SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 212>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Hire Amnestied Immigrants, Over U.S. Citizens< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 29 2013, 7:00 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hire Amnestied Immigrants Over US Citizens

After the Civil War, coal mining was a good paying job. But a century ago, coal mine owners began the practice of recruiting foreigners to replace US citizens because they would work longer hours for less money. The coal companies paid the newly hired foreign coal miners far less money than they were paying US citizens. The new immigrants were viewed as harder working and managed to live on much less than what US citizens considered a "living wage".

As the new immigrants flooded into the coal mining parts of the country, US citizen coal miners slipped into poverty and eventually left. The depopulated towns and communities were replaced with housing and stores owned by the coal mining companies. The coal companies, able to charge high prices and rent to their employees, profited even more.

Ten or twenty years ago engineering and technology was considered one of the best paying fields. But just as with coal mining a century ago, companies have found that they can recruit and pay foreign engineers and scientists far less money.

With no children or ties to the community that distract from their attention to work, foreign employees are willing to work much longer hours. Foreign employees spend Sunday morning at work instead of at church. Some might say that they practically LIVE at work - just as the newly immigrated coal miners of a century ago did.

Aided by US government policy, this trend is growing. The US Senate is providing yet another incentive for companies to recruit science and technology workers from overseas. From the link:

As the Washington Examiner's Philip Klein recently reported: "Under Obamacare, businesses with over 50 workers that employ American citizens without offering them qualifying health insurance could be subject to fines of up to $3,000 per worker. But because newly legalized immigrants wouldn’t be eligible for subsidies on the Obamacare exchanges until after they become citizens – at least 13 years under the Senate bill – businesses could avoid such fines by hiring the new immigrants instead."

So is the US government helping history to repeat itself - with science and technology workers as happened with coal miners? As the US divests itself of US born engineering and technology talent - will we see company housing and company stores replace the now vibrant technology communities? Will today's high tech firms begin constructing "apartments" near their facilities and rent to the foreign scientists and engineers?

Maybe we are witnessing yet another case of history repeating itself - with a slightly different twist.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7196
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 29 2013, 8:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 3:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They're already using foreign workers in that capacity. Here in the Dells they pay companies to fill on season positions with foreign workers and as they don't have to be paid minimum wage or overtime they definately would rather use them than us. They claim we won't work those jobs or those hours. Baloney, But we do expect to be paid fairly, and that seems to be a problem.

--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 4:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Look at their heads explode at the mere suggestion their source of cheap labor be cut off. Also notice it's A-OK to house them in condemned properties. Also, we have people driving in from over an hour away for these jobs, much farther than the drive they say no one is wiling to make. They are correct that way too much of your pay goes in the gas tank however.

http://m.host.madison.com/news....7a.html


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 5:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

Isn't that what the R's/the right want?  The cheapest labor pool they can get away with?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43876
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 6:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Republican caucus is insisting on this.

Questioning the wisdom of John Boehner?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26353
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 6:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Jun. 29 2013, 4:00 am)
QUOTE

Do the math.  As a group, citizens are now enormously more prosperous than they were 50 years ago -- and 50 years ago, folks in turn were also enormously wealthier than folks back 100 years ago!  America has grown vastly richer for centuries now -- all the time that citizens faced nonstop pressure from immigrants!  You really should look into just how and why that is!

I'd much rather we continue embracing the challenges that have turned our nation into the biggest success story -- versus a seeming paralysis in fear...


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26353
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 6:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Jun. 30 2013, 2:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

The cheapest labor pool they can get away with?

Which back then, was exactly the impetus that gave millions of destitute Europeans their chance to build wealth in a new land -- and their blood, sweat and toil in turn built our country into the greatest in the world!

But what about today?  After generations of success, have we become spoiled, arrogant and insecure?  Regardless of race, the hardest workers (and the best students) are generally "FOB" and first generation immigrants.  Each wave of immigrants add dynamism to our society in ways that many affluent, 'old world' societies can't match.


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26353
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 6:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

Speaking for myself as a Christian, humanist and American -- I actually like the idea of One World, One Citizenry -- although I also recognize it as being too idealistic and impractical to actually pursue.

