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Topic: Exodus, mind=blown< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 9:56 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The times they are a changin'....  Here is a great reflection on the news that Exodus is shutting down its misguided operation.  Great news for everyone.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013....ure-war
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow.  I'm rarely all that surprised by articles linked in the TPA, but this does it. I didn't see that coming.

A good day indeed.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 21 2013, 11:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just one more mouthy homophobe who was actually gay?  What's the big deal?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 12:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:51 pm)
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Just one more mouthy homophobe who was actually gay?  What's the big deal?

"Those who protest the loudest usually have the most to hide"

Just say your gay and get over it, there's nothing wrong with it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 1:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Trinity @ Jun. 21 2013, 9:56 am)
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The times they are a changin'....  Here is a great reflection on the news that Exodus is shutting down its misguided operation.  Great news for everyone.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013....ure-war

Are efforts to get heroin addicts or alcoholics out of a cycle of addiction also misguided?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 1:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 21 2013, 10:20 pm)
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(Trinity @ Jun. 21 2013, 9:56 am)
QUOTE
The times they are a changin'....  Here is a great reflection on the news that Exodus is shutting down its misguided operation.  Great news for everyone.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013....ure-war

Are efforts to get heroin addicts or alcoholics out of a cycle of addiction also misguided?

No, they aren't. Nor are efforts to help people overcome their sick, rancid anti-gay bigotry.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 7:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Trinity @ Jun. 21 2013, 8:56 am)
QUOTE
The times they are a changin'....  Here is a great reflection on the news that Exodus is shutting down its misguided operation.  Great news for everyone.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013....ure-war

Yes......Times are changing for the better for all.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 11:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:51 pm)
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Just one more mouthy homophobe who was actually gay?  What's the big deal?

The big deal is that a fairly high profile organization which has done a great deal of harm is not only ending it's program, but publicly acknowledging the wrongheadedness of their efforts (though some on this board have not gotten the memo), and apologizing to those who have been harmed in the past.  That's pretty huge in my book.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2013, 11:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Jun. 22 2013, 1:29 am)
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(Three @ Jun. 21 2013, 10:20 pm)
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(Trinity @ Jun. 21 2013, 9:56 am)
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The times they are a changin'....  Here is a great reflection on the news that Exodus is shutting down its misguided operation.  Great news for everyone.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013....ure-war

Are efforts to get heroin addicts or alcoholics out of a cycle of addiction also misguided?

No, they aren't. Nor are efforts to help people overcome their sick, rancid anti-gay bigotry.

Right on Tom.

So Three are efforts to get people to stop ingesting Religous Tomes incredibly selectively to justify division and exclusion worth it given the inclusive nature of our Republic?

I applaud the humility of reflection to be better human beings. The hateful tripe of the homphobe has no place in the reality of our great nation, period.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 24 2013, 8:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jun. 21 2013, 7:36 am)
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Wow.  I'm rarely all that surprised by articles linked in the TPA, but this does it.
I am really surprised that some Christians are finally admitting their nonsense is nonsense.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 24 2013, 8:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 21 2013, 10:20 pm)
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Are efforts to get heroin addicts or alcoholics out of a cycle of addiction also misguided?

Nothing wrong with helping people out of their addictions, but sexual orientation is not an addiction.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 11:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Jun. 22 2013, 11:54 am)
QUOTE
Right on Tom.


I applaud the humility of reflection to be better human beings. The hateful tripe of the homphobe has no place in the reality of our great nation, period.

Good evening DC.

I've been away awhile.

QUOTE
So Three are efforts to get people to stop ingesting Religous Tomes incredibly selectively to justify division and exclusion worth it given the inclusive nature of our Republic?


Huh?  Bet you can't say that three times fast.


So First Amendment freedoms don't include the right to hold and express the view that homosexual behavior is unhealthy and self destructive?    Should I leave some white space on the calendar for an IRS audit?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 11:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Don't know, do you cheat on your taxes??

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 11:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Jun. 24 2013, 8:09 am)
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(Three @ Jun. 21 2013, 10:20 pm)
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Are efforts to get heroin addicts or alcoholics out of a cycle of addiction also misguided?

Nothing wrong with helping people out of their addictions, but sexual orientation is not an addiction.

-Don-

Don,

As we have discussed before, their seems to be many indications that sexual preference is a continuum.

And homosexual behavior like alcohol or drug addition is both physically and spiritually harmful behavior.

Regards,
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 11:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jun. 25 2013, 11:49 pm)
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Don't know, do you cheat on your taxes??

wwwest,

You are suggesting that holding un-trendy views = tax cheat?

If so, you might have a bright future with the IRS.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 25 2013, 11:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Religion is a wonderful thing, but only for the religious believer who finds fantasy attractive and believable.

