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Topic: Motor City Mayhem< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 10:00 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What should be done to rescue Detroit?

Discuss.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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(Raznation @ Jul. 22 2013, 10:00 am)
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What should be done to rescue Detroit?

Economically punish all of those productive white folks who abandoned Detroit over a half century and fled to their middle/upper middle class suburban enclaves.  Throw a 10% property tax surcharge at them and deposit the receipts in Detroit's general fund.  That'll fix it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 10:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Jul. 22 2013, 8:09 am)
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(Raznation @ Jul. 22 2013, 10:00 am)
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What should be done to rescue Detroit?

Economically punish all of those productive white folks who abandoned Detroit over a half century and fled to their middle/upper middle class suburban enclaves.  Throw a 10% property tax surcharge at them and deposit the receipts in Detroit's general fund.  That'll fix it.

Increasing property taxes requires a vote by the people.  What are the odds of this one passing?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 6:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think the biggest issue is the lack of any type of tax base.

The city went from....what?........two million people down to around 700k?

And they still have a large debt.

The only thing I hear them say is to cut costs.......what costs?

The city is falling apart.......public services is worse than North Korea on a good day.

Take away the retirement for ex-city employees? Really? take away what they worked for and force them onto public assistance?

I think that they need to figure out some way to get companies to invest into the city.....get them back in so they can hire.....and increase the tax base.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 8:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Very tough situation for which I see no real solution.  

There are other cities in a similar bind, and more on the way.     

Many will  become American Urban Reservations.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 8:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That's what happens after 50 years of democrat mayors....

Socialism run amock....


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 22 2013, 11:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Jul. 22 2013, 8:51 pm)
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That's what happens after 50 years of democrat mayors....

Socialism run amock....

Michigan Unemployment Rate = 8.7
Tennessee Unemployment Rate = 8.5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Hmmm....must be all that capitalism keeping Tennessee so far ahead of the curve.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 7:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The contract is amazing for anyone who has ever driven down 8 Mile Rd.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 10:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They should hire Rick Perry

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 10:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Jul. 22 2013, 7:43 pm)
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Very tough situation for which I see no real solution.  

There are other cities in a similar bind, and more on the way.     

Many will  become American Urban Reservations.

Yep, and since city employees were putting their retirement into the city pension instead of SS, if they lose that, they are just totally F'd.

I read somewhere that if they were putting into a pension plan, they were not allowed to put into social security.

IMHO, I think that they should figure out a way to pay the pensions of retired city workers BUT rework the existing workers retirement by changing them over to SS or some other means.

Then go through all the tax records and locate property owners who havent paid their taxes. Send them a notice to pay up or get served a lien or reprocess the property.

If the property is destitute, then have the national guard come in and raze all the buildings.

Detroit really does need some fresh thinking.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ Jul. 23 2013, 10:44 am)
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If the property is destitute, then have the national guard come in and raze all the buildings.

Not quite that easy due to asbestos, lead paint, and hazardous materials (paints, solvents, gasoline, oil, etc.) but I agree with your direction.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 12:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As many Detroit retirees moved on to the burbs or the Sunbelt (Tennessee and Florida were mentioned by the Detroit paper), Detroit really doesn't have that problem anymore when you think about.  That pain will be spread out to other communities as those retirees sell home equity.  The bondholders ... that's why they got a good tax-exempt/tax-equivalent yield.

Watching the business channel on a slow day yesterday, modern Detroit is concentrated in certain modern neighborhoods as generations have fled.  With 130 sq. miles, much of the periphery is being leveled and turned into green space (but few services).  It just barely lost an X-games to Austin, so the place does have a marketing edge.  I'm sure it's coming back but not 1950's style.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 23 2013, 9:55 am)
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(Raznation @ Jul. 23 2013, 10:44 am)
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If the property is destitute, then have the national guard come in and raze all the buildings.

Not quite that easy due to asbestos, lead paint, and hazardous materials (paints, solvents, gasoline, oil, etc.) but I agree with your direction.

Well, yes.......I dont really mean just line up the bulldozers and just drive across the neighborhoods in straight lines.

But having abandoned homes just sitting there is not beneficial.

I saw yesterday that there is quite a lot of people who have not paid their 2011 taxes on their property. Time to file those papers.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SW Mtn backpacker @ Jul. 23 2013, 11:02 am)
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Watching the business channel on a slow day yesterday, modern Detroit is concentrated in certain modern neighborhoods as generations have fled.  With 130 sq. miles, much of the periphery is being leveled and turned into green space (but few services).  It just barely lost an X-games to Austin, so the place does have a marketing edge.  I'm sure it's coming back but not 1950's style.

I agree with your assessment.

I dont see Detroit instantly becoming the same city that it once was.

The biggest issue they have is getting companies to move in and provide jobs. Once that happens, people will move back in.

But they need to do some serious re-thinking on how they run that city.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Detroit's been a bad name since I can remember. Nobody wants to live there, move there, do business there. Should sell it to Canada.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 11:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ Jul. 24 2013, 9:37 am)
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Detroit's been a bad name since I can remember. Nobody wants to live there, move there, do business there. Should sell it to Canada.

Or sell the city to OCP?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 1:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Detroit would make a great set for yet another post-Apocalypse style film that needs a background of derelict buildings, abandoned cars, mounds of rubbish, a general post-industrial zeitgeist.

Escape from New York was filmed in my hometown of St. Louis. Maybe they could film Escape from the Rust Belt in Detroit.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 9:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ Jul. 23 2013, 10:44 am)
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(Old Frank @ Jul. 22 2013, 7:43 pm)
QUOTE
Very tough situation for which I see no real solution.  

There are other cities in a similar bind, and more on the way.     

Many will  become American Urban Reservations.

Yep, and since city employees were putting their retirement into the city pension instead of SS, if they lose that, they are just totally F'd.

I read somewhere that if they were putting into a pension plan, they were not allowed to put into social security.

IMHO, I think that they should figure out a way to pay the pensions of retired city workers BUT rework the existing workers retirement by changing them over to SS or some other means.

Then go through all the tax records and locate property owners who havent paid their taxes. Send them a notice to pay up or get served a lien or reprocess the property.

If the property is destitute, then have the national guard come in and raze all the buildings.

Detroit really does need some fresh thinking.

There have already been plenty of tax foreclosures...which makes perfect sense in a city where the median value had sunk to around $5,000

We will take their houses and............

They will move somewhere else and get a job and pay taxes and buy things....then Detroit will be fine  :)

JS does a fair job of detailing how they destoyed themselves

So as a start....they could not do any of these things going forward...assuming they learned anything

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article....ernment


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 10:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I just heard on NPR that Detroit had become so dysfunctional that people had a hard time paying their taxes.

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(HighGravity @ Jul. 22 2013, 11:19 pm)
QUOTE

(gunslinger @ Jul. 22 2013, 8:51 pm)
QUOTE
That's what happens after 50 years of democrat mayors....

Socialism run amock....

Michigan Unemployment Rate = 8.7
Tennessee Unemployment Rate = 8.5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Hmmm....must be all that capitalism keeping Tennessee so far ahead of the curve.

Now,compare Detroit's unemployment rate with Chattanooga's, Nashville's or Knoxville....

Detroit  50% projected, 30% reported.

Just another reason to vote the liberals out.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 6:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Jul. 25 2013, 6:07 pm)
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(HighGravity @ Jul. 22 2013, 11:19 pm)
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(gunslinger @ Jul. 22 2013, 8:51 pm)
QUOTE
That's what happens after 50 years of democrat mayors....

Socialism run amock....

Michigan Unemployment Rate = 8.7
Tennessee Unemployment Rate = 8.5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Hmmm....must be all that capitalism keeping Tennessee so far ahead of the curve.

Now,compare Detroit's unemployment rate with Chattanooga's, Nashville's or Knoxville....

Detroit  50% projected, 30% reported.

Just another reason to vote the liberals out.

Great logic as always Slinger. You ignore the larger (more accurate) sampling in favor of an outlier.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 10:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Jul. 25 2013, 6:09 pm)
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(gunslinger @ Jul. 25 2013, 6:07 pm)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Jul. 22 2013, 11:19 pm)
QUOTE

(gunslinger @ Jul. 22 2013, 8:51 pm)
QUOTE
That's what happens after 50 years of democrat mayors....

Socialism run amock....

Michigan Unemployment Rate = 8.7
Tennessee Unemployment Rate = 8.5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Hmmm....must be all that capitalism keeping Tennessee so far ahead of the curve.

Now,compare Detroit's unemployment rate with Chattanooga's, Nashville's or Knoxville....

Detroit  50% projected, 30% reported.

Just another reason to vote the liberals out.

Great logic as always Slinger. You ignore the larger (more accurate) sampling in favor of an outlier.

Detroit is going bankrupt, not Michigan.  Just comparing apples to apples.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 9:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So you're okay with a wider scale problem. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 11:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Jul. 25 2013, 8:04 am)
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There have already been plenty of tax foreclosures...which makes perfect sense in a city where the median value had sunk to around $5,000

We will take their houses and............

They will move somewhere else and get a job and pay taxes and buy things....then Detroit will be fine  :)

JS does a fair job of detailing how they destoyed themselves

So as a start....they could not do any of these things going forward...assuming they learned anything

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article....ernment

Im pretty sure that Detroit hasnt hire any new employees in years.

Now if they are running a city employee base sized upon a 2mil citizen instead of a 700k population, then there is something wrong.

The city council and the unions really need to sit down and think whats best for everyone.

Time for layoffs and early retirement (if they could afford it).

However the issue is even though the population has declined, the actual size of the city has not become smaller.

So you still have to perform maintenance on infrastructure although no one is using them. Its like owning a six bedroom house but only need one bedroom.

maybe its time to start shutting off utilities to abandoned neighborhoods....no sense on running water to a house where only rats and crackheads live. Of course, probably best to raze down those places anyway.

What really needs to happen wont happen because some people are more interested in staying in office or try to score points with their buddies and make money off of draining the city of its resources.

IMHO


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 7:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, why did the population of the city shrink?

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(gunslinger @ Jul. 26 2013, 7:28 pm)
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So, why did the population of the city shrink?

You're claiming democrats and "socialism" killed Detroit. So how the hell do you explain Tennessee's social and fiscal ills?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 2:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think it would be a great PhD thesis project to track the relationship of black migration into Detroit to man the auto and the defense industrys there, and continue to track through the white flight from the city to the suburbs.

Wasn't Detroit one of the earliest industrial centers to exploit, and welcome, cheap labor from the Blacks of the South?


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(gunslinger @ Jul. 26 2013, 7:28 pm)
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So, why did the population of the city shrink?

In large part for the same reason Chicago is shrinking

High rates of taxation

from the article I cited above

"Detroit has the only utility tax in Michigan, and its income tax is the third-highest of any big city in America. (Only Philadelphia and Louisville take more, and they aren’t doing great, either."


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 28 2013, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

So the only ones left are those who pay little or no tax?

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