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Topic: If Obama had a son who looked like Chris Cervini.., Michelle would probably be suspicious< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 3:29 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Scott says he acted in self defense when he confronted Cervini and two others saying they were stealing from neighbors cars. He told them he had a gun and ordered them to freeze and wait for police.

Scott says he shot Cervini twice when the victim charged toward him yelling he was going to get Scott.



What Do George Zimmerman and Roderick Scott Have in Common?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 4:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Where's the outrage?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 4:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A couple thoughts...

1. This sentence makes me question everything about this article:

QUOTE
Trayvon Martin – a thug – should have kept going to Brandy Green’s townhouse where he was staying.


What, this is a statement of fact? WTF? Maybe everything else in this article is truthful and untwisted, but this sentence makes me suspect it is not.

2. Both Scott and Zimmerman handled the situation poorly, IMHO. Maybe they're not murderers,  but they're surely not heroes, either (as the right-wing scream machine is making Zimmerman out to be.) Seems like both were playing cowboy, almost as if they were hoping for a confrontation.

3. One important difference is that it appears that Scott witnessed people committing a crime.

4. "Where's the outrage" is such a stupid sentiment. People have to know about something before they can be outraged. When this case gets the kind of media attention that the Zimmerman case has gotten, and no one cares, then we can ask "where's the outrage."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 4:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for posting this, nogods. You've made a very convincing argument for why private citizens shouldn't be allowed to own guns.  :;):

(cweston @ Jul. 23 2013, 1:35 pm)
QUOTE
3. One important difference is that it appears that Scott witnessed people committing a crime.

Exactly. Not just one important difference, but the important difference.

Trayvon didn't have to do anything for Zimmerman to see him as suspicious; to Zimmerman, Trayvon's very existence was suspicious. And all the hand-waving and misdirection by racism denialists can't change that fundamental point.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 5:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:41 pm)
QUOTE
Thanks for posting this, nogods. You've made a very convincing argument for why private citizens shouldn't be allowed to own guns.  :;):

(cweston @ Jul. 23 2013, 1:35 pm)
QUOTE
3. One important difference is that it appears that Scott witnessed people committing a crime.

Exactly. Not just one important difference, but the important difference.

Trayvon didn't have to do anything for Zimmerman to see him as suspicious; to Zimmerman, Trayvon's very existence was suspicious. And all the hand-waving and misdirection by racism denialists can't change that fundamental point.

+1

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 5:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Martin was determined by the jury to be the thug in the incident.

Zimmerman witness a crime being committed - he was the victim of a physical attack by a thug.

Get over it.  Both men were determined by juries to have used their weapons in self defense.  

The difference is that in the Scott case no media ho's looking to rile up the masses tried to exploit the outcome.  No protest, not rioting.  That's the difference.

Both men used their weapons in exactly the way they were designed - to protect themselves.

These cases support the possession of handguns for self protection from injury or death attempted to be inflicted by thugs and criminals.

Don't want to get shot?  Then don't attack law abiding people.  Perhaps the budding Martins a Cervinies will learn that someday.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 5:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:40 pm)
QUOTE
Martin was determined by the jury to be the thug in the incident.

Why is it so difficult for people to simply discuss things without resorting to this sort of horsecrap? The jury determined nothing of the kind. The jury's sole responsibility was to decide whether the state had met the burden of proof for the crimes that Zimmerman was charged with.

QUOTE
Zimmerman witness a crime being committed - he was the victim of a physical attack by a thug.


After he had decided to pursue Martin (who may or may not be a thug, not that that is the issue at hand) with a gun. That's a substantial difference between these two cases, IMHO.

QUOTE
Get over it.  Both men were determined by juries to have used their weapons in self defense.
  

Who are you to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't get over? It's not like people are arguing about the verdict--yes, we all know that juries acquited both Zimmerman and Scott. That's a ridiculously arrogant thing to say.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 6:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:35 pm)
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3. One important difference is that it appears that Scott witnessed people committing a crime.

This is suddenly popping up all over the right wing blogosphere.  This point alone demonstrates what a stupid talking point it is.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 6:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Of course, the article (or whatever that was) doesn't mention that it was 3AM when this happened.

And the kids were apparently drunk or at least had been drinking, and decided they wanted cigarettes.  At 3 in the morning.

And while the article stresses that Chris was an honor student, it doesn't mention that his cousin who was with him was on parole for theft.

And does anyone believe the other two boys, who later claimed to have witnessed Scott shoot Chris while they stood there with their hands up, would have gone home and went to sleep without telling anyone if they had?

Personally, I'm sorry both of these kids were shot and I'm willing to bet that both Scott and Zimmerman would choose a different outcome if they had a chance, but if the point of this story (and the OP) is to show some sort of "reverse discrimination", then I don't see it.