What a species!


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 25 2013, 8:46 pm)
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So First Amendment freedoms don't include the right to hold and express the view that homosexual behavior is unhealthy and self destructive?    Should I leave some white space on the calendar for an IRS audit?

Nobody's trying to take away your right to hold hateful, morally indefensible beliefs.

Nor, I assume, would you desire to take away our right to describe your beliefs as hateful and morally indefensible.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Jun. 26 2013, 12:01 am)
QUOTE

(Three @ Jun. 25 2013, 8:46 pm)
QUOTE
So First Amendment freedoms don't include the right to hold and express the view that homosexual behavior is unhealthy and self destructive?    Should I leave some white space on the calendar for an IRS audit?

Nobody's trying to take away your right to hold hateful, morally indefensible beliefs.

Nor, I assume, would you desire to take away our right to describe your beliefs as hateful and morally indefensible.

TT,

Describe away...it's your God given right  :D

That said, I'd suggest my view on this issue is both loving and morally defensible.  It seems to mirror that of the Author of morality to whom we, as American, ascribe the origin of inalienable rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What a crock!

Pretty much none of the Founding Fathers were anything like a "born again Christian", and most did not believe in a supernatural being of any kind.

True spokesmen for the Enlightenment and the belief that human beings are responsible for their own choices and their own moral codes, not based upon some pie in the sky, by and by.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jun. 26 2013, 12:24 am)
QUOTE
What a crock!

Pretty much none of the Founding Fathers were anything like a "born again Christian", and most did not believe in a supernatural being of any kind.

True spokesmen for the Enlightenment and the belief that human beings are responsible for their own choices and their own moral codes, not based upon some pie in the sky, by and by.

QUOTE
Pretty much none of the Founding Fathers were anything like a "born again Christian", and most did not believe in a supernatural being of any kind.


Support?  Statistical analysis of the religious views of the signers of the Declaration of Independence or delegates to the Constitutional Convention?

QUOTE
True spokesmen for the Enlightenment and the belief that human beings are responsible for their own choices and their own moral codes, not based upon some pie in the sky, by and by.


How do you reconcile your statement above with this line:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."?

Or this one: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think you need to read a great deal more about the cultural mix of the times and what those kind of statements meant, when uttered by public figures who were playing to the masses, just as political candidates do today who profess Xtian  values, even though they have none.

IN 1801, A GROUP of Baptist ministers in Danbury, Conn., wrote a letter to the new president, Thomas Jefferson, congratulating him on his victory. They also had a favor to ask. Baptists were a minority group, and they felt insecure. In the colonial period, there were two major Christian factions, both of which derived from England. The Congregationalists, in New England, had evolved from the Puritan settlers, and in the South and middle colonies, the Anglicans came from the Church of England. Nine colonies developed state churches, which were supported financially by the colonial governments and whose power was woven in with that of the governments. Other Christians — Lutherans, Baptists, Quakers — and, of course, those of other faiths were made unwelcome, if not persecuted outright.

There was a religious element to the American Revolution, which was so pronounced that you could just as well view the event in religious as in political terms. Many of the founders, especially the Southerners, were rebelling simultaneously against state-church oppression and English rule. The Connecticut Baptists saw Jefferson — an anti-Federalist who was bitterly opposed to the idea of establishment churches — as a friend. “Our constitution of government,” they wrote, “is not specific” with regard to a guarantee of religious freedoms that would protect them. Might the president offer some thoughts that, “like the radiant beams of the sun,” would shed light on the intent of the framers? In his reply, Jefferson said it was not the place of the president to involve himself in religion, and he expressed his belief that the First Amendment’s clauses — that the government must not establish a state religion (the so-called establishment clause) but also that it must ensure the free exercise of religion (what became known as the free-exercise clause) — meant, as far as he was concerned, that there was “a wall of separation between Church & State.”

    .........................................

In fact, the founders were rooted in Christianity — they were inheritors of the entire European Christian tradition — and at the same time they were steeped in an Enlightenment rationalism that was, if not opposed to religion, determined to establish separate spheres for faith and reason. “I don’t think the founders would have said they were applying Christian principles to government,” says Richard Brookhiser, the conservative columnist and author of books on Alexander Hamilton, Gouverneur Morris and George Washington. “What they said was ‘the laws of nature and nature’s God.’ They didn’t say, ‘We put our faith in Jesus Christ.’ ” Martin Marty says: “They had to invent a new, broad way. Washington, in his writings, makes scores of different references to God, but not one is biblical. He talks instead about a ‘Grand Architect,’ deliberately avoiding the Christian terms, because it had to be a religious language that was accessible to all people.”

Or, as Brookhiser rather succinctly summarizes the point: “The founders were not as Christian as those people would like them to be, though they weren’t as secularist as Christopher Hitchens would like them to be.”

