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Topic: Should Zimmerman still have a CC permit?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:47 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Legally I guess he still has the right to have one, but he is not a guy I want walking around with one.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 1:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not IMO.
He has already demonstrated poor judgment while armed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 1:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Mr. Zimmerman since you were found NOT guilty, your right to self-defense will be limited.

I cannot envision a more perverse would.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 2:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As disappointed as I am that Zimmerman has gotten off scot free (I place blame not on the jurors but on the inadequacy of Florida laws) -- the fact remains that legally, he is now deemed to have committed no crime whatsoever.  So yeah, he gets to carry his gun.  But my hunch is this cowboy surely has learned his lesson and will not be so rash and idiotic the next time around...

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 6:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Legally yes, but he's proven himself to be a moron who shouldn't.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 7:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jul. 14 2013, 2:34 am)
QUOTE
 But my hunch is this cowboy surely has learned his lesson and will not be so rash and idiotic the next time around...

I hope, everyone learned something from this.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 7:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Zimmerman has learned a few things that probably many permit holders would be best served to know.

Just because you have a gun doesn't mean that you can ignore common street smarts - staying off the streets at night, getting involved in a neighbourhood watch, getting involved in other people's problem's, etc.

So he is NOW probably MORE qualified than most to have a gun license.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 8:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A firearm should be used only for self-protection.  that is exactly what Zimmerman used his firearm for.

Given his penchant for wanting to play Wyatt Earp I suspect he would have done the same thing whether or not his armed, ans whether or not Martin was white.  He wanted play sheriff, gun or no gun.

We can debate whether or not a person should follow a potentially dangerous criminal, but there is no evidence that Zimmerman drew his firearm at any time prior to the time Martin was beating him to death.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 8:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Jul. 14 2013, 7:47 am)
QUOTE
Zimmerman has learned a few things that probably many permit holders would be best served to know.

Just because you have a gun doesn't mean that you can ignore common street smarts - staying off the streets at night, getting involved in a neighbourhood watch, getting involved in other people's problem's, etc.

So he is NOW probably MORE qualified than most to have a gun license.

I'd say you're right Bass.

Use of deadly force, with, or without a weapon, even under the rules of self defense has consequences.

It's much better to not place ones self in such a situation.

I continue to support the Castle Law as well as stand your ground.

This case is somewhat unique in that neither party IMO was in the act of committing a felony and that placed the use of self defense in a gray area of the law.

No law is perfect in every situation.  I'm not really sure how a law needs to be enacted to address this specific situation.

Being stupid isn't against the law, at least not in this case.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 8:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Since his only conviction has been in the kangaroo court of public opinion....he should keep it.

He will probably need it more than ever now....people are already tweeting "kill Zimmerman"


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 8:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BillBab
QUOTE
Since his only conviction has been in the kangaroo court of public opinion....he should keep it.


More on your point - "the kangaroo court of public opinion":

The System Has Failed

and

Guilty Until Proven Innocent
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 8:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 5:02 am)
QUOTE
A firearm should be used only for self-protection.  that is exactly what Zimmerman used his firearm for.

Given his penchant for wanting to play Wyatt Earp I suspect he would have done the same thing whether or not his armed, ans whether or not Martin was white.  He wanted play sheriff, gun or no gun.

We can debate whether or not a person should follow a potentially dangerous criminal, but there is no evidence that Zimmerman drew his firearm at any time prior to the time Martin was beating him to death.

Zimmerman acted against the tenets of the neighborhood watch program and against the directions of local law enforcement.  His careless actions led to the death of an innocent person.  Zimmerman put himself in a situation that required the use of deadly force to get out of.

And I don't buy for a second that he would have behaved the same had he not been armed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 9:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 7:02 am)
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A firearm should be used only for self-protection.  that is exactly what Zimmerman used his firearm for.

If GZ had kept his stupid arse in his truck instead of getting out, he would not have had to use his gun and a black kid would still be alive today.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 11:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Jul. 14 2013, 8:52 am)
QUOTE
Zimmerman acted against the tenets of the neighborhood watch program and against the directions of local law enforcement.  His careless actions led to the death of an innocent person.  Zimmerman put himself in a situation that required the use of deadly force to get out of.