But it's not a bad argument for how owning a firearm for "protection" has its unintentended casualties.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 6:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nogods

Couple of things,

First I've noticed that you have a propensity in you using the word "thug" in conjunction with TM.
While I wouldn't say what I'm about to say necessarily applies to you but I've noticed those who
have use the word "thug" at TM (or use it in conjunction with crime involving blacks) use it in
such a way that you can tell those using that term have extreme hostility to TM or blacks that are
involved in crime(You can just feel the hate oozing from them and rarely do I see that term being
used to anyone else). So I got suspicious and simply did a google search on "thug:" and the n word
and surprise surprise I found hit after hit where many people certainly do use that word as essentially
the equivalent of the N-word.  So again I'm not saying you necessarily use that word "thug" as a
replacement for the N-word but from now on whenever I hear this word used by those who are white
directed at blacks my ears perk up because I think in a lot of cases I know which word they would
really rather use.

Second, Just so I'm clear on your position and specifically your comment of 'Don't want to get shot?  
Then don't attack law abiding people.", If a guy simply hits someone who has a gun, does that gives
that someone the right to then respond by shooting the guy and thus killing them?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 7:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dennis The Menace
QUOTE
If a guy simply hits someone who has a gun, does that gives
that someone the right to then respond by shooting the guy and thus killing them?


It seems that in Florida and other states with self defense laws - justifications for murder - the answer is yes.

That is why those self defense and stand your ground laws must go. Hopefully, the DOJ will retry Zimmerman and void Florida's barbaric self defense laws! The Federal Court can "trump" such state self defense laws that have resulted in the death of so many black children.

That is why the protesters must continue - keep the heat on - until the DOJ charges Zimmerman with a hate crime murder.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 7:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 2:40 pm)
QUOTE
Both men used their weapons in exactly the way they were designed - to protect themselves.

These cases support the possession of handguns for self protection from injury or death attempted to be inflicted by thugs and criminals.

Don't want to get shot?  Then don't attack law abiding people.  Perhaps the budding Martins a Cervinies will learn that someday.

In other words, your gun fetishism is so deeply ingrained that you would rather embrace racism than reconsider gun fetishist talking points in the light of cases like these.

That says a great deal about your character.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 8:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It would seem that some people are pretty self righteous that they are endowed with a sense of Thugar.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 8:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Jul. 23 2013, 7:38 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 2:40 pm)
QUOTE
Both men used their weapons in exactly the way they were designed - to protect themselves.

These cases support the possession of handguns for self protection from injury or death attempted to be inflicted by thugs and criminals.

Don't want to get shot?  Then don't attack law abiding people.  Perhaps the budding Martins a Cervinies will learn that someday.

In other words, your gun fetishism is so deeply ingrained that you would rather embrace racism than reconsider gun fetishist talking points in the light of cases like these.

That says a great deal about your character.

only one person in the Zimmerman case was a proven racist - and it wasn't Zimmerman.

It was Martin.

Only one person in the Zimmerman case used violent illegal force upon another human - and it wasn't Zimmerman.

It was Martin.

You can't run from the facts on this one now that the jury has spoken.  We know why they decided what thy decided.  There is no mystery.  and theiur decision was completely in line with the evidence, even the evidence they didn't get to hear about Martin's violent behavior and self proclamations.

Hey, you think Martin really got into all those fights he bragged about?  Think he really bought and sold those firearms he bragged about?  Think he was really suspended form school and kicked out by his mother?

Your phobia about firearms is so deeply ingrained you are willing to embrace racism and violent criminals rather than reconsider irrational illogical talking points in light of cases like this.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 23 2013, 9:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 8:49 pm)
QUOTE

(TehipiteTom @ Jul. 23 2013, 7:38 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 2:40 pm)
QUOTE
Both men used their weapons in exactly the way they were designed - to protect themselves.

These cases support the possession of handguns for self protection from injury or death attempted to be inflicted by thugs and criminals.

Don't want to get shot?  Then don't attack law abiding people.  Perhaps the budding Martins a Cervinies will learn that someday.

In other words, your gun fetishism is so deeply ingrained that you would rather embrace racism than reconsider gun fetishist talking points in the light of cases like these.

That says a great deal about your character.

only one person in the Zimmerman case was a proven racist - and it wasn't Zimmerman.

It was Martin.

Only one person in the Zimmerman case used violent illegal force upon another human - and it wasn't Zimmerman.

It was Martin.

You can't run from the facts on this one now that the jury has spoken.  We know why they decided what thy decided.  There is no mystery.  and theiur decision was completely in line with the evidence, even the evidence they didn't get to hear about Martin's violent behavior and self proclamations.

Hey, you think Martin really got into all those fights he bragged about?  Think he really bought and sold those firearms he bragged about?  Think he was really suspended form school and kicked out by his mother?

Your phobia about firearms is so deeply ingrained you are willing to embrace racism and violent criminals rather than reconsider irrational illogical talking points in light of cases like this.

Your opinions ain't facts dude. No matter how loudly you scream otherwise.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 8:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 5:40 pm)
QUOTE
Martin was determined by the jury to be the thug in the incident.