Viewed from the above,  my take is that "Dems/the left" are also pretty darn pro-American too -- and not pro-world at all.  :;):


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
HikeClimbBike Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 380
Joined: Jul. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 9:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Jun. 29 2013, 7:00 am)
QUOTE
Ten or twenty years ago engineering and technology was considered one of the best paying fields. But just as with coal mining a century ago, companies have found that they can recruit and pay foreign engineers and scientists far less money.

With no children or ties to the community that distract from their attention to work, foreign employees are willing to work much longer hours. Foreign employees spend Sunday morning at work instead of at church. Some might say that they practically LIVE at work - just as the newly immigrated coal miners of a century ago did.

Perhaps its just that Americans aren't willing to work as hard in school to become engineers.  As a recent PhD in mechanical engineering I saw a lot of foreigners in the program and even as students they worked harder than most of the American kids.  The American kids were all chasing the previously easy paychecks in finance or law.

I disagree with your implication that engineering is no longer a high paying field.  Even as an undergrad my research resulted in a good income and now with a PhD I haven't had a job offer for less than mid six figures.  The same is true for most of my colleagues.  You just have to be at the top of your field from a good school and not at Generic State University.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7196
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 9:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Jun. 30 2013, 3:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

Isn't that what the R's/the right want?  The cheapest labor pool they can get away with?

That's every business's goal. The lowest labor cost they can acquire, stay in business and make a profit.

Can you name any company, regardless of political ideology, that hires the most expensive labor force it can find?


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26353
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 10:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 30 2013, 6:59 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Jun. 30 2013, 3:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

Isn't that what the R's/the right want?  The cheapest labor pool they can get away with?

That's every business's goal. The lowest labor cost they can acquire, stay in business and make a profit.

Can you name any company, regardless of political ideology, that hires the most expensive labor force it can find?

Yep, few are 'true liberals' with their own money.   :;):

--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 30 2013, 10:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Those people freaking out about not being able to hire cheap foreign help? Republicans, every one of them, I know them personally. Once they gain legal status they have to pay them according to our labor laws. No more free overtime, no more substandard housing in place of pay, no more subminimum wage. And they are digging that idea not one bit, the whole while wondering why they have no business. I haven't taken a vacation since 2003. You?

--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 629
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 8:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Both sides selling out the American worker. Immigration should be tied with real labor needs, not as a vehicle to suppress wages.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 9:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

HikeClimbBike
QUOTE
I disagree with your implication that engineering is no longer a high paying field.


The US business community is currently lobbying Congress to allow more - a LOT more - foreign scientists and engineers into the US. This is despite the fact that there are a LOT of unemployed/underemployed US scientists and engineers. Once Congress opens the floodgates to foreign scientists and engineers, US engineers and scientists will have to compete with the new immigrants for jobs.

This is not unlike what happened to US born coal miners 100 years ago.

You are in a good position because you graduated from a high end school and not a generic state university. So the generic state university graduates will likely feel the job competition sooner - they already are. Pay for MOST ( the generic state college trained )  engineers is already depressed. Business and finance and law graduates, who aren't seeing the competition, are catching up and exceeding paywise.

But once the floodgates are opened by Congress, you will likely feel the competition and your generous salary will be threatened. Congress is getting a lot of pressure from their major donors to open the immigration door to foreign technology workers. So it IS happening.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
TigerFan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2727
Joined: May 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 10:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think this is just another one of those strategies to scare the public with misinformation.

They're taking advantage of the confusion, even among law-makers and people who should know better, between the terms "Americans" and "immigrants".

With regard to labor and Medicare/Medicaid laws, the term "Americans" includes both American citizens and legal residents (i.e. permanent resident status green-card holders).  I've read nothing that would imply that Obama's health care reforms change that in any way; there is nothing exclusive to "American citizens".

Also, FWIW, I'm an engineer and my parents were engineers.  American technical companies have ALWAYS lobbied to allow more high-tech workers into the U.S.  It's absolutely nothing new.  Nor does the amnesty program have anything to do with Congress "opening the floodgates to foreign scientists and engineers".

