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Topic: Florida’s Governor Signs BusinessBacked, Bill Banning  Paid Sick Leave< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 2:47 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://thinkprogress.org/economy....k-leave
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 3:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For 30 years, I was only paid or the hours I was on the job.  No paid sick leave, no paid holidays, and no paid vacations.  I found it better to have those $ in my paycheck, and let me decide how much time off I could afford.

Now, it seems the wages have not grown with the CPI, and this measure is just another way of depriving employees of their benefits.  The positive thing that will come of all of this is that employees will no longer feel loyal to any employer.  If wages are all that drive employment, and job satisfaction can be found at many places, why not go with the one that pays the best?

As for sick leave driving up business costs, I doubt that very much.  Sick employees will come to work, and infect other employees.  This will reduce production in general.

Costs are just that, costs.  Businesses can reevaluate their product, it's cost, and their desired profit.  Adjusting prices accordingly, will give them control over their product.  Employees will go to where they feel appreciated, where they feel valued.  One of these days, it will dawn on both sides of the employee / employer issue that neither can exist without the other.  Treat the other side with respect, and give an honest day's pay for an honest day's work.  nothing else matters.  Work is just a way to provide for your other life needs, whether it be family, hobbies, or travel.   If we are still working to just provide for food, shelter, and clothing, then we are no more than feudal serfs.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here is another link that may be easier since you do not need to sign in.  http://www.salon.com/2013/06/17/rick_scott_signs_alec_backed_ban_on_paid_sick_leave/

This will result in some counties have to change their current county procedures as they currently do require sick leave benefits for the those who contract with the county.  While this bill will harm everyone it is especially harmful for those with children since without sick leave they will lose a day of pay to stay home with a sick child.    For jobs that barely pay ones expenses this will create a hardship on families while benefiting corporate America.  While most of us do not need sick leave very often but when we do it is an important cushion for many.  Losing one’s pay at the same time medical bills pile up can be devastating for many including those that think their health insurance will pay for everything.  

Once again the worker suffers while the corporations benefit.  In this case ALEC once again has written laws for the politicians to use.  

Shame on us the voting population for voting these politicians in over and over again.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 6:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Economically speaking, a business can't survive paying people not to work.  The value of an employee to a business is reflected in the hours they work, not the hours the don't work.

For example, say there are two employees whose efforts at work produce the exact same value to a business - say 2,000 per week.  The business keeps 50% of that effort and pays the other 50% to the employee.

Now, let's say the first employee works 52 weeks every year.  He gets paid $52,000 over those 52 weeks

The second employee works only 48 weeks per year because he wants 4 weeks vacation.  He gets paid $48,000 spread over 52 weeks.  

The second employee may think he is getting a paid vacation but he really is not.  He gets paid what he is worth o the business and that worth is a function of the days he works, not the days he does not work.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 7:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jun. 19 2013, 4:21 pm)
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Economically speaking, a business can't survive paying people not to work.  The value of an employee to a business is reflected in the hours they work, not the hours the don't work.

Wow, thanks Captain Obvious. :p  No one's implying they should do only that.

But back here in the real world, people understand that sometimes people, despite their best intentions, get sick, and it's best for them to stay home and recover before returning to work.  Within well-defined limits, of course.

This really only affects salaried employees, and it does so quite negatively.  I get the feeling most employees won't feel the same about this as you do.

Is this Governor running for reelection?  How about any of the reps that pushed the bill through?  Good luck to them next election cycle.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 7:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This bill is curious though, and more than a little devious.  It doesn't explicitly ban sick leave.  What it does is ban any new legislation from passing that would give sick leave to Gov't employees.  Since when do we pass bills that disallow other bills to go through the legislative process in the future?  It's a bill introduced by the ALEC group supposedly in reaction to a ballot measure that's proposed in 2014 in Orange county allowing county employees to have sick leave.  It's trying to nullify a voter referendum that hasn't even made the ballot yet, regardless of whether voters approve it directly in 2014 or not.  "Y'all just voted this law in, but y'see, in the meantime we already passed a law prohibiting you from voting that one into law.  Too bad."

The legality of that seems iffy.  Seems like a good one for the courts.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 7:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just one more example of Republicans circling the drain as they continue the demographic death march to oblivion.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 8:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ALEC is devious, and should be outed for every bill that is introduced at their bidding.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 10:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jun. 20 2013, 5:47 am)
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Just one more example of Republicans circling the drain as they continue the demographic death march to oblivion.

If "viable salaried employees" are part of the demographic they're trying to alienate, it's working.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 11:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A few years ago, we tried combining vacation and sick leave.  You should have heard people scream in the open forum meetings!  Never mind that you would actually accrue time off faster (the new combined accrual was higher then the sum of the previous vacation and sick times)....I guess people just can't do math that well.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 12:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Jun. 20 2013, 9:46 am)
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A few years ago, we tried combining vacation and sick leave.  You should have heard people scream in the open forum meetings!  Never mind that you would actually accrue time off faster (the new combined accrual was higher then the sum of the previous vacation and sick times)....I guess people just can't do math that well.