According to your logic, the "OJ" jury decided that Nicole Brown Simpson was a drug-using whore and Ron Goldman was a thug who deserved to be murdered.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:54 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:40 pm)
QUOTE
Martin was determined by the jury to be the thug in the incident.

Why is it so difficult for people to simply discuss things without resorting to this sort of horsecrap? The jury determined nothing of the kind. The jury's sole responsibility was to decide whether the state had met the burden of proof for the crimes that Zimmerman was charged with.

QUOTE
Zimmerman witness a crime being committed - he was the victim of a physical attack by a thug.


After he had decided to pursue Martin (who may or may not be a thug, not that that is the issue at hand) with a gun. That's a substantial difference between these two cases, IMHO.

QUOTE
Get over it.  Both men were determined by juries to have used their weapons in self defense.
  

Who are you to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't get over? It's not like people are arguing about the verdict--yes, we all know that juries acquited both Zimmerman and Scott. That's a ridiculously arrogant thing to say.

^THIS^

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 10:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 7:49 pm)
QUOTE
Your phobia about firearms is so deeply ingrained you are willing to embrace racism and violent criminals rather than reconsider irrational illogical talking points in light of cases like this.

Oh the irony!

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 12:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 23 2013, 5:49 pm)
QUOTE
only one person in the Zimmerman case was a proven racist - and it wasn't Zimmerman.

It was Martin.

Only one person in the Zimmerman case used violent illegal force upon another human - and it wasn't Zimmerman.

It was Martin.

You can't run from the facts on this one now that the jury has spoken.  We know why they decided what thy decided.  There is no mystery.  and theiur decision was completely in line with the evidence, even the evidence they didn't get to hear about Martin's violent behavior and self proclamations.

Hey, you think Martin really got into all those fights he bragged about?  Think he really bought and sold those firearms he bragged about?  Think he was really suspended form school and kicked out by his mother?

Your phobia about firearms is so deeply ingrained you are willing to embrace racism and violent criminals rather than reconsider irrational illogical talking points in light of cases like this.

There's nothing more for you to say; you've already told us who you really are.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 3:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Jul. 23 2013, 6:17 pm)
QUOTE
Nogods

Couple of things,

First I've noticed that you have a propensity in you using the word "thug" in conjunction with TM.
While I wouldn't say what I'm about to say necessarily applies to you but I've noticed those who
have use the word "thug" at TM (or use it in conjunction with crime involving blacks) use it in
such a way that you can tell those using that term have extreme hostility to TM or blacks that are
involved in crime(You can just feel the hate oozing from them and rarely do I see that term being
used to anyone else). So I got suspicious and simply did a google search on "thug:" and the n word
and surprise surprise I found hit after hit where many people certainly do use that word as essentially
the equivalent of the N-word.  So again I'm not saying you necessarily use that word "thug" as a
replacement for the N-word but from now on whenever I hear this word used by those who are white
directed at blacks my ears perk up because I think in a lot of cases I know which word they would
really rather use.

Second, Just so I'm clear on your position and specifically your comment of 'Don't want to get shot?  
Then don't attack law abiding people.", If a guy simply hits someone who has a gun, does that gives
that someone the right to then respond by shooting the guy and thus killing them?

Exactly

Calling TM a thug is like calling GZ a vigilante or a wannabe cop   :laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 3:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:41 pm)
QUOTE
And all the hand-waving and misdirection by racism denialists can't change that fundamental point.

It also cannot make that fundamental point important in any conceivable way

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 3:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news....assault

So I guess this actual cop "got what he had coming" since he pursued this teen over a simple bit of petty vandalism

This illustrates clearly what might have happened had GZ not been armed


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 4:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Jul. 23 2013, 6:17 pm)
QUOTE
Nogods

Couple of things,

First I've noticed that you have a propensity in you using the word "thug" in conjunction with TM.
While I wouldn't say what I'm about to say necessarily applies to you ...

Maybe it's an upstate NY thing. My friends and I use "thug" all the time to describe people engaging in violent crime, and have never used it as a racial slur of any type.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 24 2013, 11:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Jul. 24 2013, 12:28 pm)
QUOTE

(TehipiteTom @ Jul. 23 2013, 4:41 pm)
QUOTE
And all the hand-waving and misdirection by racism denialists can't change that fundamental point.

It also cannot make that fundamental point important in any conceivable way

The fact that a class of people are routinely judged by the color of their skin rather than by individual conduct is of no importance whatsoever...to a sociopath.

Some of us are not sociopaths.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 12:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

BillBab said
QUOTE

Exactly

Calling TM a thug is like calling GZ a vigilante or a wannabe cop  


not exactly

not even close to exactly

Show me the slew of examples where someone calls someone "a wannabe cop""(haven't seen the label
"vigilante" being applied to GZ the way "wannabe cop" was or the way "thug" has been applied
to TM) in conjunction with a racial slur directed at whites because just by doing a simple
google search of "thug" and "n*g*e*" I can clearly show there are plenty of people using the
word "thug" in a similar fashion to the racial slur "n*g*e*"?


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