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Topic: Guns In National Parks, Inveitable Trajedy< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 4:25 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/13079.htm

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 4:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sad.  My heart goes out to the parents.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 5:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Screw her parents, they were responsible!  ..and given their irresponsible handling of firearms this could've happened at home just as easily.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news....te.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 5:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Very sad indeed and your heart does go out to the parents.  Can you imagine having to live with the fact that as parents you were irresponsible gun owners.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 6:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Speak for your own heart, of course, but I feel no more compassion for these people than for the drunk driver that kills one of his kids.  At least the drunk had the excuse of being drunk.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 6:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Could have happened anywhere and might have.  Still, if the parks still had their no gun policy, this particular tragedy would have been avoided.   Just a matter of time until it happens again.

I tend to agree with 1camper though.  The fault lies with the parents rather than the law.  Still, I remain opposed to guns in national parks policy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 6:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think you mean "might have been avoided"... IF the parents paid more attention to the law concerning guns in parks than the rules concerning guns with kids.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 6:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm always packin' ( or was ), policy or no policy...............!

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 7:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I try to take the high road when finding fault with others.  Yes, an adult failed to properly store a handgun, but that doesn't make the hurt any less.  It may make it more.  Imagine being responsible for your child's death.  Some folks commit suicide over less.  

My feelings about guns really have no place in this topic, as it is a very sad story and people will have to live with their choices.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 7:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

High road...lol.  Given the title of the thread, fault was already assigned.  I was just trying to assign it correctly.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 8:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Sep. 08 2013, 6:21 pm)
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Could have happened anywhere and might have.  Still, if the parks still had their no gun policy, this particular tragedy would have been avoided.   Just a matter of time until it happens again.

I tend to agree with 1camper though.  The fault lies with the parents rather than the law.  Still, I remain opposed to guns in national parks policy.

Something tells me they would have still had the gun.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 10:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Still, if the parks still had their no gun policy, this particular tragedy would have been avoided

You're delusional if you believe that a no gun policy and gun laws are actually obeyed, even by most otherwise law-abiding citizens.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 11:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Any info if it was accidental or intentional?  No info on age of child.  No info on if it was self inflicted.  Just jump on the gun owners because they own a gun.  Quality folks around here.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 11:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The victim was reportedly three years old.

http://m.missoulian.com/news....ch=true
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(OverUnder @ Sep. 08 2013, 11:13 pm)
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 Just jump on the gun owners because they own a gun.  Quality folks around here.

Come on, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that if the parents hadn't had a gun, this wouldn't have happened.  It's as simple as that.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 08 2013, 10:04 pm)
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You're delusional if you believe that a no gun policy and gun laws are actually obeyed, even by most otherwise law-abiding citizens.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but aren't you the guy who has consistently argued that gun owners are among the most law abiding citizens there are.  Don't you see a bit of a contradiction here.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 6:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Sep. 08 2013, 10:20 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 08 2013, 10:04 pm)
QUOTE
You're delusional if you believe that a no gun policy and gun laws are actually obeyed, even by most otherwise law-abiding citizens.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but aren't you the guy who has consistently argued that gun owners are among the most law abiding citizens there are.  Don't you see a bit of a contradiction here.

There are plain out bad guys who will always carry and some borderline who also do. And you know guns were always carried in Parks but just kept out of sight.

There is some contradiction but aren't you also one who argues that it's OK to violate unjust laws? Using the thread going on about gays and gay marriage, aren't laws restricting them wrong? In which case there is a moral imperative to ignore those laws.

Many otherwise law-abiding gun owners feel their Constitutionally guaranteed 2nd Amendment rights trumps restrictive gun laws. If they are right, then the laws telling them 'no' are wrong and they have every moral right to ignore them.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 9:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The fact that this happened in a National Park is completely irrelevant.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 10:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Sep. 09 2013, 9:10 am)
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The fact that this happened in a National Park is completely irrelevant.

With all due respect given the extremely controversial change in policy not long ago I can't imagine how you could possibly think it to be irrelevant. Were the policy in force and these parents were the law abiding citizens so many of you purport their kind to be, then this would not have happened and this life would not have been snuffed out in a tragic accident of irresponsible parenting.

Of course the parents are ultimately to blame, but IMO a whole lot of blame goes to the culture of perceived personal entitlement that allows for people to indulge their irrational personal paranoias at the expense of public safety.

