SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 912345>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Religion< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 10:53 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I recently participated in a religous type celebration dinner thing. Now I'll do my best not to make fun of religion but not making any promises. But to those that believe in that type of junk, why? What do people get out of it? I don't understand the fascination with it. Can people behave in a responsible way wihout the fear of god in them? Inquiring minds want to know.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
desert dweller Search for posts by this member.
Greetings
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9827
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 10:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The hope for continuation of consciousness is a powerful thing. We like to think we will, somehow, maintain our sense of "self" forever. Religion is one way, for some, to manifest that desire.

--------------
Seek Higher Ground
Can you feel the silence


Photobucket
Flickr
YouTube
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
WalksWithBlackflies Search for posts by this member.
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10145
Joined: Jun. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 11:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Beacuse it's my 2nd Amendment right!!! THAT'S WHY!

Oh, nevermind. This thread isn't about guns. Habit. Sorry.


--------------
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 11:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What would Jesus shoot?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
cweston Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 11:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Many people (myself included) feel that religious practice makes them a better person. A better parent, spouse, neighbor, etc.

Even if you set aside the question of whether God exists, for may people, holding yourself accountable to something beyond yourself makes one a better person. That "something beyond yourself" here would be God, but also your religious community.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
Three Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1075
Joined: Dec. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 11:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 10:53 am)
QUOTE
I recently participated in a religous type celebration dinner thing. Now I'll do my best not to make fun of religion but not making any promises. But to those that believe in that type of junk, why? What do people get out of it? I don't understand the fascination with it. Can people behave in a responsible way wihout the fear of god in them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Faith is the only modality, whether one believes in a supernatural realm or not, to answer four critical questions:

1. Origin
2. Purpose
3. Morality
4. Destiny

Whether you are a devout follower of a god or a committed materialist/naturalist, any thinking person must answer these questions and, no matter how one answers, the answers depend on unprovable conclusions...leaps of faith if you will.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 11:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ May 08 2013, 11:28 am)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 10:53 am)
QUOTE
I recently participated in a religous type celebration dinner thing. Now I'll do my best not to make fun of religion but not making any promises. But to those that believe in that type of junk, why? What do people get out of it? I don't understand the fascination with it. Can people behave in a responsible way wihout the fear of god in them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Faith is the only modality, whether one believes in a supernatural realm or not, to answer four critical questions:

1. Origin
2. Purpose
3. Morality
4. Destiny

Whether you are a devout follower of a god or a committed materialist/naturalist, any thinking person must answer these questions and, no matter how one answers, the answers depend on unprovable conclusions...leaps of faith if you will.

Ok. But why not just say,"There is god. I better not go around killing people because he might get mad."

I recently watched this thing about Mecca. It's where a bunch of men, no women allowed of course, gather around this giant block of marble, wear white robes and cry. What a waste of time and money. Wouldn't it be better if their destiny was let's say cure cancer than I need to go see that rock?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 11:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ May 08 2013, 11:22 am)
QUOTE
Many people (myself included) feel that religious practice makes them a better person. A better parent, spouse, neighbor, etc.

Even if you set aside the question of whether God exists, for may people, holding yourself accountable to something beyond yourself makes one a better person. That "something beyond yourself" here would be God, but also your religious community.

I struggle with religion. I don't see the majority of religous people being better than non religous people. A lot of times they are worse. Always judging people. And look at the Jehovah's, shunning family members?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
desert dweller Search for posts by this member.
Greetings
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9827
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ May 08 2013, 8:22 am)
QUOTE
Many people (myself included) feel that religious practice makes them a better person. A better parent, spouse, neighbor, etc.

Even if you set aside the question of whether God exists, for may people, holding yourself accountable to something beyond yourself makes one a better person. That "something beyond yourself" here would be God, but also your religious community.

I understand what you're saying. But, I thoroughly believe that an individual can be the best person he can be without having that accountability to a "higher" being.

You're implying that a person is somehow mentally  handicapped and incapable of being "good" without such goodness be defined and dicated by a force outside ourselves. If you believe in and argue for such a limitation then you are bound to live by it.

All I'm saying is, "Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours."


--------------
Seek Higher Ground
Can you feel the silence


Photobucket
Flickr
YouTube
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 11:37 am)
QUOTE
Ok. But why not just say,"There is god. I better not go around killing people because he might get mad."

From my perspective, if a (supposedly) religious person did not go around killing people because "God might get mad", that person is way way off kilter.

Further, I believe that a person who believes "God might get mad" is a religious person's sole motivation for not killing, that person is at least a little off kilter.  Maybe a lot.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ May 08 2013, 12:00 pm)
QUOTE
I understand what you're saying. But, I thoroughly believe that an individual can be the best person he can be without having that accountability to a "higher" being.