And I don't buy for a second that he would have behaved the same had he not been armed.

Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.

Maybe punks like Martin will now think twice before resorting to violence to solve every problem.  Maybe punks like Martin will now think "hey, that cracker could be armed."

Just last week, a 14-year old kid shot and killed a 16-year old over a pair of sneakers.  Worst, is that earlier in the year he was accused of displaying the gun on a school bus, but of course his parents claimed their son did not have access to a weapon, and the matter was dismissed by the school without reporting it to the police.  

Perhaps his parents and Martin's parents need to pay more attention:

QUOTE
“This is a wake-up call for every mother, every father, every grandmother, every guardian,” said Arlee Daniels Jr., program coordinator of the Stop the Violence Coalition, a group of local organizations that works to combat Buffalo’s homicide rate. “You can no longer take for granted that your child is out doing the right thing. Every one of you should be checking on them thoroughly and relentlessly.”


Boy, 14, arrested in shooting death of 16-year-old

Buffalo shooting suspect, 14, reportedly brought gun to school
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 11:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ Jul. 14 2013, 9:51 am)
QUOTE
If GZ had kept his stupid arse in his truck instead of getting out, he would not have had to use his gun and a black kid would still be alive today.

You could also say if TM would have just kept walking instead of punching and jumping on top of GZ, pounding his head into the pavement, he would still be alive today.  Neither person used the best judgment.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 11:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ Jul. 14 2013, 9:51 am)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 7:02 am)
QUOTE
A firearm should be used only for self-protection.  that is exactly what Zimmerman used his firearm for.

If GZ had kept his stupid arse in his truck instead of getting out, he would not have had to use his gun and a black kid would still be alive today.

Irrelevant.  He did nothing illegal.  In fact, we encourage residents to keep a watch on the neighborhood.  All four streets leading into my neighborhood have Neighborhood Watch signs posted.

The 911 operator asked Zimmerman "what's he doing now" and he got out of his vehicle to find out - a natural action of someone concerned about a stranger in the neighborhood.

But even if it was not prudent for Zimmerman to exit his vehicle, it was not illegal.

The only illegal act was that of punk wannabe Martin, whose attack of Zimmerman was a felony in and of itself.  

Blaming Zimmerman for having to use a firearm to protect himself from Martin's unlawful act is like blaming the guy who has to drive home from the graveyard shift for not studying harder in school when he gets hit by a DWI.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 11:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

nogods said
QUOTE

Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.


I think its safe to say that what lead to TM's death was both GM's stalking TM and TM's
response to that stalking.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Jul. 14 2013, 11:59 am)
QUOTE
nogods said
QUOTE

Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.


I think its safe to say that what lead to TM's death was both GM's stalking TM and TM's
response to that stalking.

It's also safe to say that what lead to every death by domestic violence of a spouse was the wedding.

And that what lead to Martin's death was Zimmerman's decision to move into that complex four years ago.

Zimmerman did nothing illegal in following Martin.  There is no evidence that he used his weapon in any manner other than to defend himself from Martin's illegal attack of him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 12:28 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Jul. 14 2013, 11:59 am)
QUOTE
nogods said
QUOTE

Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.


I think its safe to say that what lead to TM's death was both GM's stalking TM and TM's
response to that stalking.

It's also safe to say that what lead to every death by domestic violence of a spouse was the wedding.

And that what lead to Martin's death was Zimmerman's decision to move into that complex four years ago.

Zimmerman did nothing illegal in following Martin.  There is no evidence that he used his weapon in any manner other than to defend himself from Martin's illegal attack of him.

There was absolutely evidence of both initiating the attack. Nothing conclusive either way.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

nogods said
QUOTE

It's also safe to say that what lead to every death by domestic violence of a spouse was the wedding.


Of course the link between TM being killed and GM decision to stalk TM is much more of a direct
line than say the link between a wedding and domestic violence especially in regard to the
time between the events(although I'm sure are some very rare weddings were maybe there was
domestic violence within a couple of minutes of being wed. Of course there are plenty of
examples of domestic violence where they people involved weren't married)

nogods said
QUOTE

And that what lead to Martin's death was Zimmerman's decision to move into that complex four years ago.

