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Topic: A fact about Food stamps you may not know< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 15 2013, 9:30 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


Among the 254 counties where food stamp recipients doubled between 2007 and 2011, Republican Mitt Romney won 213 of them in last year’s presidential election, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data compiled by Bloomberg. Kentucky’s Owsley County, which backed Romney with 81 percent of its vote, has the largest proportion of food stamp recipients among those that he carried.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news....ls.html

Isn't the narrative put forth by conservative Republicans contrary to the above?


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 7:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Food stamps are linked to unemployment.  When people lose their jobs, I don't find it surprising that they would blame the current administration and vote for the other guy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 9:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Exactly Lamebeaver. The fact that the rate doubled showed that many had lost good paying jobs. I wonder how many counties Obama carried where the rate remained relatively stable, indicating that people in those counties are perpetually poor.

ETA - What it really comes down to is urban vs rural, regardless of unemployment or food stamp rate.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 9:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Aug. 15 2013, 9:30 pm)
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Isn't the narrative put forth by conservative Republicans contrary to the above?

Nope.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Aug. 16 2013, 9:38 am)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Aug. 15 2013, 9:30 pm)
QUOTE
Isn't the narrative put forth by conservative Republicans contrary to the above?

Nope.

Republican "Red" states are more often than not the driving force behind the accumulation of our debt. Despite the rhetorical, deceitful tripe of folks like Mitch McConnell, etc., solidly Red states like Mississippi, Alabama, edtc. take far more per capita from the treasury than they put in per capita.

This hypocrisy so many uneducated Americans can't grasp has been here for a heck of a long time.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 10:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My guess is that everyone in this thread is partially correct.

I'm sure there are many counties with a high level of food stamp recipients which are very heavily GOP and where "pretty-much everyone" voted for Romney. And yes, that does seem like there is some cognitive dissonance involved, when the GOP is openly hostile to programs like food stamps.

But I think Lamebeaver's point has merit, too.

You'd have to see the actual breakdown of counties and their voting histories to know which specific places fit which narrative.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 10:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 16 2013, 10:06 am)
QUOTE
My guess is that everyone in this thread is partially correct.

I'm sure there are many counties with a high level of food stamp recipients which are very heavily GOP and where "pretty-much everyone" voted for Romney. And yes, that does seem like there is some cognitive dissonance involved, when the GOP is openly hostile to programs like food stamps.

But I think Lamebeaver's point has merit, too.

You'd have to see the actual breakdown of counties and their voting histories to know which specific places fit which narrative.

Hmmm, this may be another of those "false narratives" that are floating around.

Is the GOP "openly hostile to programs like food stamps", or is it openly hostile to the misuse and abuse that is going on in the food stamp program and opposed to the unreasonable expansion of the program?

In like manner, is the GOP opposed to FEMA?  Or opposed to the misuse and abuse of FEMA funds, and opposed to large new FEMA expenditures that are not offset by cuts elsewhere in the budget?
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 10:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Aug. 16 2013, 9:18 am)
QUOTE
Hmmm, this may be another of those "false narratives" that are floating around.

Is the GOP "openly hostile to programs like food stamps", or is it openly hostile to the misuse and abuse that is going on in the food stamp program and opposed to the unreasonable expansion of the program?

This is a sidetrack, but who, exactly, is against minimizing misuse and abuse in the food stamp program? If there were some proposal on the table which sought to address those issues, with no other partisan-agenda-driven strings attached, would anyone oppose it?

Of course we don't want people abusing these programs, but this is almost always a political canard. I suspect that employees stealing office supplies and padding travel expense accounts probably accounts for far more wasted dollars in our economy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 10:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 16 2013, 10:29 am)
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This is a sidetrack.....

Is it?

QUOTE
....but who, exactly, is against minimizing misuse and abuse in the food stamp program?
And who, exactly, is opposed to the food stamp program?  I believe this issue feeds into the decades old narrative that says the GOP wants to starve impoverished old folks and children, or reduce them to eating cat food.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 10:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm not here to play games. No one said anyone was "opposed to the food stamp program."
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 12:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 16 2013, 10:49 am)
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I'm not here to play games. No one said anyone was "opposed to the food stamp program."

I'n not "playing games".  Apparently I misunderstood when you said "the GOP is openly hostile to programs like food stamps".

Please clarify your meaning so I can properly address it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 12:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 16 2013, 10:49 am)
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I'm not here to play games. No one said anyone was "opposed to the food stamp program."

Cweston

Its Ken's specialty is to play games and in particular to spew strawman(all the while accusing others of
committing strawman) like  claiming someone else said something that they didn't say

Now time and time again the narrative put forth by many conservatives has most certainly been that those
taking food stamps are most likely to be liberal or at the very least conservatives are most likely to
bash those on food stamps,(anyone who denies this either  hasn't been paying attention or just lying)
.... but if this is true one should expect those in red states less likely to take advantage of food
stamps than blue states but according to that article that doesn't seem to be true


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 12:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's pretty straightforward. When you oppose a program, that means you don't want it to exist, and you vote/advocate accordingly. It's a very transparent position

When you are hostile toward a program, you probably aren't advocating for elimination, probably for political or tactical reasons. But you are trying to contain it, limit it, etc. It's a less transparent position.

I have more respect for the former, generally. Example: I'm pro choice, generally. (With Bill Clinton, I'd like to see abortion be safe, legal, and rare.) But I have no issue whatsoever with pro life people who advocate for the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

However, I have less respect for those who take the other tact: advocating for various policies that chip away at people's access to legal abortions. To me, it's either legal or it's not.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Aug. 16 2013, 7:23 am)
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Food stamps are linked to unemployment.  When people lose their jobs, I don't find it surprising that they would blame the current administration and vote for the other guy.

Well then I would break those states down into both red, blue and purple and then break those same states
down by unemployment rate(byOctober of 2012) and see if that holds true. If you're correct the states
with the highest unemployment rate should have voted for Romney and the states with the lowest unemployment
rate should vote for Obama.  I don't think that is the case but I will track this info down


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 12:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Aug. 16 2013, 7:23 am)
QUOTE
Food stamps are linked to unemployment.  When people lose their jobs, I don't find it surprising that they would blame the current administration and vote for the other guy.

check this link out

http://www.usatoday.com/story....1716621

In addition to pointing out that unemployment fell for 37 states in October 2012 it lists
the unemployment rate for each state for 2012 October 2012. With the exception of the
high unemployment states in the southeast it looks like the states with the highest
unemployment rate voted for Obama and those with the lowest(mountain states and north
Midwest plain states like the Dakotas) voted for Romney.  In short it looks the
red states that usually vote Republican still voted Republican and the blue states
that usually vote Democratic voted Democratic. Doesn't seem like you were correct.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 16 2013, 12:27 pm)
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It's pretty straightforward. When you oppose a program, that means you don't want it to exist, and you vote/advocate accordingly. It's a very transparent position

When you are hostile toward a program, you probably aren't advocating for elimination, probably for political or tactical reasons. But you are trying to contain it, limit it, etc. It's a less transparent position.

OK, so you're saying that being "openly hostile" to a program is not the same as being "opposed" to a program.  I did not consider that being "openly hostile" and being "opposed" were subtantively different.  Mea culpa.

Then let me rephrase my original question, taking care to use the same terminology.

And who, exactly, is against the food stamp program?  I believe this issue feeds into the decades old narrative that says the GOP wants to starve impoverished old folks and children, or reduce them to eating cat food.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Aug. 16 2013, 12:03 pm)
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And who, exactly, is against the food stamp program?  I believe this issue feeds into the decades old narrative that says the GOP wants to starve impoverished old folks and children, or reduce them to eating cat food.

The Farm Bill which came out of the House Ag Committee would force about 2 million current food stamp recipients out of the program.