You appear to have missed the point.  You seem to be focusing on the stick.   For a religious person, it's not about God's wrath or our  "accountability" to God.  

Neither is it about the "carrot".  For a religious person, it's not about the promise of eternal life in joy and bliss in his presence.

The stick and the carrot are crutches that help mortal beings grab hold of a higher more spiritual law.

For a religious person, the higher more spiritual law is that being a son or daughter of a loving merciful God who extends his love and mercy to me even though I don't deserve his love or his mercy, I have an obligation to extend the same love and mercy to his children, my fellow men.


QUOTE
You're implying that a person is somehow mentally  handicapped and incapable of being "good" without such goodness be defined and dicated by a force outside ourselves. If you believe in and argue for such a limitation then you are bound to live by it.
History shows that people struggle mightily with "being good" when "good" is defined only in man's terms.  The history of Fascism and Communism in the 2th century are examples of that.

QUOTE
All I'm saying is, "Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours."
All I'm saying is, "Ignore your limitations, and you will be stuck with them forever.  Recognize that you have a divine origin and a divine potential, and you can overcome any limitation."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12902
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I see religion as something that benefits the powerful and wealthy.  Without it, the masses of poverty stricken might not behave, and the powerful would have to hire more protection for their material possessions.

There is no Destiny of mankind, just that each and every one of us will die.  There is only the morality of the group, and no basis for it other than good civilization.  We have no purpose on this Earth, other than to live and let live.  We should be guardians of the land and water, if only to preserve it as a place to live for our descendants.  

I have no use in my life for religion, but others seem to need whatever it offers.  


--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
cweston Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Marmotstew:
QUOTE

I struggle with religion. I don't see the majority of religous people being better than non religous people. A lot of times they are worse.


Desert Dweller:
QUOTE
You're implying that a person is somehow mentally  handicapped and incapable of being "good" without such goodness be defined and dicated by a force outside ourselves.


Perhaps I wasn't clear, because you have both critically misunderstood my statement and are attributes things to me that I most definitely did not claim. I was not making any sort of universal claim. I was describing how *some people* feel about the role of religion in their life.

I was not in any way implying that every person would be a better version of themselves through practicing religion. (Like everything else, I think the religion is probably great for some people but not for everyone.) Nor was I making any comparison of religious people to non-religious people.

I'm just saying that many people feel that religious practice makes them a better person than if they didn't practice religion. If you disagree, that's fine, but I was addressing the question of why people who practice religion practice religion. I think that's the primary reason.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 11:42 am)
QUOTE
I struggle with religion. I don't see the majority of religous people being better than non religous people. A lot of times they are worse. Always judging people. And look at the Jehovah's, shunning family members?

Really?  As bad as the various holy wars in man's history have been, they pale into insignificance compared to the secular wars of just the 20th century.

And as bad as the quasi religious governments in man's history have been (resulting in the wars of the 20th century) they pale into insignificance compared to the atheist governments of the 2nd half of the 20th century.  Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the like killed more of their OWN people than were killed in WW1 and 2 combined.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ May 08 2013, 12:22 pm)
QUOTE
I see religion as something that benefits the powerful and wealthy.  Without it, the masses of poverty stricken might not behave, and the powerful would have to hire more protection for their material possessions.  

That sounds reasonable.

But viewed from that perspective, how do you explain the results of the many atheist governments of the second half of the 20th century?  Especially those that outlawed (or attempted to do so) "material possessions" altogether?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
Lamebeaver Search for posts by this member.
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 19354
Joined: Aug. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 9:20 am)
QUOTE
What would Jesus shoot?

Looks like a .50 Barrett to me

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ May 08 2013, 12:26 pm)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 11:42 am)
QUOTE
I struggle with religion. I don't see the majority of religous people being better than non religous people. A lot of times they are worse. Always judging people. And look at the Jehovah's, shunning family members?

Really?  As bad as the various holy wars in man's history have been, they pale into insignificance compared to the secular wars of just the 20th century.

And as bad as the quasi religious governments in man's history have been (resulting in the wars of the 20th century) they pale into insignificance compared to the atheist governments of the 2nd half of the 20th century.  Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the like killed more of their OWN people than were killed in WW1 and 2 combined.

So you're saying the religous wars weren't as bad as the non religous ones?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
cweston Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 9:53 am)
QUOTE
I recently participated in a religous type celebration dinner thing. Now I'll do my best not to make fun of religion but not making any promises. But to those that believe in that type of junk, why? What do people get out of it? I don't understand the fascination with it. Can people behave in a responsible way wihout the fear of god in them? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm going to take another shot at this.

You've already framed the question in ways that are fairly negative toward and distorting of religion. "Believe in that type of junk" is not a very neutral statement, obviously. Also, you're just assuming that all religious people are motivated by "the fear of god."