What a bunch of B.S.


--------------
Duct tape is like the Force.  It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9381
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 10:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 30 2013, 9:59 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Jun. 30 2013, 3:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

Isn't that what the R's/the right want?  The cheapest labor pool they can get away with?


Can you name any company, regardless of political ideology, that hires the most expensive labor force it can find?

The New York Yankees. And some of them is foreigners too.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 11:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 30 2013, 6:59 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Jun. 30 2013, 3:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Jun. 29 2013, 5:13 am)
QUOTE
Isn't that what Dems/the left want? One world, one citizenry?

Isn't that what the R's/the right want?  The cheapest labor pool they can get away with?

That's every business's goal. The lowest labor cost they can acquire, stay in business and make a profit.

Can you name any company, regardless of political ideology, that hires the most expensive labor force it can find?

My post was a silly retort in response to your ridiculous suggestion.

That aside, there are many companies that give similar consideration to their employees as they do to their bottom line.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26353
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 12:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Jul. 01 2013, 7:07 am)
QUOTE
What a bunch of B.S.

+1


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
Gabby Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6497
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 2:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Jul. 01 2013, 10:43 am)
QUOTE
That aside, there are many companies that give similar consideration to their employees as they do to their bottom line.

This would seem to be one of those:

In-N-Out Burger:
The company's business practices have been noted for employee-centered personnel policies. For example, In-N-Out is one of the few fast food chains in the United States to pay its employees significantly more than state and federally mandated minimum wage guidelines – starting at US$10.50 per hour in California, as of April 2013. The In-N-Out restaurant chain has developed a highly loyal customer base, and has been rated as one of the top fast food restaurants in several customer satisfaction surveys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-N-Out_Burger

I read about them a few years ago in an article in the NY Times. They don’t aim for lowest labor cost, but for employee retention and quality.

The Downside:
But, like the Catholic church, they attempt to (discreetly, at least for now) impose their religious preference on customers (and, one can assume, on employees as well), placing biblical references, however inconspicuously, on food containers.

Austin is supposedly getting its first In-N-Out this year. I’ll patronize them for the good reasons, and hope they don’t go completely ballistic on the religious stuff any time in the future. At least they aren’t asking patrons (or, God forbid - to use a familiar phrase - employees) to give up essential health services or genuflect in front of a statue of Jesus at the entrance to each one of their restaurants.

Your “business model” should consider a lot more than merely profits, and your personal philosophy doesn’t matter to me at all – unless you push it in my face at every opportunity.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 8:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Jul. 01 2013, 11:40 am)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Jul. 01 2013, 10:43 am)
QUOTE
That aside, there are many companies that give similar consideration to their employees as they do to their bottom line.

This would seem to be one of those:

In-N-Out Burger:

In-N-Out is an example of one of the many companies that recognize the employee as an integral component of a successful business.  And they treat their employees accordingly.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 9:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

TigerFan
QUOTE
Nor does the amnesty program have anything to do with Congress "opening the floodgates to foreign scientists and engineers".


I'm not addressing amnesty - only H-1B visas.

The business community keeps lobbying Congress - claiming that there is a shortage of engineers and technology workers. From Immigration Bill :

IFPTE says the amendment eliminates the requirement to prioritize hiring equally qualified American workers and "creates a loophole" to allow employers to fire American workers and replace them with lower-paid foreign workers.

Another loophole opens the door for the number of H-1B worker visas to more than triple to 230,000 - not the 180,000 limit stated in the bill......


230,000 is a lot - year after year after year. In ten years this is 2.3 million. If this happens, it is pretty much opening the floodgates.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26353
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2013, 10:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Jul. 01 2013, 6:47 pm)
QUOTE
TigerFan
QUOTE
Nor does the amnesty program have anything to do with Congress "opening the floodgates to foreign scientists and engineers".


I'm not addressing amnesty - only H-1B visas.

The business community keeps lobbying Congress - claiming that there is a shortage of engineers and technology workers. From Immigration Bill :

IFPTE says the amendment eliminates the requirement to prioritize hiring equally qualified American workers and "creates a loophole" to allow employers to fire American workers and replace them with lower-paid foreign workers.

Another loophole opens the door for the number of H-1B worker visas to more than triple to 230,000 - not the 180,000 limit stated in the bill......


230,000 is a lot - year after year after year. In ten years this is 2.3 million. If this happens, it is pretty much opening the floodgates.

In ten years (cumulative!) -- 2.3 million is <1% of our population!  Opening the flood gates?   And I am very curious to know from you, Bass, why our nation has prospered so tremendously since the Civil War?


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 1:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They say there's a pressing shortage of housekeepers, water park attendants, and waitresses too. They say we aren't willing to do those jobs (not true), we don't want to drive that far (not true), we don't want to work those long hours (REALLY not true, you think we all want two and three jobs, because we just love juggling all those schedules??), they say we aren't dependable or lack a work ethic (not true again).
So many people apply at these resorts that they have departments just to process them. But they can't find any help? More lies. They just don't want to pay. Period. Yet look at the prices they charge. My sales were routinely well over $1K a day, and there's just one of me. You really can't pay me more than a couple dollars an hour?


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7196
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 6:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's an employers' market with several people all applying for the same spot. It's economic stupidity to pay more for the same end labor results. Yes, a few dollars more/hour and "respect the worker" would be nice but this is the real world.

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 7:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ben2World
QUOTE
In ten years (cumulative!) -- 2.3 million is <1% of our population!  Opening the flood gates?


The number of skilled scientists and engineers and technology workers in the US NOW isn't that big. So the addition is a big increase in the percentage of those workers.

It is difficult to find out what that number of science and technology workers and engineers in the US now is. But engineers comprise the biggest part of that number. The number of engineers is, from Engineers :

The U.S. had just over 1.9 million engineers in 2010, according to Labor Department data. Software engineers make up nearly half of that total. The number of employed engineers declined during the recession.

In 2009, the U.S. produced 126,194 engineering graduates for bachelor's and master's degrees and for Ph.D.s........


Note that many of these US produced engineers are foreign born and in the US on visas.

I feel that ADDING 230,000 science and technology and engineering workers a year, 2.3 million over ten years, is like opening the floodgates. Note that it is likely that the number of US born entering science and technology and engineering fields will decrease as the number of foreign born fill the demand and drive down wages. That is exactly what happened in the coal mining industry 100 years ago when companies began large scale recruiting foreign born coal miners who would work for less money.

The point is the parallels between what happened 100 years with US born coal miners and what IS happening now with US born scientists, engineers, and technology workers. History seems to have a way of repeating itself.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 629
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 7:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

At 7.5% unemployment, the US does not have a labor shortage.

EPI Study of STEM shortage:

http://www.epi.org/files....sis.pdf

Unemployment by occupation:

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea30.htm

Unemployment by education:

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

The guest worker programs are simply another example of our government ignoring the needs of the American people, and being bought and paid for by big business. A targeted approach to maintain profit margins by suppressing both low-skilled and high-skilled wages.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 8:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jul. 02 2013, 5:49 am)
QUOTE
It's an employers' market with several people all applying for the same spot. It's economic stupidity to pay more for the same end labor results. Yes, a few dollars more/hour and "respect the worker" would be nice but this is the real world.

+1.....And that is exactly what the coal mining companies of 100 years age felt when they recruited foreign coal miners to replace the higher cost US born coal miners.

US born coal miners had families to support and were part of the community. So they spent time doing non-work things like going to church, jury duty, family things, voting, etc that detracted from their mining productivity.

Their foreign born replacements were happy to live ten to a room in company housing and to work all the time. All for much less money.

So from the accountant's point of view, it was a no-brainer to replace US born miners with harder working foreign born workers.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 8:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

markinOhio
QUOTE
EPI Study of STEM shortage


Great links!
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 629
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 8:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Left see it as a way to increase their base, and the Right see it as a way to maintain cheap labor for their masters. Impact on the American workers….Who cares?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
54 replies since Jun. 29 2013, 7:00 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 212>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Hire Amnestied Immigrants
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions