SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Guns, Immigration, and money< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 8:36 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Did the NRA and the gun manufactures defeat gun control (against the will of the people) with their deep pockets?

If so, what does the money spent on immigration imply?


Gun Bill
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/vote_2013.php


Total = $600,000
Nay votes = $527,000


Immigration bill
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/immigration/index.php

Total = $26,000,000
Yea votes = $20,000,000

At 12 million, the technology giants alone spent about 24 times more to secure a cheap work force, than the evil empire spent to secure our 2nd Amendment rights.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 9:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Couple issues with this info

A) It is using 1 PAC (NRA) and comparing it to a multitude of corporations, unions and interest groups. Also, I would assume the majority of the money spent by the NRA is through their own PAC on behalf of Senators, ie running ads for them rather than giving money to their individual campaigns, since that practice is limited by campaign finance reforms.

B) It is assuming that the only interest the multitude of corporations, unions and interest groups had in making the donations was to secure votes regarding immigration as oppossed to a multitude of other policies.

As an aside, if the NRA PAC only dispersed $600,000 to Senators over a 6 year period, what have they done with the hundreds of millions they have collected over that same time period.


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 10:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is certainly not a perfect comparison. The data was limited to the chamber where the legislation was considered. The NRA is obviously more concentrated on a single issue. However, that difference in concentration alone cannot account for the huge difference in magnitude.

Just for a perspective, Microsoft (very active in immigration reform) alone outspent the NRA by a wide margin.

Rank: 26
Total: 28.5 Million
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000115


Rank: 52
Total: 20 Million
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000082
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 10:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Microsoft is a lot larger than the NRA. They have a lot more interests than the NRA. I think it actually hurts your position that the NRA, smaller and concentrated on 1 issue, spent anywhere near what Microsoft did.

--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7141
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 10:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Comparing business interests with membership organization interests is not a valid comparison for 2 reasons:
A: 1 is for profit, one is non-profit.
B: each has a different goal.

QUOTE
what have they done with the hundreds of millions they have collected over that same time period.

It may not seem so but the political side is only a small part of NRA activities.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 11:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Microsoft a lot larger than the NRA? Not even close…unless you count dollars as people!

As indicated in the above post…..Microsoft is a corporation backed and driven by corporate profits, and the NRA is backed and driven by it’s members (citizens). I don’t think that can be discounted.

But, if you happen to believe that corporations are people…..

Microsoft Employees in USA = 60,000

NRA Members = They claim to have 4.5 million members, conservative estimates put membership in the 3 million range, and were adding somewhere between 5000 and 8000 a day after Sandy Hook……so the number of people represented by Microsoft was eclipsed in about ten days.

Just for perspective…..Microsoft spends about 50% more than the NRA, and the NRA represents about 50 times more people.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 11:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So you are counting members vs employees? Members are paying the NRA for a sevice, that makes them customes. Why don't you compare NRA employees to Microsoft employees, or NRA members(customers) to Microsoft customers.

You keep trying to make points using non equal components in the equation.


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 11:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I concede that it is not a perfect comparison. However, NRA members cannot by any stretch be considered customers. They are paying to support a cause.

I think comparing NRA members and MS US employees is the best measure of their relative representation of actual US citizens…..it is actually skewed a little in that the NRA represents it members, and Microsoft represents it’s corporate interest (not necessarily the employees).
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How can you say the NRA represents its members when 70% of NRA members supported universal background checks? Or when its board is made up of gun manufactuers rather than Billy Bob who goes hunting on weekends?

--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How many employees do you think Microsoft would have if you only had to pay a $25 fee to get a job there? Add in the free magazine, and I think hey would have about 100,000,000 employees. :D

--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dig a little deeper into that claim of 70%. Even discounting the questions about the validity of that number , being in favor of universal background checks but against the Gun Control bill is certainly not mutually exclusive.

I’m certain that there are NRA members that disagree with their stance on the Gun Control bill, but I’m even more certain that there are Microsoft employees that disagree with their stance on the Immigration Bill. After all, one motive for supporting the bill is that it will help to suppress IT wages…including some of their employees.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
10 replies since Jul. 11 2013, 8:36 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Guns, Immigration, and money
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions