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Topic: Fighting wildfires in Wilderness areas< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 5:24 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

OK, before the other topics in TR get derailed, how about we discuss here what our various opinions are about fighting wildfires?

IMO, if it is a roadless area, we might as well let it burn until Nature brings rain, a shift of the wind, cooler weather, etc...  Too many deaths come from the attempt to fight wildfires.

People who build in heavily wooded areas are advised to make a 50 ft break around their homes to help protect them.  We should not be risking lives to fight fires just to save homes.  Material goods can be replaced.

As for heavier air support, I would agree.  Once the decision has been made to put people in harms way, we need to provide more air support to protect them.

I am not denigrating anyone's choice of occupation.  I just object to losing lives over a loss of trees and homes.  if there was an easy way to fight these fires, we would have discovered it by now.  Nature should be left to enjoy the benefits of fire, without our intervention.  

There, my opinion, and not intended to change anyone else's.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 5:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The NPS Wilderness wildfire policy is rather handsoff, which I agree with and support.
http://www.nps.gov/policy/DOrders/DO-18.html

Echoed in Yosemite's park plan: Page 17
"GOAL: IMPLEMENT A FIRE PROGRAM THAT ALLOWS THE NATURAL PROCESS OF FIRE TO
PREVAIL IN THE YOSEMITE WILDERNESS"
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 5:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As we've lost 19 fire fighters this week, we certainly need to figure out what, why and how it happened.

I can't say it's bad policy to try and protect private property, but if the fire started naturally, and private property isn't threatened then let it burn would be my vote.

I also agree that home's etc are not worth a life.  Protect them to a point and then let them burn too..


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 02 2013, 5:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think you have the right idea.  Firefighters shouldn't have to risk their lives to try and save homes in the trees.  

Building a house in the woods in the western states is asking for trouble, as is building a house near sea level or on a river's flood plain.  My thinking is that if we let private insurance underwriters do their jobs, most people wouldn't consider any of those choices.  Unfortunately, we have the Federal Flood Insurance program which subsidizes stupid building decisions in low lying areas.  

While we don't have Federal Fire Insurance, rest assured that private insurers are going back to the drawing board.  The old mantra of a cleared space around a house doesn't cut it anymore, as the recent Black Forest fire outside of Colorado Springs showed once again.  No amount of brush clearing will help when the hot winds decide that houses are going up in flames.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 7:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Building a house in the woods is one thing, building a house in a red zone is quite another.

I don't think we should be asking people to risk their lives fighting fires in red zones.

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=274691
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Jul. 02 2013, 5:50 pm)
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I think you have the right idea.  Firefighters shouldn't have to risk their lives to try and save homes in the trees.  

Building a house in the woods in the western states is asking for trouble, as is building a house near sea level or on a river's flood plain.  My thinking is that if we let private insurance underwriters do their jobs, most people wouldn't consider any of those choices.  Unfortunately, we have the Federal Flood Insurance program which subsidizes stupid building decisions in low lying areas.  

While we don't have Federal Fire Insurance, rest assured that private insurers are going back to the drawing board.  The old mantra of a cleared space around a house doesn't cut it anymore, as the recent Black Forest fire outside of Colorado Springs showed once again.  No amount of brush clearing will help when the hot winds decide that houses are going up in flames.

I agree....You always hear about people losing their homes and how tragic it was because they could not get flood insurance

Because it was a stupid place to build a house!

Arson is a little different than natural fires, but in general I think you should evacuate and rescue but let them burn themselves out.

I have a friend that has a tree service and he always gets calls for mitigation AFTER a bad fire.....nobody wants to cut down the pretty trees until after the fire


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 11:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree.

I lived on a small Caribbean island for years and dealt with hurricanes every year.  Insurance wasn't a realistic option.  We just accepted it as the price for living there.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 11:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For what it's worth, I also agree with the popular opinion in this thread (I never thought I'd see the day when a TPA thread came in with general across-the-aisle agreement).  Let people build where they may, and let the insurance underwriters do their jobs in assessing the actual statistical risks of them living there.  If people can't afford the insurance, they can either live elsewhere or simply suck it up when the place burns/floods/quakes/etc.

Either way, I agree with the general opinion that firefighters needn't be involved and put at risk just to save houses.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 11:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jul. 03 2013, 11:28 am)
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 If people can't afford the insurance, they can either live elsewhere or simply suck it up when the place burns/floods/quakes/etc.

Exactly

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 11:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jul. 03 2013, 8:28 am)
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For what it's worth, I also agree with the popular opinion in this thread (I never thought I'd see the day when a TPA thread came in with general across-the-aisle agreement).  Let people build where they may, and let the insurance underwriters do their jobs in assessing the actual statistical risks of them living there.  If people can't afford the insurance, they can either live elsewhere or simply suck it up when the place burns/floods/quakes/etc.

Either way, I agree with the general opinion that firefighters needn't be involved and put at risk just to save houses.

just to save houses?

How are rural firefighters all that different in function from urban firefighters who save structures as a routine part of their profession?

Now, just to save trees? Totally unwarranted.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 12:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 03 2013, 9:56 am)
QUOTE

(GoBlueHiker @ Jul. 03 2013, 8:28 am)
QUOTE
For what it's worth, I also agree with the popular opinion in this thread (I never thought I'd see the day when a TPA thread came in with general across-the-aisle agreement).  Let people build where they may, and let the insurance underwriters do their jobs in assessing the actual statistical risks of them living there.  If people can't afford the insurance, they can either live elsewhere or simply suck it up when the place burns/floods/quakes/etc.

Either way, I agree with the general opinion that firefighters needn't be involved and put at risk just to save houses.

just to save houses?

How are rural firefighters all that different in function from urban firefighters who save structures as a routine part of their profession?

Now, just to save trees? Totally unwarranted.

I wouldn't want an urban firefighter to run into a burning home just to save the home.  (Different story if there are children trapped in there, say.)

Although I do get your parallel there, and it is food for thought.  I'll have to chew on that one a bit.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 12:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also wildfire fighters don't run "into" their fires either, they largely seek to contain them from beyond the periphery as the fire breaks they seek to construct only function when they are outside the fire zone, which is a close parallel to urban firefighters.

[edited]

Both urban and rural are very dangerous jobs. I still remember my cousin's reaction when one of her son's transferred into the FDNY, totally freaked about concerns for his safety. The job he was moving from? NYPD. Everyone in the family knew exactly why she was concerned.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 03 2013, 12:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 03 2013, 10:18 am)
QUOTE
Also wildfire fighters don't run "into" their fires either, they largely seek to contain them, which is a close parallel to urban firefighters

A fair correction.  Yes, you're right.

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