I'm not intending to be argumentative. I'm simply trying to address your question.

For me, anyway, you're framing the question in ways that are pretty foreign to my experience as a religious practitioner. I don't fear God in any way. I don't believe that there's a hell--it wouldn't be in the character of the God I experience to send anyone there.

You're framing the question assuming a certain image of who God is and what religion is about. It may fit for some, but not for all.

To make a poor analogy, I don't get NASCAR at all. I can't figure out why anyone would be into "that junk." But I really also know nothing about it. I've never been to a race, never watched more than a minute of one on TV, don't understand the culture at all, etc.

If I actually knew something about the NASCAR culture, maybe I'd like it and maybe I wouldn't, but I'd at least have a decent understanding of what it is. I'm not intending this as any sort of attack, but it seems to me that you're view of religion is a little like my view of NASCAR. In reality, I think there's a huge diverse landscape of religious practice out there that's just completely off your radar.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 8:42 am)
QUOTE

(cweston @ May 08 2013, 11:22 am)
QUOTE
Many people (myself included) feel that religious practice makes them a better person. A better parent, spouse, neighbor, etc.

Even if you set aside the question of whether God exists, for may people, holding yourself accountable to something beyond yourself makes one a better person. That "something beyond yourself" here would be God, but also your religious community.

I struggle with religion. I don't see the majority of religous people being better than non religous people. A lot of times they are worse. Always judging people. And look at the Jehovah's, shunning family members?

I think both of you are right--that is, I see faith making some people better, and making some people worse.

What I've observed is that there are two basic types of faith: there's the kind for which belief something bigger than humanity provides perspective, is a way to get beyond petty human prejudices; and then there's the kind for which belief in something bigger serves as a rationalization for one's own prejudices.  

There were lots of people (my parents among them) whose faith motivated them to work in the Civil Rights Movement, or (more recently) for equality for women and LGBT people. There are also people whose faith motivates them to double down on their own unconsidered misogyny or homophobia.


--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 20
cweston Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ May 08 2013, 11:42 am)
QUOTE
I think both of you are right--that is, I see faith making some people better, and making some people worse.

What I've observed is that there are two basic types of faith: there's the kind for which belief something bigger than humanity provides perspective, is a way to get beyond petty human prejudices; and then there's the kind for which belief in something bigger serves as a rationalization for one's own prejudices.  

There were lots of people (my parents among them) whose faith motivated them to work in the Civil Rights Movement, or (more recently) for equality for women and LGBT people. There are also people whose faith motivates them to double down on their own unconsidered misogyny or homophobia.

Well said.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 12:37 pm)
QUOTE
So you're saying the religous wars weren't as bad as the non religous ones?

As far as being "bad", religious wars are just as bad as secular wars.  However, the secular wars of the 20th century caused far more death and destruction than the religious wars combined.

And the atheist governments of the second half of the 20th century killed more of its own citizens and destroyed more of its own nation's economy and treasure than all of the religious and quasi religious governments combined.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
nogods Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6339
Joined: Sep. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 12:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I worry most about those who don't rape and pillage and cause mayhem only because they fear the afterlife wrath of a supernatural being.  What happens if they lose their belief?  Or worse, hear voices saying "kill all the children" instead of a voice saying "feed all the children"?  

I don't steal my neighbor's stuff because it is his stuff.  No need for a sky daddy to intervene.

an apparently lots of believers don't believe their supernatural being has internet access, given how many seem to engage in cheating their state out of sales and use taxes via internet purchases.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
WalksWithBlackflies Search for posts by this member.
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10145
Joined: Jun. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ May 08 2013, 12:46 pm)
QUOTE

(TehipiteTom @ May 08 2013, 11:42 am)
QUOTE
I think both of you are right--that is, I see faith making some people better, and making some people worse.

What I've observed is that there are two basic types of faith: there's the kind for which belief something bigger than humanity provides perspective, is a way to get beyond petty human prejudices; and then there's the kind for which belief in something bigger serves as a rationalization for one's own prejudices.  

There were lots of people (my parents among them) whose faith motivated them to work in the Civil Rights Movement, or (more recently) for equality for women and LGBT people. There are also people whose faith motivates them to double down on their own unconsidered misogyny or homophobia.

Well said.

+2

--------------
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6603
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ May 08 2013, 9:59 am)
QUOTE
The hope for continuation of consciousness is a powerful thing. We like to think we will, somehow, maintain our sense of "self" forever. Religion is one way, for some, to manifest that desire.

The human ego and apprehension about our own mortality are very powerful, and deeply rooted in the human psyche. It should be no surprise that religions which promise eternal life and a means to achieve it are embraced by so many.

