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Topic: Guns: Should The Legally Blind, Be Allowed To Carry Firearms< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 2:44 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Are there any among us that do not agree that this is sheer lunacy?

http://news.msn.com/us/gun-permits-for-the-blind-create-divide-in-iowa


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If they can golf, they should be able to gun.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Let them drive and fly commercial jets too!

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well they are going to need a lot of time at the local firing ranges to get practice.  Relax, ... what could possibly go wrong?

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 09 2013, 3:12 pm)
QUOTE
If they can golf, they should be able to gun.

What "Golfing" is is of course open to relative interpretation. How about if they can break a hundred for 18 holes?

This is where I truly believe we should simply license gun operators like we do with drivers. Compulsory vision and range test, minimum age requirements, etc. Is that reasonable?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Being tested is not a problem for me.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Watch it DC, you're dipping your toes into the political correctness pool...

We don't want to appear unfair to our optically challenged citizens.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 4:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for some levity gentlemen. The anniversary of a serious personal trajedy involving guns camed and went recently and I'm obviously prosthyletizing a bit. My apologies.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 5:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd gladly be tested in order to hold a permit too. The test would have to do a psychological work up too....If you can't safely operate then you don't need one. The only problem is there's so many guns illegally on the streets that it is too easy for people to get one.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 7:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE



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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 9:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Sep. 09 2013, 2:44 pm)
QUOTE
Are there any among us that do not agree that this is sheer lunacy?

http://news.msn.com/us/gun-permits-for-the-blind-create-divide-in-iowa

I'm likely one.

I believe the vision requirements for a drivers license and for a carry license should likely be different, and the laws regulating them should reflect that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I believe in right to carry but legally blind carry should not be.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:46 am)
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I believe in right to carry but legally blind carry should not be.

So how do you define "legally blind"?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hand grenades for the blind..  "I was sure I heard an intruder..in the room that was over there."

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 7:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(1camper @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:53 am)
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Hand grenades for the blind..  "I was sure I heard an intruder..in the room that was over there."

What about horse shoes?  I've heard that close only counts with hand grenades and horse shoes.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 7:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:52 am)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:46 am)
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I believe in right to carry but legally blind carry should not be.

So how do you define "legally blind"?

That seems to me to be the important question

I really couldn't say without knowing how well the legally blind can actually see.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 8:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(1camper @ Sep. 10 2013, 5:53 am)
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Hand grenades for the blind..  "I was sure I heard an intruder..in the room that was over there."

Are permits required for homemade hand grenades?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 8:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, I guess our armed, sight-compromised person would yell, "Marco!"

This goes a bit off trail, but since the broader topic is trending...

I simply want to talk to the ignored first part of the 2nd amendment:
QUOTE
A well regulated Militia,

If you want a gun, you join the state militia. Once a quarter, you take all your guns, or proof of sale of guns, and proper documentation of registration and insurance, to the militia people. You show them your stuff, along with a statement that the storage for all your guns meets the law. Every few years, you take a test. Pass? You can legally keep your guns. Fail? You have to surrender and sell them.

It's like a car, huh? License, registration, inspection, insurance. Repeat until you can't. Then, you aren't allowed.

It occurs to me that most gun people are all over protecting their right to own and bear firearms, but when it comes to protecting a woman's constitutional right to her person, the tune changes.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 9:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:29 am)
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It occurs to me that most gun people are all over protecting their right to own and bear firearms, but when it comes to protecting a woman's constitutional right to her person, the tune changes.

Sorry, I must have been dozing off in class when they covered this part of the constitution.

Which amendment is it that grants "a woman's constitutional right to her person"?

Not saying women don't have rights, but show me where this is stated in the constitution, as you assert.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 10:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just as the Constitution offers absolutely no express or implied prohibitions against consenting adult homosexuality and marriage it offers none for a woman's right to choose either.

Does the Constitution give rights to the unborn? If you think so please show us. We "kill" all sorts of things in our society with no debate. This idea of human dominion and sanctity of zygote life is driven by the profit, not benevolent, minded.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 10:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Sep. 10 2013, 8:16 am)
QUOTE
Just as the Constitution offers absolutely no express or implied prohibitions against consenting adult homosexuality and marriage it offers none for a woman's right to choose either.

Thank you for affirming that bigsilk is simply blowing smoke out of his butt.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 10:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Sep. 10 2013, 7:44 am)
QUOTE

(bigsilk @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:29 am)
QUOTE
It occurs to me that most gun people are all over protecting their right to own and bear firearms, but when it comes to protecting a woman's constitutional right to her person, the tune changes.