Guns, loaded or not, are prohibited in many public places in the park, and IMO that should extend to public campgrounds where IMO there's certainly a debate as to who's freedom trumps another's; the freedom to indulge irrational self absorbed paranoias or the freedom of everyone else in the campground to have as safe an experience as possible.

I do not think anyone here has ever advocated gun confiscation. IMO most of us have simply argued that a community's right to safer environs trumps those personal paranoias. Is one's personal freedom truly infringed if of the 19 million public acres of Greater Yellowstone functional firearms are prohibited from the small acreages outside of the vast backcountry of the less than 3 million acres in the two National Parks? Given we have freedom of movement in this country the family could have camped elsewhere where they were not putting every other person in that campground at elevated risk of injury or worse  

The 2nd Ammendment unequivocally allows for regulation. IMO allowing functional guns in a developed public campground is unreasonable, especially given most guns are not the best choice for defense from apex predators like Grizzly Bears. Just as the gun owner should be entitled to bear their arms over a majority of our pulic lands I think reasonable for smarter parents to have the right of refuge from exascerbated risks in a campground they pay good money to be safe in.

So I'll respectfully disagree with LB and anyone that thinks the freedom to indulge personal paranoias is ok to come at a cost of public endangerment EVERYWHERE.

Peace,

John


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

All too relevant when a child fires a gun in a NPS campground. People in close quarters separated by nylon. A gun fired in any direction stands a fair chance of hitting someone.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 10:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Again, the owner of the gun is responsible for where the bullet goes.  If you're gonna say guns shouldn't be allowed in campgrounds because rangers shouldn't have to be confronted and live with this particular kind of nightmare; I have some sympathy for that argument.

 The thing that is fishy to me about this is the owner of the gun did not report the accident.  There is no way my wife would make that call. My gun goes off by accident, I'll be reporting it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Unfortunately even the most well-conceived laws cannot always protect us from irresponsible individual behaviors and poor judgment. We cannot legislate this risk out of society.

Stories like this serve as avenues to talk about broader policy issues, but IMO, most of these issues can be boiled down to personal responsibility and judgment rather than the efficacy or failure of specific policies (I can hear the teeth gnashing and blood boiling already!). Whether it's guns, educating your child, issues of race, protecting the environment (hello Camp Gladiator people!), or whatever, the answer is simple: Don't be a dumbass.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Good advice, well out of the range of what many are capable of.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Fishy?

Women in Idaho can't own firearms?

On another note: so should someone be shot with one of your guns when you are not present your wife needs to wait until you arrive before calling for medical assistance? That could be a very long wait were you off on some lake fishing......

Tight ship.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Sep. 09 2013, 9:10 am)
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The fact that this happened in a National Park is completely irrelevant.

Truest statement in this thread.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:09 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Sep. 09 2013, 9:10 am)
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The fact that this happened in a National Park is completely irrelevant.

Truest statement in this thread.

I'm sure that makes perfect sense if you vacation in East St. Louis or South Chicago.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Terrible tragedy.
Too bad they didn't choose to pack bear spray instead of a firearm.
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:01 pm)
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Fishy?

Women in Idaho can't own firearms?

On another note: so should someone be shot with one of your guns when you are not present your wife needs to wait until you arrive before calling for medical assistance? That could be a very long wait were you off on some lake fishing......

Tight ship.

The story I linked to said "father's gun".   Of course if the father is not there when the accident happened he wouldn't know to call.  That wasn't the case here.  In my house, even if it's my wife's gun involved in the accident, I would have to call.  
 
 Maybe this guy was paramedic and trying to keep her alive...but there is no indication that was the case.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It could have just as easily happened in a KOA, and the walls in apartment buildings are not much better at stopping bullets than a tent.

This kid was pretty much doomed from the day she was born.  We can only hope that death came quickly and she did not suffer.
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(1camper @ Sep. 09 2013, 10:05 am)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:01 pm)
QUOTE
Fishy?

Women in Idaho can't own firearms?

On another note: so should someone be shot with one of your guns when you are not present your wife needs to wait until you arrive before calling for medical assistance? That could be a very long wait were you off on some lake fishing......

Tight ship.

The story I linked to said "father's gun".   Of course if the father is not there when the accident happened he wouldn't know to call.  That wasn't the case here.  In my house, even if it's my wife's gun involved in the accident, I would have to call.  
 
 Maybe this guy was paramedic and trying to keep her alive...but there is no indication that was the case.

Your link repeats the same "The names of the mother and girl in the incident," without mentioning the father so my take is he might not have made the trip with them?

But those are all short pieces so who knows what will appear once the dust clears.
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