The Paul Ryan budget, which has been endorsed by just about every GOP politician out there, calls for converting the program to a block grant program to the states, with sharply reduced total spending.

I think we're playing games if we call these policies anything but "hostile toward the food stamp program."
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So here is a Republican congressman telling a story recently about people on food stamps


"Every lane was open and it was backed up and I noticed everybody was giving that card," Mullin said,
apparently referring to the electronic benefit transfer cards most states use to distribute food stamps.
"They had these huge baskets, and I realized it was the first of the month."

In Virginia, food stamp benefits are automatically deposited on the first of the month for anyone whose
case number ends in zero, one, two or three.

"But then I’m looking over, and there’s a couple beside me," Mullin continued. "This guy was built like a
brick house. I mean he had muscles all over him. He was in a little tank top and pair of shorts and really
nice Nike shoes. And she was standing there, and she was all in shape and she looked like she had just
come from a fitness program. She was in the spandex, and you know, they were both physically fit. And they
go up in front of me and they pay with that card."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013....70.html

So here are some questions.

What narrative is this congressman trying to convey about those on food stamps?

Is this Republican trying to convey a narrative that is uncommon among Republicans?

Why is this congressmen talking about this now?

Is it just a coincidence or is it related to the fact that Republicans have proposed cutting the food stamp
program by 40 billion(granted its over a decade)?

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news....am?lite


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 16 2013, 1:14 pm)
QUOTE

(KenV @ Aug. 16 2013, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE
And who, exactly, is against the food stamp program?  I believe this issue feeds into the decades old narrative that says the GOP wants to starve impoverished old folks and children, or reduce them to eating cat food.

The Farm Bill which came out of the House Ag Committee would force about 2 million current food stamp recipients out of the program.

The Paul Ryan budget, which has been endorsed by just about every GOP politician out there, calls for converting the program to a block grant program to the states, with sharply reduced total spending.

I think we're playing games if we call these policies anything but "hostile toward the food stamp program."

I iunderstand your position, but must disagree.

I believe the food stamp program has gotten out of control and is no longer being managed to its original intent.  So in that sense, you are correct that the GOP is "openly hostile" to the way the food stamp program is currently being managed as well as "openly hostile" to the current intent of the food stamp program.

I believe the proposed measures you cited would likely bring the program under control and would likely return the program to its original intent.

I do NOT believe those are "games".
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder, how many people who believe the food stamp program is "out of control" are basing
their belief on actual facts rather than some false narrative they heard from some Republican
polititican or right-wing pundit?  How many people should be using the food stamp program
the last 5 years given the state of the economy? Is this a time where we should be cutting back
on food stamps?


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Aug. 16 2013, 1:24 pm)
QUOTE
So here are some questions.

What narrative is this congressman trying to convey about those on food stamps?

I believe the narrative is that the food stamp program is mismanaged, out of control and being used for an intent different that its original intent with the result that it is benefitting people who do not need its benefits.

QUOTE
Is this Republican trying to convey a narrative that is uncommon among Republicans?
I have no clue how "common" this view is to Republicans or to Democrats.

QUOTE
Why is this congressmen talking about this now?
Becasue it is topic being debated in Congress, with Rs attempting to rein in what they view as an out of control program growing at an unsustainable rate, and Ds wanting to further expand the program.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Aug. 16 2013, 1:34 pm)
QUOTE
I wonder, how many people who believe the food stamp program is "out of control" are basing
their belief on actual facts rather than some false narrative they heard from some Republican
polititican or right-wing pundit?  

How many?  I have no clue.  Perhaps Dennis can  provide some data.

QUOTE
How many people should be using the food stamp program the last 5 years given the state of the economy?
Given the recovery that happened years ago, far FEWER people should be using the food stamp program than are currently using it.