Sorry, I must have been dozing off in class when they covered this part of the constitution.

Which amendment is it that grants "a woman's constitutional right to her person"?

Not saying women don't have rights, but show me where this is stated in the constitution, as you assert.

The 9th Amendment addresses that, at least indirectly.  You're both kinda right.

9th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:
QUOTE
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words, just because certain rights are enumerated specifically in the constitution, that doesn't grant the government (or anybody) the ability to infringe on other inherent rights that aren't specifically enumerated there.  Roe v. Wade was won on those grounds.

The 14th Amendment's "Due Process Clause" played a big part too, stating that "[N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law", which protects such rights if either due process wasn't followed, or the law was unconstitutional to begin with.

Just adding a bit of perspective to all this.  It doesn't necessarily imply that you're wrong, LB, but it also doesn't necessarily imply that bigsilk is all that far off the mark either.  The SCOTUS ruled on this very issue.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 12:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The 14th amendment was not really about individual rights, it made a distinction between state and federal rights, and precluded states passing laws that restricted rights of individuals that were guaranteed by federal law.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The 9th amendment does not grant any rights at all.  It simply says that just because a right is not explicitly stated in the constitution, does not mean that that right does not exist, or that people do not have, or do not retain that right.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people

Granted, courts have applied these amendments, particular the 9th in women's rights issues but there is a big difference between rights expressly guaranteed in the constitution and rights that are assumed to be retained, but clearly not stated.

If one would argue that the 9th amendment applies in a case, then one must also concede that this right is not expressly given elsewhere in the constitution.  That is the crux of the 9th amendment.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Sep. 10 2013, 3:52 am)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:46 am)
QUOTE
I believe in right to carry but legally blind carry should not be.

So how do you define "legally blind"?

In North America and most of Europe, legal blindness is defined as visual acuity (vision) of 20/200 (6/60) or less in the better eye with best correction possible. This means that a legally blind individual would have to stand 20 feet (6.1 m) from an object to see it—with corrective lenses—with the same degree of clarity as a normally sighted person could from 200 feet (61 m). In many areas, people with average acuity who nonetheless have a visual field of less than 20 degrees (the norm being 180 degrees) are also classified as being legally blind. Approximately ten percent of those deemed legally blind, by any measure, have no vision

Source

You may be okay with your legally blind neighbor waving his gun around at undefined images - me? not so much.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 10 2013, 5:46 am)
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I believe in right to carry but legally blind carry should not be.

Why not?

Why is being blind stop a person from owning and carrying a gun?

There is nothing in the NRA bible....err....federal law that says that sight is a requirement for gun ownership.

And to go further, I think all the homeless should be armed. Why being destitute be a limiting factor in being a law abiding gun owner.

Yeeeaaaaaaaa Buddy! Dont stomp on those second amendment rights!!!!!


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 8:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

See how far ahead Bill Clinton was!!

He "saw" long ago that it all depends on what the definition of is, is.

It is all downhill after that.  LOL


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 8:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Sep. 10 2013, 9:44 am)
QUOTE

(bigsilk @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:29 am)
QUOTE
It occurs to me that most gun people are all over protecting their right to own and bear firearms, but when it comes to protecting a woman's constitutional right to her person, the tune changes.

Sorry, I must have been dozing off in class when they covered this part of the constitution.

Which amendment is it that grants "a woman's constitutional right to her person"?

Not saying women don't have rights, but show me where this is stated in the constitution, as you assert.

I didn't say anything about an amendment. See Roe v. Wade.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 11:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:24 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Sep. 10 2013, 9:44 am)
QUOTE

(bigsilk @ Sep. 10 2013, 6:29 am)
QUOTE
It occurs to me that most gun people are all over protecting their right to own and bear firearms, but when it comes to protecting a woman's constitutional right to her person, the tune changes.

Sorry, I must have been dozing off in class when they covered this part of the constitution.

Which amendment is it that grants "a woman's constitutional right to her person"?

Not saying women don't have rights, but show me where this is stated in the constitution, as you assert.

I didn't say anything about an amendment. See Roe v. Wade.

Roe vs Wade is a Supreme Court Decision.  I still don't see it in the constitution.

The constitution is made up of amendments.  Show me the one that talks about "a woman's constitutional right to her person"...
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 11 2013, 2:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Sep. 10 2013, 10:16 am)
QUOTE
Does the Constitution give rights to the unborn?

No, it does not.  However, to the best of my knowlege no one is claiming the unborn have constitutional rights.  So is this a strawman?
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