Added to that are answers to the very difficult questions about the universe, the existence & origin of life, and moral/ethical dilemmas. If you're a confirmed believer and have fulfilled the obligations to your church, your mind can rest a lot easier on these questions and your own mortality.

This is not to say that religion can't make someone a better person, but it can also preclude independent thought and provide cover. The Bible Belt and Jim Crow went hand in hand, and somehow the religious right has melded with the unabashed selfishness of Ayn Rand objectivism in the political ideology of today's American conservatism.

I respect religion as a very personal connection with the spiritual aspect of human nature but I detest the infusion of religion into politics, especially because I see it as a means by which the modern day money-changers manipulate the faithful into voting against their own best interests.


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
WalksWithBlackflies Search for posts by this member.
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10145
Joined: Jun. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ May 08 2013, 12:18 pm)
QUOTE
For a religious person, the higher more spiritual law is that being a son or daughter of a loving merciful God who extends his love and mercy to me even though I don't deserve his love or his mercy

Why do you think you're undeserving of His love or mercy? In your worldview, He created you including all the inherent human flaws. Do you love your family less after they make mistakes?

I don't get the notion of an omnipotent being creating humans so that they can worship him for creating them; and then punishing them for all eternity if they don't. A jealous God? A wrathful God? Why would an omnipotent being have use for such petty emotions?


--------------
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
double cabin Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16647
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ May 08 2013, 11:28 am)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 10:53 am)
QUOTE
I recently participated in a religous type celebration dinner thing. Now I'll do my best not to make fun of religion but not making any promises. But to those that believe in that type of junk, why? What do people get out of it? I don't understand the fascination with it. Can people behave in a responsible way wihout the fear of god in them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Faith is the only modality, whether one believes in a supernatural realm or not, to answer four critical questions:

1. Origin
2. Purpose
3. Morality
4. Destiny

Whether you are a devout follower of a god or a committed materialist/naturalist, any thinking person must answer these questions and, no matter how one answers, the answers depend on unprovable conclusions...leaps of faith if you will.

With all due respect Three back in the world of reality faith can't ANSWER those 4 questions let alone ANYTHING since it is unsubstantiated mythology and does not employ any semblance of critical thinking. Man's greatest advances come from actually thinking, not bowing to insitutionalized stories that any rational human being can only consider to be as yet unfounded in any form of veracity.

Origin: The theory of Evolution is plausible, the thoughts of men puorting to be from God in Biblical assertions are not.

Purpose: It is of my own choosing, not of men asserting something we know to be as yet nothing more than mythology.

Morality: Comes from within, not instituionalized facades grounded in societal manipulation. Suggesting the non-religous are any less moral than the religous is not only irrational and inane it is unAmerican.

Destiny: Whatever we begin or don't begin life with destiny is ultimately the product of the choices we make ourselves.


--------------
We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.

http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ May 08 2013, 12:42 pm)
QUOTE
I think both of you are right--that is, I see faith making some people better, and making some people worse.

What I've observed is that there are two basic types of faith: there's the kind for which belief something bigger than humanity provides perspective, is a way to get beyond petty human prejudices; and then there's the kind for which belief in something bigger serves as a rationalization for one's own prejudices.  

There were lots of people (my parents among them) whose faith motivated them to work in the Civil Rights Movement, or (more recently) for equality for women and LGBT people. There are also people whose faith motivates them to double down on their own unconsidered misogyny or homophobia.

Well said, and I generally agree.  However, I'd like to add a few points/questions.

For those whose "belief in something bigger serves as a rationalization for one's own prejudices" have they not rejected the basis of their religion in favor of their own prejudices?  And if so, would their behavior be any different if they had never embraced religion?

For those whose "faith motivates them to double down on their own unconsidered misogyny or homophobia" have they not rejected the basis of their religion in favor of their own prejudices/phobias?  And if so, would their behavior be any different if they had never embraced religion?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ May 08 2013, 12:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 12:37 pm)
QUOTE
So you're saying the religous wars weren't as bad as the non religous ones?

As far as being "bad", religious wars are just as bad as secular wars.  However, the secular wars of the 20th century caused far more death and destruction than the religious wars combined.

And the atheist governments of the second half of the 20th century killed more of its own citizens and destroyed more of its own nation's economy and treasure than all of the religious and quasi religious governments combined.

When was the last time there was a religous war? Just curious if they'be had one with modern weapons.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 1:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

All Religion is made up. By men. It's all in their head. It's all like a game. Just saying.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
cweston Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 2:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ May 08 2013, 12:56 pm)
QUOTE
All Religion is made up. By men. It's all in their head. It's all like a game. Just saying.

For being the one who posed the question in the first place, you don't seem very interested in people's answers.

I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that you were trying to initiate a dialog.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
252 replies since May 08 2013, 10:53 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 912345>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Religion
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions