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Topic: Was Zimmerman Profiling?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 12:01 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Was Zimmerman profiling, and if so, was it racial?

I say "yes", with the caveat that the racial component was justified since the neighborhood had recently experienced robberies committed by blacks. If Trayvon was white, I'd say the chances of Zimmerman tailing him would be 50/50.

Other profiling included gender (male) and age (young). But to me, the most significant aspect of the profiling was clothing and demeanor/body language.

If Trayvon was wearing slacks and a sport coat and carrying an umbrella, do you think Zimmerman would have tailed him?

How often do you profile others... consciously or not?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

When we walk down a street and glance at the people we meet, we consciously or subconsciously evaluate whether or not we think they are a threat to us.

Out experience, perceptions and biases influence our evaluation.

Is this profiling?  I'd say that to avoid profiling, one must put aside one's preconceived notions (and some might argue, our common sense) in judging the people we meet.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 12:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Everytime I walk down my street and see a black guy I ask myself,"is he going to offer me crack?"

It's just instinct. Know what I'm sayin?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 1:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh, just totally. Like when I see an overdressed white guy slithering down the street I just know he's going to offer me a limited exposure diversified partnership in a high yielding derivative opportunity.

Gives me the creeps I tell ya'.

Unfair to all the suits out there I know, but I just can't help it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 2:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

yes, Zimmerman was "profiling" in the sense that he perceived Martin as a potential criminal because he was a stranger who fit the description of past crime suspects in his neighborhood.

Makes perfect sense top anyone with common sense.  Martin would not have felt any less discriminated against if the police had caught up to him instead of him having an encounter with Zimmerman.  He would have still been angered about being suspected as a criminal because of his appearance. Maybe he would not have punched the officers.

A lot of the protest are over the fact that Zimmerman thought Martin was a criminal because of his appearance, but that is exactly how we identify suspects - by factors associated with past crimes.  

It might have been wiser for Zimmerman to treat all strangers as suspicious, but that doesn't make treating Martin as a suspicious foolish.  Just like it may be wiser to wear a seat belt on all trips regardless of how short or how long.  But that doesn't mean someone who only wears a seat belt on trips of 5 miles or so should stop wearing a seat belt on those trips.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 2:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Whether it was accurate I can't, of course, say: but Zimmerman's recorded description of Martin's behavior to the 911 person as "wandering" adds potential weight to suspicion. In the dark and rain a seemingly aimless pedestrian can easily be understood to catch the eye. Much moreso than clothes or ethnicity the way I see it. After all that is a mixed community.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 8:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 9:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Has it been established as a fact that TM was not up to mischeif?  If he did have malicious intent, instead of just acting suspiciously, would it still then be considered profiling?  As it is, why profiling and not reporting/investigating suspicious behavior?

The irony of Barrack Obama's rant:  when a black male approaches, we should not lock our cars, cross the street, seem afraid, etc etc

.....but we have absolutely no business getting out of our own car in our own neighborhood when said black male is about, and if we do he is justified to assault us and pound our head into the ground.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 9:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 2:25 pm)
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yes, Zimmerman was "profiling" in the sense that he perceived Martin as a potential criminal because he was a stranger who fit the description of past crime suspects in his neighborhood.

Perfect sense.  Profiling and rightfully so.  If Hispanics or whites were breaking into homes in the area I believe he would have followed him or her as well.  Of course if he had killed a white or Hispanic seventeen year old, we wouldn't have all these threads.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 9:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Profiling? Yes. Racially profiling? No.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 11:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jul. 24 2013, 8:14 am)
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Profiling? Yes. Racially profiling? No.

Explain.

I await your answer.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 2:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Profiling works. It simply does. If Trayvon had had a grey beard or been wearing a suit, he would have not been suspected. I remind my son that the world won't see him as the sweet kid asleep.on the couch with a blanket, but as a six-one young man capable of mayhem and to present himself well.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 2:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Did Zimmerman see any other individuals that night before he "profiled" Martin? There is so little we know about the many details of the incident that would enable us to conclude whether or not his actions were racially instigated.

The eternal truth about people is that we judge based on appearance. It is part of our evolution, and in part an ingredient to the success of our species. We constantly evaluate opportunity, risk, and threats in order to survive.

The racism industry wants to make the Zimmerman case exclusively about race, and thus we get trigger words like "profiling" thrown around.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 2:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

To put a different twist on the question, I think that Zimmerman may have profiled himself more than he profiled Martin.  He seems to have had some struggles (who hasn't?) and acting as a community watchman or whatever gave him a chance to overcome them in a beneficial way.

But he went too far.  While it wasn't illegal for him to ignore orders from the 911 operator, it was stupid.

When he called in and reported what he had seen he had done his job.  After that, it was time to wait and let the pros take over.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck after his 911 call I doubt that Martin would be dead and Zimmerman's life would be where it is now.

It's tragic on both sides.  


:(  :(  :(
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 3:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No, Zimmerman was not profiling.

Zimmerman is Hispanic. One minority member cannot profile another minority member, if we want stick with the politically correct definition of the term profiling. Only whites can engage in profiling.

---George
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 3:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

George, that was silly.

Rueben was right on.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 3:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(reubenstump @ Jul. 24 2013, 2:53 pm)
QUOTE
To put a different twist on the question, I think that Zimmerman may have profiled himself more than he profiled Martin.  He seems to have had some struggles (who hasn't?) and acting as a community watchman or whatever gave him a chance to overcome them in a beneficial way.

But he went too far.  While it wasn't illegal for him to ignore orders from the 911 operator, it was stupid.

When he called in and reported what he had seen he had done his job.  After that, it was time to wait and let the pros take over.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck after his 911 call I doubt that Martin would be dead and Zimmerman's life would be where it is now.

It's tragic on both sides.  


:(  :(  :(

Still repeating the false media narrative

Zimmerman received no orders

There is no proof that he followed TM after being told he didn't need to

Who cares if he profiled TM?

It is not a crime and it is not an excuse for TM to assault him

If you have any sense of awareness at all, you profile everyone you see, even if you only do it unconsciously.

GZ made plenty of 911 calls reporting supicious white people, so the results would have been the same if TM was green instead of black...unless being green made him less violent. Then he might have been just fine.

And with TM's background, it is quite plausible that he might have been casing some of the neighbors houses


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 4:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wrong.

Wrong again.  The 911 operator told him to wait.

I do.

Probably should be.  It's hard to tell, but it seems like they may have both made bad decisions which led to tragic consequences for both.

I'm very aware, but I'm long past profiling based on skin color.  I prefer to see how they act.  Actions speak louder than words.

False equivalence.

Plausible?  Anything's possible, but I'd like to see facts which make it more than a 50/50 proposition.  Again, that's where the cops come in, not the community watchman.  No lives were in danger.  Zimmerman did his job by calling in.  Then he should have waited for the pros as instructed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 4:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The 911 operator actually said something far more neutral:

"911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]"
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 5:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Most of us would prefer that TSA move towards profiling. Patting down granny is just stupid IMHO.

Me, I usually profile people as Jehovah's Witnesses in my neighborhood. When I see people dressed a certain way  walking the streets I just don't answer the door bell for at least an hour.

BTW, I think is was pointed out before but 911 dispatchers are not allowed to give directives because of liability issues. As HSF shows no order was given. and for those of you pointing out what GZ did wrong remember TM would still be alive today if one punch to GZ's face had been enough


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 6:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, the insurance companies profile don't they?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 7:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Old white guys that tend towards racism like to profile. Get it. I'm just stating a known fact. Get it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 8:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So insurance companies don't profile?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 8:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd much rather have a neighbor like George Zimmerman than the "wait for the police while Kitty Genovese gets raped and murder" crowd of cowards that are cheerleading for that thug Tyrone Martin.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

“We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.” Anaïs Nin

That applies to most people I think.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 24 2013, 7:59 pm)
QUOTE
I'd much rather have a neighbor like George Zimmerman than the "wait for the police while Kitty Genovese gets raped and murder" crowd of cowards that are cheerleading for that thug Tyrone Martin.

What color is the sky in your world?
(since it's a make-believe place, you can make it any color you want)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 11:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think that it possible to question the justice in all of this without cheerleading anyone. That has been the litmus test of prejudice, so many people believing what they don't know.

Slinger, the insurance industry is the most biased and prejudicial industry on earth. You may support that, but business is about risk, and the day that they can demand a DNA sample to calculate your premiums, they will have reduced their risks and increased your burden by no virtue of which either deserve.

I am more interested in fairness. It is an ancient concept that justice should be blind, not biased by preconceived ideas.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 8:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 24 2013, 4:24 pm)
QUOTE
The 911 operator actually said something far more neutral:

"911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]"

Exactly

Even the prosecution admitted that the advice from the 911 dispatcher was "ambiguous"

Still people believeing what the media told them to....sad

The whole freakin trial is available online in video, and in transcript....perhaps before repeating something stupid everyone could go watch it  :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 8:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bill g @ Jul. 24 2013, 5:16 pm)
QUOTE
Most of us would prefer that TSA move towards profiling. Patting down granny is just stupid IMHO.

Me, I usually profile people as Jehovah's Witnesses in my neighborhood. When I see people dressed a certain way  walking the streets I just don't answer the door bell for at least an hour.

BTW, I think is was pointed out before but 911 dispatchers are not allowed to give directives because of liability issues. As HSF shows no order was given. and for those of you pointing out what GZ did wrong remember TM would still be alive today if one punch to GZ's face had been enough

They profile now....if you are not over 75 or under 12 you are suspicous and have to remove your shoes

More profiling  :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 10:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I believe the media also did their fair share of profiling Zimmerman. With that last name, he had to be white... right?

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