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Topic: A Juror Speaks - Zimmerman got away with murder< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 6:06 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
A juror in the George Zimmerman trial says she feels the man who killed Trayvon Martin "got away with murder."
"George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with," Juror B29 told ABC, according to an article posted on the network's website Thursday. "(But) the law couldn't prove it."


http://www.cnn.com/2013....t=hp_t1
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 6:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

She sound like an emotionally needy person.  Claiming someone committed murder despite the fact that there was no evidence he committed murder doesn't sound very sane to me.  The last paragraph gives some context to her irrational claims - she's looking for attention:

QUOTE
"It's hard for me to sleep, it's hard for me to eat because I feel I was forcefully included in Trayvon Martin's death," she told ABC. "And as I carry him on my back, I'm hurting as much (as) Trayvon Martin's mother because there's no way that any mother should feel that pain."


I wonder if she blames Martin's mother for his death.  If she hadn't thrown him out of the house he wouldn't have been staying at his father's girlfriend's house, and he wouldn't have committed a felony that cost him his life.

Some christian group should be blaming Martin's father - if he wasn't fornicating with his girlfriend then Martin wouldn't have been there that night.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 6:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

LOL - Originally my post included this line, "Bet Nogods will be quick to dismiss this juror's opinions," but I deleted it to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Speaking of emotional, what's up with you anyway?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 7:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, I agree with her statement completely.  

Just where I am, convinced that Zimmerman got away with intentional murder, but also very much aware that the Prosecutor could not produce the evidence to prove those facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you follow the law, you have to find him not guilty, but just like OJ that does not mean that he did not committ murder.

I so much hope that Trayvon's family sue him for wrongful death and win.  No guilt beyond a reasonable doubt needed there, just a preponderance of evidence.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 7:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The evidence is that Zimmerman suffered a physical assault at Martin's hands. Injuries to prove it and damage to Martin's hands to substantiate the assault. A witness testified to seeing someone, Martin? straddling another person and beating him. That is consistent with the injuries as being Zimmerman being beaten by Martin.

There is no "evidence" to indicate with any "preponderance" who started the physical fight.

Arguments can be made against Zimmerman's statements and the detectives judgement as to his veracity (in that at least one testified he believed Zimmerman): but "evidence"? No.

Were there to be a civil trial, given the "evidence" the arguments would be character and circumstance. Martin's as well as Zimmerman's. Given various details about Martin's school suspension, cell phone text records and such that may be a tricky door to open.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 7:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Quite frankly, I could care less about any of the juror's opinions,  After all, they weren't even smart enough to get out of jury duty...
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 7:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You wonder how one could be so convinced of his guilt.  There was not one shred of evidence to prove intentional murder, or any other crime was committed.  Stupidity is not a crime.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 7:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So now she's lying?
QUOTE
On the second day of deliberations, she decided under Florida law there was not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter, according to the Huffington Post.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 8:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hiker01 @ Jul. 25 2013, 7:49 pm)
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You wonder how one could be so convinced of his guilt.  There was not one shred of evidence to prove intentional murder, or any other crime was committed.  Stupidity is not a crime.

Which is why he got away with it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 10:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 25 2013, 7:36 pm)
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The evidence is that Zimmerman suffered a physical assault at Martin's hands. Injuries to prove it and damage to Martin's hands to substantiate the assault. A witness testified to seeing someone, Martin? straddling another person and beating him. That is consistent with the injuries as being Zimmerman being beaten by Martin.

There is no "evidence" to indicate with any "preponderance" who started the physical fight.

Arguments can be made against Zimmerman's statements and the detectives judgement as to his veracity (in that at least one testified he believed Zimmerman): but "evidence"? No.

Were there to be a civil trial, given the "evidence" the arguments would be character and circumstance. Martin's as well as Zimmerman's. Given various details about Martin's school suspension, cell phone text records and such that may be a tricky door to open.

I'm in almost total agreement.

Z started and pursued a process that any reasonable person should have forseen was likely to have a bad ending.

Most of us would have heard a little voice saying "...good chance this stranger you're following is going to kick your butt ..".

Z probably heard that little voice, but  ignored it.

The next voice he heard, when TM was on top, said "....actually, it's going to be worse than a butt kicking....'.

The 3rd, and final voice said "...OK, dumb a**, now you're going to have to shoot...".