A lot of places do that.  They simply call it PTO (paid time-off) and it's all in the same bucket.  That was how it was when I was a school teacher.

But that's only tangentially related to legislation like this.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 7:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Interesting that the fight is taking place in the public jobs sphere, supposed bastion of inflated wages and benefits.
All the school districts around here, however, have been busy getting their hourly employees below 30 hours a week, and reducing the number of employees that receive sick pay and vacation benefits. Their stated reasons are that they cannot afford health care premiums for all their hourly workers and that they want to ensure they can continue to provide benefits to certificated employees such as teachers.
Public or private, it seems as if a stratification of jobs is taking place. If you have the education and skills, things are looking up. If not, life is getting tougher. No editorial comment there, just an observation based on a local situation.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 8:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Public or private, it seems as if a stratification of jobs is taking place. If you have the education and skills, things are looking up. If not, life is getting tougher.

And this process has been going on for 40-50 years in America, at an accelerating rate.

Better hope that your kids can excel at academics, or at some specialized manual skill, because that is the only way to do well in the current economy.  And they have to be productive and innovative in either case to really shine.

Not really bad, just real, and a pretty large portion of the population simply cannot meet those requirements.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 9:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jun. 19 2013, 7:01 pm)
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(nogods @ Jun. 19 2013, 4:21 pm)
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Economically speaking, a business can't survive paying people not to work.  The value of an employee to a business is reflected in the hours they work, not the hours the don't work.

 I get the feeling most employees won't feel the same about this as you do.

Perhaps because I'm not an employee - haven't been one for more than 25 years.  And when I was an employee I saw myself as an independent entity who got paid for what I accomplished.  I knew that my days off were really days for which I wasn't getting paid, so I valued them that much more.  

The "I'm an employee" attitude is what really holds people back from progressing.  If people thought of themselves as a "company" selling labor they would better realize the economics of their situation, and better appreciate the value of investing in their "company" through education, skill acquisition, advertising, and infrastructure.

They worry about whether they will get a raise instead of whether they are earning a raise.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 11:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jun. 20 2013, 7:07 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Jun. 19 2013, 7:01 pm)
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(nogods @ Jun. 19 2013, 4:21 pm)
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Economically speaking, a business can't survive paying people not to work.  The value of an employee to a business is reflected in the hours they work, not the hours the don't work.

 I get the feeling most employees won't feel the same about this as you do.

Perhaps because I'm not an employee - haven't been one for more than 25 years.  And when I was an employee I saw myself as an independent entity who got paid for what I accomplished.  I knew that my days off were really days for which I wasn't getting paid, so I valued them that much more.  

The "I'm an employee" attitude is what really holds people back from progressing.  If people thought of themselves as a "company" selling labor they would better realize the economics of their situation, and better appreciate the value of investing in their "company" through education, skill acquisition, advertising, and infrastructure.

They worry about whether they will get a raise instead of whether they are earning a raise.

You keep talking in that post, but say very little of relevance.

This has nothing to do with employees' perceptions of themselves.  It has nothing to do with self-investment, opinions on raises, or any other of your unrelated ramblings. PTO is a benefit that employees earn for their work, along with salary and health insurance.  Taking away benefits is akin to cutting pay, for doing the same job.  Sorry if the concept is difficult to grasp.

All this bill is, is an industry-backed attempt to treat employees less like people and more like disposable chattel.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 1:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Who is the recipient of the largest fine ever for Medicare fraud? THAT guy. But some people might get a benefit they've accrued through WORK.
People are putting up with this... why?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 6:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

PTO is a benefit...not a right

Government should not be telling employers how to structure their compensation

If one company thinks they can improve their profitability by offering better benefits to get better workers then have at it.

Once again ....if you do not like your compensation then get a different job

We acquired ma small company that had "personal days" which were really nothing more than extra vacation days. People would still come to work when they were sick because they did not want to waste their days off when they were ill.

I literally had someone say that when I told them to go home because they were obviously sick

They are also popularly known as hangover days....often taken on Monday for some reason


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 7:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's amazing how bad your reading comprehension is. The bill does not ban paid sick leave. this is simply a rule saying local governments can't require employers to offer the leave. Pretty standard stuff about a state preempting local laws.

Many companies and the state of Florida offer paid sick leave. Nothing changes.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 11:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's a preemptive law, banning a law that hasn't even been proposed yet, required paid sick leave. They did similar here with big sodas, passed a law that drink sizes can't be limited. Never mind that we have far more pressing matters, or that no such bill had even been proposed, and frankly no one even cares if they want to guzzle half a gallon of soda. Thank you for your hard work on that one, who says they aren't working for us?

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