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Topic: Dependency, The Farm Bill< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 10:35 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The republican house version of the farm bill has millions in cuts to the SNAP (food stamps) program with some stating food stamps promote dependency.  While at the same time there is strong opposition to a proposed amendment that would only allow farm subsidies to producers with an average gross income of less than $250,000, and limit those subsidies to $50,000 per person.  

So giving millions to corporation farms does not promote dependency while feeding children, who are the biggest benefit of the SNAP program, promotes dependency.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 11:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A lot of family farms gross over $250K.  A lot of them also have expenses that are pretty close to that.  Have you priced a new combine lately?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 12:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Few farms own their own combines.  That is why you see those convoys on the freeway.  Harvest groups travel along the grain belt selling their services.

OK, so let's assume a typical family farm has gross income of over $250K, and expenses that exactly match the income.  If we are then offering them $50K in aid, then essentially we are giving them $50K for them to live on for a year.  Seems a little high to me.  

No one is saying Corporate farms need any help, except the lobbyists for the corporate farms.  Congress is going along.  We have cheap food in the US, because of immigrant labor and artificial farm support.

It is the farmers and the ranchers that are getting the big handouts, but they are the ones who cry about Welfare Queens and Food Stamp programs.  How about we just take farmers and ranchers off the gov't teat and price the leases according to fair cost.  Then we can see what our food really costs us.  Might have to subsidize a few more folks with food stamps, but I bet the overall cost would be less.  

Consumers would be paying more for their food, but less to the gov't.  Isn't that the way Libertarians want it?  I know the R's just want to keep providing their big corporate benefactors with $$.  All those Red states in the Midwest and West, seem to be mostly the farm belt.  Wonder what % of our food comes from family farms, and what % of the gov't $$ goes to those family farms?


10 percent of farms have gross sales of more than $250,000 and produce 80 percent of the country’s food and fiber.

USDA reports farms with more than $1 million in annual sales are particularly productive and were responsible for 59 percent of production in 2007. About 84 percent of those operations were family farms.  Gross annual sales should not be confused with net returns or profit, however. USDA estimates that even a farm with $500,000 in gross sales might expect a 10-15 percent gross margin, and only leave a family with a household income of $50,000 before taxes.

http://findourcommonground.com/food-facts/corporate-farms/


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 2:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

While I don't mind supporting enterprises that support employment, I do question why the GOP is so infatuated with boosting corporate profits -- and not employment.  ???

My stance actually is to remove subsidies altogether.  Tough love (capitalism) actually nurtures tough winners in the long run.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 3:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Jun. 20 2013, 10:20 am)
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Few farms own their own combines.  That is why you see those convoys on the freeway.  Harvest groups travel along the grain belt selling their services.

OK, so let's assume a typical family farm has gross income of over $250K, and expenses that exactly match the income.  If we are then offering them $50K in aid, then essentially we are giving them $50K for them to live on for a year.  Seems a little high to me.  

No one is saying Corporate farms need any help, except the lobbyists for the corporate farms.  Congress is going along.  We have cheap food in the US, because of immigrant labor and artificial farm support.

It is the farmers and the ranchers that are getting the big handouts, but they are the ones who cry about Welfare Queens and Food Stamp programs.  How about we just take farmers and ranchers off the gov't teat and price the leases according to fair cost.  Then we can see what our food really costs us.  Might have to subsidize a few more folks with food stamps, but I bet the overall cost would be less.  

Consumers would be paying more for their food, but less to the gov't.  Isn't that the way Libertarians want it?  I know the R's just want to keep providing their big corporate benefactors with $$.  All those Red states in the Midwest and West, seem to be mostly the farm belt.  Wonder what % of our food comes from family farms, and what % of the gov't $$ goes to those family farms?


10 percent of farms have gross sales of more than $250,000 and produce 80 percent of the country’s food and fiber.

