stuck in the cycle of welfare dependency.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 9:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Apr. 27 2013, 8:12 am)
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*Straw purchases are illegal in every state.
*Providing firearms to felons is illegal in every state.
*Transporting firearms for public sale into a restricted area without an FFL is illegal. (Note: I'd have no issue with requiring an FFL to sell at gunshows.)
*Use or possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime is illegal in every state.
*Every state has mandatory prison sentences for the use or possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime (but those are quite often plead out. Why?).

There are well over 10,000 gun laws on the books, making firearms one of the most heavily regulated things in the US. The problem isn't not enough gun laws (in fact, there may well be too many as mentioned), the problem is not enforcing the ones we already have. With very few exceptions (universal background check for one), passing more isn't going to solve the problem.

The universal background check is the one law that I constantly advocate.

Straw purchasing may be illegal, but it is enabled by the lack of a national standard. When money is to be made by going across the border to gun shows in Indiana and reselling them to gangbangers in Chicago, you can bet it will happen. What percentage of these violators are caught, and how many people were shot with those guns before enforcement can do anything about it?

Enforcement of existing law is not the answer to that problem, because it's much more difficult to investigate after the fact than to stop the proliferation at its source.

Law enforcement resources are not unlimited (do you want to pay more taxes?) and Republicans in Congress have purposely limited the capability of the ATF. The same politicians who shout we need to enforce existing laws are making it harder to do just that.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 9:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Apr. 27 2013, 8:14 am)
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The #1 problem in the Chicago neighborhoods besieged with violence is not the availability of guns.

The collar counties around Chicago are populated with thousands of lawful gun owners who own handguns, shotguns, AR-15's etc.  and yet there is no pandemic of gun violence a short dayhike away from the worse of the hoods.

If someone were really concerned about the violent neighborhoods in our big cities they wouldn't be wasting their time advocating for more gun laws. They would be working to change the sub-culture, economic and educational opportunities for the people stuck in the cycle of welfare dependency.

Availibility of guns is very high on the list of problems, for the reasons I stated in my response to MLW. Do Chicago gangbangers get their guns from law-abiding citizens in the collar counties? If not, then it has no bearing on the issue.

I would take your last paragraph more seriously if you weren't so opposed to policies that would have a positive effect on inner city youth. In our last discussion about education you wanted people who send their kids to private schools to opt out of paying taxes for public education -- which would exacerbate the problems public schools are already having.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The problem with inner city schools, esp in the most violent neighborhoods is not funding.

I think  the failure is the making it economically unfeasible for the functioning families to escape the public schools populated with the children from dysfunctional "homes". How many times have we heard the "he was a good kid that started running with the wrong crowd" refrain?  

These children by and large have little to no family structure, have few role models from which to learn self control and discipline and exist in a sub-culture that is awash with substance abuse.

We would be better off offering these dysfunctional "parents" the option of sending their children to government run boarding schools that have the regimentation of a military academy.

I would take you more seriously if you offered something more than tax and spend spend spend on the same system that has been failing for decades. Isn't that the definition of madness? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?


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(Montanalonewolf @ Apr. 27 2013, 9:12 am)
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There are well over 10,000 gun laws on the books, blah, blah, blah...

How long are you going to allow cliches to determine your principles?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 1:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Machine guns are illegal and they is working pretty well.

Other types of guns and amno could work the same way?

Of course it could be that machine guns being illegal it is just easier to use something else.  Eliminate everything else and that could change. ie , like drugs there will still be illegal guns.  Still a uniform ban on certain items could work.?

I do agree with Ron, gun violence (or any violence) appears to be due in a large part to something other than the presence or absence of guns.  Still guns in the home often are used on the people living there so they do contribute to the problem.  And certainly bar fights etc. are worse when people have guns etc.


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(Ron. @ Apr. 27 2013, 9:14 am)
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If someone were really concerned about the violent neighborhoods in our big cities they wouldn't be wasting their time advocating for more gun laws. They would be working to change the sub-culture, economic and educational opportunities for the people stuck in the cycle of welfare dependency.

Yes, because it's obviously an either/or thing.
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(Ron. @ Apr. 27 2013, 10:05 am)
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I would take you more seriously if you offered something more than tax and spend spend spend on the same system that has been failing for decades. Isn't that the definition of madness? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?

More cliches.
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dayhiker9
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Machine guns are illegal and they is working pretty well.


Only a very view extremists in the pro-gun community would advocate to legalize machine guns - or nuclear weapons. There is pretty much universal agreement that there are limits to the useless US Constitution and 2nd Amendment. In other words, there is almost universal support for making machine guns illegal. There NEVER was any support for making them legal in the US - despite the gun culture here.

The US learned during the 1930's prohibition of alcohol that unpopular laws simply do not work.

So the gun control community must be careful not to overreach and produce a popular backlash such as happened with the prohibition of alcohol. Let's get the Universal Background Check and National Gun Registry first - then gradually expand the program. All the time, demographics and the move to urbanization is sapping strength from the pro-gunners. A gun free America is the end goal.

Read the link from my previous thread:
Focus On the End Goal
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 27 2013, 4:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

In some states machine guns are simply illegal for civilians but on a federal level they are still legal, simply tightly regulated and taxed, with the addition with the National Firearms Act of 1984 (?) that any manufactured after a set date are barred from civilians.
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