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Topic: Buddhism and Liberalism, are not the same< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:34 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow, is there an award for turning a non sequitur into a train of thought. What next TDale, snake handling preachers and Gaia? Catholics were once important in social change, now they are more anti-abortion. German-American Lutherans stopped having services in German when the Nazi's came to power. The Evangelics are still working hard to turn America into a theocracy.

Spiritualism from someone whose faith in the almighty dollar is paramount?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm never amazed at how fast some will want to go from a topic to personal judgements.  Y'all wonder why I won't engage with you?

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If modern "conservatives" actually practiced conservative ideals, that observation might have some merit.  But they don't, not even close.  So it doesn't.

The last lines of that article are a good bit of irony though.  :laugh:  Made me chuckle out loud.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:20 pm)
QUOTE
If modern "conservatives" actually practiced conservative ideals, that observation might have some merit.  But they don't, not even close.  So it doesn't.

The last lines of that article are a good bit of irony though.  :laugh:  Made me chuckle out loud.

So many miss the point of my posts.  Love you, Blue.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 09 2013, 1:41 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:20 pm)
QUOTE
If modern "conservatives" actually practiced conservative ideals, that observation might have some merit.  But they don't, not even close.  So it doesn't.

The last lines of that article are a good bit of irony though.  :laugh:  Made me chuckle out loud.

So many miss the point of my posts.  Love you, Blue.

You posted a link to an article and nothing more like you normally do? You can at least cut n paste some of the article to get people a sample.There was a point? Just sayin'
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, heck, I want you to read the whole article, dufus!

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 2:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ok. But what was YOUR point? It's just nice Internet etiquette to post SOME of the article. As a sample. To see if I want to read any of it. Just sayin'
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 2:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My etiquette is a tool.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 2:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Please put photos of scantily-clad dancing girls next to the link as well.  Just sayin'.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 5:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In CA I knew and talked to several Buddhists from Asia, and found their political views to be diverse, usually fairly moderate, if anything. It might have been cultural, but there was a real desire to empathize and get along with most everybody.
But every Anglo Buddhist I have ever met was very politically liberal.
Take that unscientific observation FWIW.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 6:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

THIS JUST IN:
Many Buddhists are far from liberal, and many conservatives are far from conservative.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 6:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So TDale requires mind readers to be socially acceptable.

Buzzards, when Indonesians, Indians, Philipinos  and Africans take up Mormonism they become Americanized to some degree. The Dalai Lama, leans towards socialism, because he believes that the first responsibility of any higher system of organization should be to look after peoples needs. The fact that religious belief can encompass a variety of political purposes should be a good thing, but most people have a hard time getting past the "different god" thing.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I liked the linked article.

In a nutshell, the article seemed to say:
Buddhism = individual compassion and personal charity.
Liberalism = idiot compassion and forced charity.

and I agree with that view.

I wonder why the left wingers had such a problem understanding the article?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 12:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:41 pm)
QUOTE
So many miss the point of my posts.
And why do you suppose that is? Huh?

Could someone - anyone - define "forced charity" for me?

Good article series, though the idea that there's any particular alignment of Buddhism politically, in any way, is pretty much numbskull. As the Benster would say in his hackneyed way, "Methinks 50 years of meditation has not accomplished much with this one".
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 1:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Sep. 10 2013, 11:11 am)
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Could someone - anyone - define "forced charity" for me?

Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to that one too.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 1:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Sep. 10 2013, 4:33 am)
QUOTE
I liked the linked article.

In a nutshell, the article seemed to say:
Buddhism = individual compassion and personal charity.
Liberalism = idiot compassion and forced charity.

and I agree with that view.

I wonder why the left wingers had such a problem understanding the article?

That gave me a good laugh too.  Thanks Ken.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 4:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Sep. 10 2013, 11:38 am)
QUOTE

(Gabby @ Sep. 10 2013, 11:11 am)
QUOTE
Could someone - anyone - define "forced charity" for me?

Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to that one too.

Well, that's easy. When I help my neighbor, when I donate to a organization that does good and helps people, when I give my own money to a friend or stranger of my own volition, that's unforced charity.
And I think in most cases, it results in both myself and the person who receives the help feeling better.
When the government comes and takes my money from me, telling me that they are going to use it to make other peoples lives better, but I have no choice in how much I owe them, that's forced charity. And I suspect even very "progressive" folks look at their total tax bill and wonder why the government took so little.
Now I know there are legitimate government functions that require taxation, that government programs alleviate suffering (very inefficiently), and so on. And your right.
But you asked for a definition, so there it is.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 4:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That whole article reads like a strawman set up and written by a guy with issues...he definitely sounds like he has issues about "the government taking" or "forcing" him to do things, and he's probably angry that he didn't get anywhere with the "hipster buddhist" chick who shot him down.  

Some of us, like Oliver Wendell Holmes said, believe "Taxes buy civilization".