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 25 2013, 6:27 pm)
QUOTE
She sound like an emotionally needy person.  Claiming someone committed murder despite the fact that there was no evidence he committed murder doesn't sound very sane to me.  The last paragraph gives some context to her irrational claims - she's looking for attention:

QUOTE
"It's hard for me to sleep, it's hard for me to eat because I feel I was forcefully included in Trayvon Martin's death," she told ABC. "And as I carry him on my back, I'm hurting as much (as) Trayvon Martin's mother because there's no way that any mother should feel that pain."


I wonder if she blames Martin's mother for his death.  If she hadn't thrown him out of the house he wouldn't have been staying at his father's girlfriend's house, and he wouldn't have committed a felony that cost him his life.

Some christian group should be blaming Martin's father - if he wasn't fornicating with his girlfriend then Martin wouldn't have been there that night.

Noticing the contrast between Nogods reaction to this jury and the other juror that he made a thread out
of?

Irrational claims? the Juror that you made a thread out of was sure the voice of someone screaming
was that of Z even though clearly there was no conclusive evidence either way. That same juror cited
Sanford Police Detective Chris Serino as making a big impression on her and more specifically saying
how Serino believed Z but the judge specifically threw out that testimoney from Serino So it sounds
like the juror made her decision in large part on testimoney that the judge told them to ignore. This is
also the same juror that came to the conclusion that Z was a good guy even though Z never testified.  
This is the juror you choose to use to support your position while trying to discredit this one.
Really consistent there nogods(NOT!!)

and you keep saying he committing a felony but the jury didn't decide on that since TM wasn't
on trial. If by chance TM was shot,survived and then was on trial for assault then we would have heard
his side of the story with the possibility of a whole new line of evidence not to mention that
his lawyers would have actively tried to defend him on that accusation where as the case against ZM
didn't focus on that(at least not directly).

Oh and "fornicating"? That is the kind of rhetoric a religious zealot would use.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 7:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I support FIJA and if the juror really felt the law(s) were/are wrong, she should have stuck it out and caused a hung jury.

My opinion is she now realizes how extreme the public response is against the verdict and those who rendered it and is trying to backtrack to save her butt by saying she "didn't really mean it".


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 8:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 25 2013, 6:36 pm)
QUOTE
The evidence is that Zimmerman suffered a physical assault at Martin's hands. Injuries to prove it and damage to Martin's hands to substantiate the assault. A witness testified to seeing someone, Martin? straddling another person and beating him. That is consistent with the injuries as being Zimmerman being beaten by Martin.

There is no "evidence" to indicate with any "preponderance" who started the physical fight.

Arguments can be made against Zimmerman's statements and the detectives judgement as to his veracity (in that at least one testified he believed Zimmerman): but "evidence"? No.

Were there to be a civil trial, given the "evidence" the arguments would be character and circumstance. Martin's as well as Zimmerman's. Given various details about Martin's school suspension, cell phone text records and such that may be a tricky door to open.

I agree. The physical evidence, witnesses, cellphone time stamps, etc - the FACTS - support your position.

BUT, this juror, the NAACP, and many in the public believe that Zimmerman got away with murder BECAUSE of Florida's self defense law. People are demanding that the "self defense justification" - as well as the "stand your ground" justification - be removed from Florida and other state laws BECAUSE they feel that Zimmerman PROVOKED Martin by following him.

They feel that Zimmerman should not have been able to claim self defense when he started the fight by getting out of his truck and following Martin.

But Florida's barbaric self defense justification for murder allowed Zimmerman to walk! That needs to be changed!

A person should not be allowed to PROVOKE some someone, by following them - or maybe wearing a "pro abortion" tee shirt. Then when the offended person physically attacks the person who PROVOKED them in anger and bangs their head on the concrete - the person who PROVOKED, now fearing for their life, should NOT be able to murder their attacker and get off by claiming self defense! THAT IS JUST WRONG!

I agree that the "not guilty" verdict was correct by the letter of Florida's barbaric self defense law. But like the juror, I feel that Zimmerman got away with murder.

I am hoping that the DOJ will retry Zimmerman with civil rights murder with more blacks on the jury and overrule Florida's barbaric self defense law. The precedent set in the Federal court would void and law and save the lives of thousands of black babies from murderers like Zimmerman.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 8:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montanalonewolf
QUOTE
she should have stuck it out and caused a hung jury


I think - but am not sure - that all the jurors did not have to vote "not guilty" in order for Zimmerman to be freed.

Someone who knows more about the law than I do may be able to clear this up.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 8:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
when he started the fight by getting out of his truck and following Martin....
....or maybe wearing a "pro abortion" tee shirt.

So you're saying that if I disagree with abortion, I have a legal right to beat the crap out of someone because they "provoked" me? Does that then make it legal for me to blow up or burn an abortion center because I was "provoked"? How about killing the abortion doctor to save the lives of the unborn? After it, murdering innocents is legal justification for a lethal defense from me under every law.

Following someone is not legal provocation for a physical attack unless there is an overt threat by the follower,

And neither is wearing a pro or anti T-shirt anything or displaying an "offensive" bumper sticker,


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 12:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This juror was clearly not very bright.  She voted NG because the state could not prove "intent."  Was intent ever at issue?  Zimmerman admitted that he intentionally shot TM.  What was at issue was whether or not the state could disprove self defense.  If she's not bright enough  understand the basic issue, maybe she shouldn't have been on the jury.

Really this case wasn't that complicated.  There are much more complicated legal cases tried frequently with similiar jurors.  For instance medical malpractices cases where several different specialties are implicated.  Then J Q Juror with no eductation doesn't understand the implications but still drops the hammer on somebody for a multi-million dollar verdict.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 12:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Jul. 25 2013, 7:38 pm)
QUOTE
Quite frankly, I could care less about any of the juror's opinions,  After all, they weren't even smart enough to get out of jury duty...

Jury duty is a citizen's duty and shouldn't be shirked.  Every bit as important as military service.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 2:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I give her a lot of credit

Despite her "feelings"  she followed the rule of law

Too many times people make up their mind based on everything BUT the facts...like wwwest for instance.

People that are willing to see someone incarcerated or financially ruined simply based on a feeling

Happily, one of the basic principles of our legal system is that it is better that several bad guys go free that one innocent man suffer unjustly

I was surprised that they could find 6 people that had not been conditioned by the media to lynch GZ no matter what.

Every time I see some poor bastard freed by exculpatory evidence after several years in prison, I chalk it up to people feeling when they should be thinking. To find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt should require a quality of evidence that should preclude that type of thing happening

Unfortunately, everyone can feel but too few people can think logically

Also,  I heard someone say that she went public in part because she feared retaliation by the black community...which is sad but hardly surprising


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 2:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Jul. 26 2013, 8:00 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 25 2013, 6:36 pm)
QUOTE
The evidence is that Zimmerman suffered a physical assault at Martin's hands. Injuries to prove it and damage to Martin's hands to substantiate the assault. A witness testified to seeing someone, Martin? straddling another person and beating him. That is consistent with the injuries as being Zimmerman being beaten by Martin.

There is no "evidence" to indicate with any "preponderance" who started the physical fight.

Arguments can be made against Zimmerman's statements and the detectives judgement as to his veracity (in that at least one testified he believed Zimmerman): but "evidence"? No.

Were there to be a civil trial, given the "evidence" the arguments would be character and circumstance. Martin's as well as Zimmerman's. Given various details about Martin's school suspension, cell phone text records and such that may be a tricky door to open.

I agree. The physical evidence, witnesses, cellphone time stamps, etc - the FACTS - support your position.

BUT, this juror, the NAACP, and many in the public believe that Zimmerman got away with murder BECAUSE of Florida's self defense law. People are demanding that the "self defense justification" - as well as the "stand your ground" justification - be removed from Florida and other state laws BECAUSE they feel that Zimmerman PROVOKED Martin by following him.

They feel that Zimmerman should not have been able to claim self defense when he started the fight by getting out of his truck and following Martin.

But Florida's barbaric self defense justification for murder allowed Zimmerman to walk! That needs to be changed!

A person should not be allowed to PROVOKE some someone, by following them - or maybe wearing a "pro abortion" tee shirt. Then when the offended person physically attacks the person who PROVOKED them in anger and bangs their head on the concrete - the person who PROVOKED, now fearing for their life, should NOT be able to murder their attacker and get off by claiming self defense! THAT IS JUST WRONG!

I agree that the "not guilty" verdict was correct by the letter of Florida's barbaric self defense law. But like the juror, I feel that Zimmerman got away with murder.

I am hoping that the DOJ will retry Zimmerman with civil rights murder with more blacks on the jury and overrule Florida's barbaric self defense law. The precedent set in the Federal court would void and law and save the lives of thousands of black babies from murderers like Zimmerman.

Man, the media brainwashing is deeper than I thought

I believe justifiable homicide is a valid defense in all 50 states...certainly in most all of them

Thank god.......

In this woman's world view, all killing is murder

That, and the fact that here view lines up with wwwest shows she is rather simple :)


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(BillBab @ Jul. 26 2013, 12:36 pm)
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In this woman's world view, all killing is murder

I didn't know Bass was on the jury...
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 7:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here is a little more critical review of her "statement"

http://www.slate.com/article....le.html

The media just can't stop trying to throw gas on this fire


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 8:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
According to ABC News, when Roberts asked “whether the case should have gone to trial,” Maddy answered, "I don't think so. … I felt like this was a publicity stunt.


QUOTE
To the extent she feels racial or ethnic pressure, it’s against Zimmerman


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 8:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Jul. 27 2013, 6:56 am)
QUOTE
Here is a little more critical review of her "statement"

http://www.slate.com/article....le.html

The media just can't stop trying to throw gas on this fire

+1 Great link! The title of the link, "Did George Zimmerman Get Away With Murder?", and subtitle, "The media are reporting that a juror says Zimmerman is guilty of murder. That’s not true." tell all.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I watched almost all of the trial on television. So I know what was really said in the Florida courtroom. But I have been struck at how much such editing and spin the media has engaged in - and even outright lies.

So the link that you posted is a real "breath of fresh air". The interview, unedited with the media's agenda, tells a different story - the truth. The jury came to the correct "not guilty" verdict based on Florida law. From the link:

This is what she’s really trying to convey. “Maybe if they would put [out] the law, and a lot of people would read it, they would understand the choices that they gave us,” she says.

and:

“A lot of us had wanted to find something bad, something that we could connect to the law,” she says. “We felt he was guilty,” she adds in other comments quoted by ABC News. “But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence."

Zimmerman was freed because of Florida's self defense law - not because of "stand your ground" or an "all white jury". The jury ruled on the evidence and the law - not their hearts and feelings.

Florida's barbaric self defense law freed Zimmerman. That is why the DOJ must step in and retry Zimmerman.

Thanks for posting the link.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 29 2013, 6:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here is another excellent review of the false media narrative that so many racists on TPA simply cannot let go of

http://reason.com/archive....lsenews

One constant in this case has been the media's willingness to ignore , and in some cases change , the facts to fit the narrative

I am amazed that GZ could get a fair trial after over a year of mainstream misinformation


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 29 2013, 11:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Jul. 29 2013, 6:33 am)
QUOTE
Here is another excellent review of the false media narrative that so many racists on TPA simply cannot let go of

http://reason.com/archive....lsenews

One constant in this case has been the media's willingness to ignore , and in some cases change , the facts to fit the narrative

I am amazed that GZ could get a fair trial after over a year of mainstream misinformation

Are you disputing the facts that Fat Boy Z followed Martin, shot and killed him?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 29 2013, 12:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Jul. 29 2013, 11:33 am)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Jul. 29 2013, 6:33 am)
QUOTE
Here is another excellent review of the false media narrative that so many racists on TPA simply cannot let go of

http://reason.com/archive....lsenews

One constant in this case has been the media's willingness to ignore , and in some cases change , the facts to fit the narrative

I am amazed that GZ could get a fair trial after over a year of mainstream misinformation

Are you disputing the facts that Fat Boy Z followed Martin, shot and killed him?

Of course he did those things. Those are the facts of the case.

But the Racism Industry would have us all believe that Z's motive was entirely racial, as was the decision of the jury.

Bad judgment manifests itself in many different ways in this world. Racism accounts for only a smidgen of why things go horribly wrong in society.


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(HighGravity @ Jul. 29 2013, 9:33 am)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Jul. 29 2013, 6:33 am)
QUOTE
Here is another excellent review of the false media narrative that so many racists on TPA simply cannot let go of

http://reason.com/archive....lsenews

One constant in this case has been the media's willingness to ignore , and in some cases change , the facts to fit the narrative

I am amazed that GZ could get a fair trial after over a year of mainstream misinformation

Are you disputing the facts that Fat Boy Z followed Martin, shot and killed him?

Those are only 3 of the facts of the case of about 50 others that mean just as much or more. Ignoring those other facts is what you and so many others are doing.

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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