                   ............................................

Besides the fact that incorporation by reference is usually used for technical purposes rather than for such grandiose purposes as the reinterpretation of foundational texts, there is an oddity to this tactic. “The founders deliberately left the word ‘God’ out of the Constitution — but not because they were a bunch of atheists and deists,” says Susan Jacoby, author of “Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism.” “To them, mixing religion and government meant trouble.” The curious thing is that in trying to bring God into the Constitution, the activists — who say their goal is to follow the original intent of the founders — are ignoring the fact that the founders explicitly avoided religious language in that document.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010....ll&_r=0


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 7:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 25 2013, 8:52 pm)
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And homosexual behavior like alcohol or drug addition is both physically and spiritually harmful behavior.

Regards,

But not nearly as harmful as human heterosexual behavior, which leads to abortions, kids having babies, world overpopulation and countless other problems including the majority of the world's AIDs cases.

-Don-


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(DonTom @ Jun. 26 2013, 7:41 am)
QUOTE

(Three @ Jun. 25 2013, 8:52 pm)
QUOTE
And homosexual behavior like alcohol or drug addition is both physically and spiritually harmful behavior.

Regards,

But not nearly as harmful as human heterosexual behavior, which leads to abortions, kids having babies, world overpopulation and countless other problems including the majority of the world's AIDs cases.

-Don-

Good counter Don,

I would reply that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful as it is always against the Designer's operating instructions.

Hetrosexual behavior is harmful is also very destructive when conducted outside of the Designer's operating instructions.

V/R
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(Three @ Jun. 26 2013, 10:06 am)
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I would reply that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful as it is always against the Designer's operating instructions.

Hetrosexual behavior is harmful is also very destructive when conducted outside of the Designer's operating instructions.

V/R

Must be nice to be able to so clearly read God's mind and his intentions.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 11:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Trinity @ Jun. 26 2013, 11:26 am)
QUOTE

(Three @ Jun. 26 2013, 10:06 am)
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I would reply that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful as it is always against the Designer's operating instructions.

Hetrosexual behavior is harmful is also very destructive when conducted outside of the Designer's operating instructions.

V/R

Must be nice to be able to so clearly read God's mind and his intentions.

Perhaps not always comfortable but He gave us the unique combination of manufacturers instructions and a love letter.

I would commend it to you, Trinity.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 26 2013, 11:56 am)
QUOTE

(Trinity @ Jun. 26 2013, 11:26 am)
QUOTE

(Three @ Jun. 26 2013, 10:06 am)
QUOTE
I would reply that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful as it is always against the Designer's operating instructions.

Hetrosexual behavior is harmful is also very destructive when conducted outside of the Designer's operating instructions.

V/R

Must be nice to be able to so clearly read God's mind and his intentions.

Perhaps not always comfortable but He gave us the unique combination of manufacturers instructions and a love letter.

I would commend it to you, Trinity.

And I to you.  When you've spent years studying biblical scholarship, the contexts within which it was written, the Deuteronomistic theology which colors much of the Hebrew Bible, the history of canon formation, and have also studied ancient Hebrew and Greek so that you have some sense of translational issues, come talk to me.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2013, 12:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 25 2013, 9:16 pm)
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That said, I'd suggest my view on this issue is both loving and morally defensible.  It seems to mirror that of the Author of morality to whom we, as American, ascribe the origin of inalienable rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Shorter Three: because I said so!

After all, that's what any argument that "God says..." or "the bible says..." really boils down to.

You chose which version of "god" to believe in. You chose which text(s) to consider "holy". You read those texts and applied your interpretation.  (Reading without interpretation? No such thing.) You chose which parts of those texts you consider more important than others.

So it's really all about you; you're just trying to disguise that by bringing "God" into it.

In the end, the only genuine morality is pragmatic morality. This "because I said so" crap is morally bankrupt.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 27 2013, 11:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Jun. 26 2013, 7:06 am)
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Good counter Don,

I would reply that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful as it is always against the Designer's operating instructions.

Hetrosexual behavior is harmful is also very destructive when conducted outside of the Designer's operating instructions.

V/R

If Mother Nature didn't want same-sex behavior, She never would have designed the same-sex orientation.

IMO, Mother Nature knows how dangerous it is to have too many humans with a heterosexual orientation. We can see all the problems that causes.

The real problem is that too many people are attracted to the opposite sex for these days. It's usefulness is long gone and now causes us countless problems such as world overpopulation of "accidents" as well as abortions.

IMO, this would be a better world if the heterosexual orientation no longer existed in humans.

Those who want a family still can, like this guy. No heterosexual "accidents" that way.

It seems to me the Bible needs an update to the Queen James Version.

-Don-


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