Zimmerman did nothing illegal in following Martin.  There is no evidence that he used his weapon in any manner other than to defend himself from Martin's illegal attack of him.


as you can see from what I was responded to you I wasn't responding to anything you said
about what is or what isn't legal(The jury made it clear you're correct and I'm obviously
not contesting that) but what lead to it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jcb @ Jul. 14 2013, 12:33 pm)
QUOTE
There was absolutely evidence of both initiating the attack. Nothing conclusive either way.

The timeline, the witnesses, and the facts that were consistent were Zimmerman's claims all support that Martin initiated the attack.  

Nothing supported a claim the other way.

and we now know that Martin was no little angel.

http://www.cnn.com/video....nn.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Witness talking on phone testified the last words martin said were "get off me". There was evidence both ways

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 12:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A known perjurer saying she heard something like "get off me" is not evidence of much of anything

And as far as TM being an angel, we are not allowed to discuss that....we are only allowed to disparage the guy that survived, despite the fact that it should be relevant to TM's state of mind in attacking Z physically

And yes, I noticed the paper this morning still using the photo of TM as a little kid


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 1:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BillBab said
QUOTE

A known perjurer saying she heard something like "get off me" is not evidence of much of anything


Of course even though the prosecution lost it did a good job of showing the various was
GM was lying concerning various things he claimed like claiming when he was interviewed by
hannity that he didn't know about Stand your Ground. In the end, however, GM's dishonestly
was viewed by the jury, I guess, to whether GM was guilty of anything.

BillBab said
QUOTE

And as far as TM being an angel, we are not allowed to discuss that....we are only allowed to disparage the guy that survived, despite the fact that it should be relevant to TM's state of mind in attacking Z physicall


actually Billbab it all depends on who you're inclined to support right? I mean you for
example would be predisposed to talk and discuss how TM isn't an angel but will stay clear
, for example, of GM's past like regarding domestic violence? of course the difference between
the two is that TM wasn't even 18 where as GM is an adult and committed that domestic
violence as an adult


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 2:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Jul. 14 2013, 1:06 pm)
QUOTE
of course the difference between
the two is that TM wasn't even 18 where as GM is an adult and committed that domestic
violence as an adult

Of course the difference between the two is that Zimmerman owned and possess a firearm legally, Martin's ownership of a firearm was illegal.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 2:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 8:44 am)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Jul. 14 2013, 8:52 am)
QUOTE
Zimmerman acted against the tenets of the neighborhood watch program and against the directions of local law enforcement.  His careless actions led to the death of an innocent person.  Zimmerman put himself in a situation that required the use of deadly force to get out of.

And I don't buy for a second that he would have behaved the same had he not been armed.

Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.

How do you know TM committed a felony?  Because the guy who shot him do death said so?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 2:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 2:10 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Jul. 14 2013, 1:06 pm)
QUOTE
of course the difference between
the two is that TM wasn't even 18 where as GM is an adult and committed that domestic
violence as an adult

Of course the difference between the two is that Zimmerman owned and possess a firearm legally, Martin's ownership of a firearm was illegal.

I was clearly talking about the discussion about their respective pasts and the extent to
which their past reflects negatively on their character. On that note, do we as a society
more likely forgive people for irresponsible behavior they did in their youth or as an adult?
I think the answer is clear.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 2:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.

Since you were there and viewed the fight, why weren't you called to testify?  

If you had come forward during the investigation, I'm sure Zimmerman would never have been charged.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 3:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Chuck D @ Jul. 14 2013, 2:57 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.

Since you were there and viewed the fight, why weren't you called to testify?  

If you had come forward during the investigation, I'm sure Zimmerman would never have been charged.

:D


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 3:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Chuck D @ Jul. 14 2013, 2:57 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 14 2013, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
Martin's decision to commit a felony by attacking Zimmerman is what lead to Martin's death.

Since you were there and viewed the fight, why weren't you called to testify?  

If you had come forward during the investigation, I'm sure Zimmerman would never have been charged.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the trail.  

We know from the evidence produced during the trial that Martin was beating the tar out of Zimmerman.  Or perhaps you think Zimmerman caused his own injuries, and then put Martin on top of him and acted like he was being beat up by Martin for the witnesses to see.

thankfully unlike you, the jury listened to the evidence instead of taking Al Sharpton's word for it.
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