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Topic: Florida Man 'Preemptively' Kills Neighbors, Cites Bush Doctrine in Court< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 05 2013, 5:41 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


A Florida man who shot three of his neighbors killing two of them has cited the state's infamous Stand
Your Ground law in his defense, but with a twist: William T. Woodward insists the "Bush Doctrine" of
preventive war gives him the right to murder his neighbors before they murder him.


http://gawker.com/florida....7071728


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 05 2013, 5:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

He use the "Cheney One Percent" codicil?

Might have been prudent.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 05 2013, 5:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you know beyond a doubt that someone has every intention of killing you and witnesses back it up, why wouldn't you have a legal defense?

I had a circumstance where 2 guys (I didn't know them; mistaken identity) very loudly said they were going to kill me in a crowded bar in front of numerous witnesses then walked out. I called the cops and wanna know what they said? "We can't do anything until they do". Great. I have to be murdered before they'll do anything?

Oh, and the mistaken ID? They found the "right" guy and killed him.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 05 2013, 5:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Naturally, I figured he was representing himself..but no.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 6:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is as crazy as the infamous "Twinky Defense".  The Twinkie Defense worked in California and got a murderer off on a reduced charge of manslaughter.  I sincerely hope this defense does not work in Florida.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 8:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I cannot imagine him getting off based on SYG

Not having the responsibility to retreat does not somehow give you the right to hunt them down at a barbecue

He may be able to convince a jury he was totally convinced they were about to kill him, but I would like to think that is also unlikely

You know....since he had to go find them and kill them

But hey, SYG sure gets the headlines...but thanks to the media I think it may be the most misunderstood law on the books


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 8:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Again...
Through no threat or violence on your part, someone who has the means to kill you has publicly declared they have a motive to kill you and are only looking for the soonest opportunity to do it and the police have said they will do nothing until the threatened act takes place...
What do you do? Wait to die or move across country under a new name?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 10:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 5:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, he has his 15 minutes of fame, which is probably longer than it will take the judge to dismiss his claim, and only slightly shorter than the time a jury will require to throw him in jail for a long time.
Being Florida, he might even get to join his neighbors sooner rather than later courtesy of the state.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 6:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 06 2013, 8:58 am)
QUOTE
Again...
Through no threat or violence on your part, someone who has the means to kill you has publicly declared they have a motive to kill you and are only looking for the soonest opportunity to do it and the police have said they will do nothing until the threatened act takes place...
What do you do? Wait to die or move across country under a new name?

I would agree that someone that has threatened to kill you has shortened the escalation fuse. It might excuse some overreaction on the part of the accused.

But I think low crawling into their yard during a backyard barbecue and opening fire might be a tad too pre-emptive
  :)

This case does clearly point out how ineffective the authorities are in cases like these. They were fully aware of the bad blood between the groups but were "powerless" to do anything until something happened. Their inability to do much of anything certainly added to the tension in the situation. If only the victims had made their threats on facebook they could have been locked up quite quickly....especially if they sounded hateful :D

Well......something happened  :laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
But I think low crawling into their yard during a backyard barbecue and opening fire might be a tad too pre-emptive

True but at what point do you take action? Only when the guy ambushes you? In which case standard self defense laws come into play but the point is moot since you're probably already dead.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 5:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 07 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
But I think low crawling into their yard during a backyard barbecue and opening fire might be a tad too pre-emptive

True but at what point do you take action? Only when the guy ambushes you? In which case standard self defense laws come into play but the point is moot since you're probably already dead.

At what point?  When the danger is clear and imminent.  That means being vigilant and ever ready to defend oneself.  It does NOT mean pre-emptively assaulting one's neighbor.

What's the sayng again..........."Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 6:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
When the danger is clear and imminent.

How imminent? When you know the guy is coming some time but not sure exactly when.
Now? You're already dead because you didn't see him in ambush.
5 minutes?
1 hour?
1 day?

The so-called "Bush Doctrine" is really all governments doctrine. If a government knows an attack is impending, even without a specific timeline, it can justify a preemptive strike. Hell, even cops do it under  conspiracy laws. But private citizens cannot.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 7:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

imminent [ im-uh-nuhnt ]

adjective 1. likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent. 2. projecting or leaning forward; overhanging.



 5 minutes is not imminent.  If someone comes in your home, that's imminent.  
 The proper thing for this guy would have been to get a restraining order on them based on the threat.  Establish that history.


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13 replies since Sep. 05 2013, 5:41 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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