QUOTE
Is this a time where we should be cutting back
on food stamps?
I believe YES.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


Conservative critics of SNAP and other federal social programs like to portray them as turning
the United States into an "entitlement society" by undermining the work ethic and creating a
class of people dependent on government programs. That's not true of SNAP and it's not true of
other federal health and income security programs. CBPP analysis finds that more than 90 percent
of the benefit dollars that these programs spend go to assist people who are elderly,
disabled or members of working households – not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose
not to work.

[Read the U.S. News Debate: Should Balancing the Federal Budget Be a Top Policy Priority?]

The "entitlement society" myth is often paired with similarly discredited arguments that SNAP and
other federal social programs are poorly run or have high administrative costs. In fact, SNAP has
a strong record of efficiency. It has one of the most rigorous quality control systems of any
public benefit program. SNAP error rates (benefit overpayments and underpayments) are at an all-time
low; just 3 percent of benefits went to ineligible households or exceeded the allowable benefit for
eligible households. Moreover, honest mistakes by recipients, eligibility workers, data entry clerks
or computer programmers – not fraud – account for an overwhelming majority of such overpayments.


http://www.usnews.com/opinion....icienty


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 1:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

well I can at least see that it looks like Kenv is basing his belief not on actual facts but on a false premise.

I also thinks amazing that anyone could be so naive to think Republicans position on this is based on a belief that
food stamps need to be reined in because they are out of control rather than Republicans seeing this is a great
political issue to rally their base


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 2:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh and BTW we are STILL in the recovery.  The recession was the worst since the depression and so
a recovery just doesn't go away just like that. Unemployment is still high(7.4 %).

It should be noted that Republicans didn't care much for the passing subsides for farmers in
the farm bill so we are to believe that subsidies for farmers aren't wasteful but food
stamps are? Since when did Republicans have a good record about cleaning up waste anyway?


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

oops I said
"It should be noted that Republicans didn't care much for the passing subsides for farmers in
the farm bill"

That obviously should have been "did care much"

here are some good links on what SNAP actually does

http://www.offthechartsblog.org/setting....ed-tape

http://www.offthechartsblog.org/tag/facts-on-SNAP-series/


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 8:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Aug. 16 2013, 10:30 am)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Aug. 16 2013, 7:23 am)
QUOTE
Food stamps are linked to unemployment.  When people lose their jobs, I don't find it surprising that they would blame the current administration and vote for the other guy.

Well then I would break those states down into both red, blue and purple and then break those same states
down by unemployment rate(byOctober of 2012) and see if that holds true. If you're correct the states
with the highest unemployment rate should have voted for Romney and the states with the lowest unemployment
rate should vote for Obama.  I don't think that is the case but I will track this info down

Close, but not quite.  I belive the counties that suffered the highest increase in unemployment while Obama was in office voted for Romney.

In this particular case, it's not overall unemployment or poverty, but INCREASE in unemployment during that time period.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 16 2013, 9:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lamebeaver

well I guess you said "I believe" rather than "I think" because you're saying this not because you have
any particular facts to cite.

As I pointed out in my 2nd reply to you(you saw this right?) the states that voted for Romney are the same
states that typically vote Republican

In the same post I linked to this link

This link-> http://www.usatoday.com/story....1716621

The third options shows change in unemployment from October 2011 to October 2012. The top 5 for the
largest increase in unemployment are New York, Connecticut, New jersey, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania
but ALL 5 voted for Obama.  So it doesn't appear you're correct once again.  Granted
this is only for the top 5 and for the change from 2011 to 2012 but I doubt it would show you're
correct if we looked at more states and/or did the comparison for 2010,2009 or 2008.  You certainly
haven't provided anything to support your belief.  I'm still looking for some link that shows how
unemployment changes for all states from 2008 or 2008 to October of 2012 but the partial data so far
doesn't support your belief.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 17 2013, 1:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is more simple than you think:

Old, white, and dying.

Like the the Party of NO.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 17 2013, 4:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is odd that the very same ones that are against aid of any sort also are against raising wages. Again, in my experience, the people I know getting aid are working. They just aren't making enough.

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If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
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