USDA reports farms with more than $1 million in annual sales are particularly productive and were responsible for 59 percent of production in 2007. About 84 percent of those operations were family farms.  Gross annual sales should not be confused with net returns or profit, however. USDA estimates that even a farm with $500,000 in gross sales might expect a 10-15 percent gross margin, and only leave a family with a household income of $50,000 before taxes.

http://findourcommonground.com/food-facts/corporate-farms/

In the wheat belt (great plains) that's true, but not so in the midwest.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 4:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There are some that say that farm subsidies don’t actually subsidies farms or farming. All that happens, over time, is that land prices rise to reflect the subsidies being paid also payments are heavily tilted toward the largest producers.  In addition the biggest beneficiaries of the subsidies are corn producers.  Corn in addition to making alcohol for our autos produces corn sugar which if anything fuels our obesity.

The farm bill needs reforms but the reforms need to be thought out and not just reflect big agriculture donors or those that think the SNAP program does not need some reform of its own.  I do not know what the answer is but the continued favoring corporations over people is going to have serious negative consequences in the long run


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 5:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, the House has defeated the current farm bill, so the battle will go on.  And maybe, food prices will increase sharply, plus poor kids will have even less to eat.

What a country!

Richest, most productive nation in human history, but we can't/won't feed all of our children.  Sure is good that we are a "Christian" nation, not one of those uncivilized, heathen outfits.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 20 2013, 6:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One Nation Underfed

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Our food system is in many ways broken. We produce more than could possibly be consumed then destroy what can't be sold. Food we have coming out of our ears, what we're short on is the money to buy it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 2:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Our nation is facing both hunger and obesity...

The cheapest foods tend to be the massively processed type.  Fresh produce?  Not so cheap.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 6:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sure. You can get a double cheeseburger for a dollar, or a salad for six bucks.
Anybody else notice the dollar menu appeared about the same time they approved that pink slime gunk for human consumption?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 8:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do away with subsidies completely. We're paying for the end product one way or the other and I'd rather pay it more directly to the producer than the government which takes its big slice out of the tax pie before passing it on. Do away with the gov't part and we'd actually pay less overall.

Food stamps and welfare provided for 1 year for those who need it. The physically and mentally capable are cut off after that 1 year OR placed on public work rolls to work 40 hours/week for that check.
The physically and mentally disabled can stay on the dole for an indeterminate time period but would be required to prove that disability through annual exams.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 2:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Again. Most of the people on food stamps ARE working. You qualify based on your living expenses like rent and utilities versus your income. A lot of seniors also qualify. And sure you can have them doing public works, but what of whoever's JOB that is? Put them out of work? There's only so much make work stuff like highway cleanup to do and we already have prisoners doing that. People want them, if not a public risk, doing something useful for their room and board also. And that's already been abused. They've made them do jobs like oil cleanup on the Gulf with no protective gear and even used them to replace regularly paid factory workers. People aren't too sympathetic to the plight of prisoners, but you'd treat the poor the same? I think we get taken advantage of enough. And you already know what will happen if a certain sort has a pool of basically free labor to chose from. They won't hire us.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 9:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Biggest and most clever welfare bums in this country, including those in the farming industry,  have "Inc." as a last name.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 8:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

75% of the “Farm Bill” is SNAP & other nutritional welfare programs
15% of Americans are dependent on a pre-paid debit card to subsidize their food bill
Each individual Recipient averaged $1600/ year

40% of all farms receive subsides
10% of the farms receiving subsidies collected 75% of all farm subsidies
The bottom 80% of those farms collecting subsidies averaged $587/ year

Although they are certainly not mutually exclusive, for the vast majority of farms receiving subsidies under the “Farm Bill” it would be more financially advantageous to collect SNAP benefits, to help pay for the food they presumably help to grow.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 8:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Source? I'm not sure these numbers can be put into a balanced equation.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 9:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nice graph of Farm Bill cost:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....og.html

SNAP benefits participation and cost:
http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34snapmonthly.htm

Farms receiving Subsidies:
http://farm.ewg.org/farms_by_state.php

Farm subsidy distribution:
http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000
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