While I would agree that government is inefficient as it goes to providing charity, as an average working guy, I am OK with paying my fair share.  It irritates me to no end listening to much wealthier friends complain about how unfair their fair share is...and that they are actively being dishonest to avoid paying it.  Similarly, these are some of the least charitable and giving people I know.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 3:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Sep. 10 2013, 12:11 pm)
QUOTE
Could someone - anyone - define "forced charity" for me?

Good article series, though the idea that there's any particular alignment of Buddhism politically, in any way, is pretty much numbskull. As the Benster would say in his hackneyed way, "Methinks 50 years of meditation has not accomplished much with this one".

Sure.  

Charity:  the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need.

Force: coercion or compulsion, esp. with the use or threat of violence

Forced charity:  the use of compulsion or coercion to provide help to those in need.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 8:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ken I do a fair amount of work for local charities. There seem to be two types of volunteers. Those, like myself, who are there to assist for no other reason than we find it more important to do that on a Saturday than sitting around watching football.  The other types are students who need the hours for Beta club or some other academic requirement, people working off community service hours through the court, and church youth groups. All of those in the second group are there due to some sort of coercion. Is it your contention that these folks are all liberals? Or is this another of those idiotic statements that you'll backpedal on by claiming you were being sarcastic?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 10:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As a "libertarian" Buddhist/Taoist, I know what the author is trying to convey. Some people just don't understand how I can call myself compassionate, while not advocating for Obama Phones, etc. Sometimes I try to explain... usually to no avail. I'm also curious why Christians aren't held to the same standard? The message is basically the same. Heck, in some circles it's un-Christian to support social welfare. I think GBH hit the nail on the head in Post #4.

That said, why do we tie compassion directly to money? There are myriad ways to be compassionate. You don't see Buddhist monks measuring their compassion by how much money they donate to whatever cause.

A bible verse that has always stuck with me since I was a child sums it up perfectly: "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's".


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 11:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:20 pm)
QUOTE
If modern "conservatives" actually practiced conservative ideals, that observation might have some merit.  But they don't, not even close.  So it doesn't.

The last lines of that article are a good bit of irony though.  :laugh:  Made me chuckle out loud.

Well said.

Is allowing our tax dollars to sustain weapons programs intended to defend us against the former Soviet Union, a vanquished enemy of more than two decades, "forced charity" given its CERTAINLY not about protecting us but more about sustaining those high salaries and returns for rich, "conservative" imbeciles?

As I've asked before, where's a real conservative when you need them?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 12:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

+1

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"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 12:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Sep. 11 2013, 8:09 am)
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As I've asked before, where's a real conservative when you need them?

Unfortunately, the term has migrated away from conservative ideals towards -
I hate anything that is even remotely considered a liberal idea!
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 9:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the writer of that article knew anything about Buddhism, he'd know that labels such as "liberal, conservative, radical libertarian" are pretty much meaningless.

So the entire article is pretty much meaningless.

“A wise man, recognizing that the world is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, so he escapes the suffering.” – The Buddha.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 12 2013, 12:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Sep. 11 2013, 8:01 am)
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Ken I do a fair amount of work for local charities. There seem to be two types of volunteers. Those, like myself, who are there to assist for no other reason than we find it more important to do that on a Saturday than sitting around watching football.  The other types are students who need the hours for Beta club or some other academic requirement, people working off community service hours through the court, and church youth groups. All of those in the second group are there due to some sort of coercion. Is it your contention that these folks are all liberals? Or is this another of those idiotic statements that you'll backpedal on by claiming you were being sarcastic?

Hmmmm.

QUOTE
Is it [my]contention that these folks are all liberals?
Nope.  I never made such a contention nor did I even suggest or imply any such thing.  This looks like yet another HG strawman.

The other types are students who need the hours for Beta club or some other academic requirement, people working off community service hours through the court, and church youth groups. All of those in the second group are there due to some sort of coercion.

Let's examine youe claim a little more closely:
The other types are:
1.  students who need the hours for Beta club or some other academic requirement
2. people working off community service hours through the court
3. and church youth groups.

Groups 1 and 2 are performing charity under coercion.  Group 3 is not.  So your statement was 33% false.

Now let's take a look at your strawman.
The people being coerced may or may not be liberal.  Indeed the politics of those being coerced is utterly irrelevant.  This makes your statement 100% false.

What is relevant is the politics of those doing the coercing.  It is my contention that the vast majority of laws/regulations that coerce compassion and charity are consistent with liberal politics.

Oh, and you want sarcasm?  I'll happily oblige:

HG is a deep thinker with
1. vast knowledge of Babylonian, Greek and Roman astronomy with a solid grasp of the physics involved in the twinkling of starlight    and
2. vast knowledge of how global warming has resulted in the discovery of a "grand canyon" in Greenland.

Satisfied?

So who's the player again?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 12 2013, 8:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ken after the ass whooping you received on your ridiculous claim that the Greeks named their gods after planets, I can't imagine why you'd want to divert the current topic back to that. I guess you've dug this whole so deep you're looking for another out. Your claim was "Liberalism = idiot compassion and forced charity."

How does that match reality? Can you pop a ritalin or whatever it is you need to keep you focused and respond in a logical fashion or should we expect more of your standard shucking and jivin'?
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