SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 212>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: What caused the Mega Event in CO ?, God's wrath,random event,Global warming< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
swimswithtrout Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7971
Joined: Jan. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 12:58 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What caused the Mega Event in CO ?

I side with random event.

Shite happens, and has happened through numerous events over the past millenniums, times 1 billion years.

Ice ages come and go, asteroids strike the planet with regularity, the last little 'Ice Age" wasn't even an eye blink in the cosmos time scale.

Climatology changes are nothing new.

The Earth is warming up, for sure, but there is no science that can "Prove" that it's human caused.

If human caused "Global Warming " is correct, then we might be lucky.

I, for one , think this is just another warming /climate change cycle that the earth has gone through for 4 billion years, and no amount of carbon reductions, greenhouse eliminations will cure. It's just the way it is. Ask the Anasazi's a few thousand years ago

If only we could step back 15,000 -20,000 yrs ago and save the Mammoths /Mastodons from their "Global Warming" extinctions and save the Neanderthals.

Woops ,my bad, the earth was created in just a "few" years.

QUOTE
" If you look at the Grand Canyon you will see thousands of layers of sedimentary rock. The Creationist and the Evolutionist can both look at the same evidence but come to different conclusions.

The evolutionist who believes in an ancient earth will look at these layers of rock and determine that these layers formed slowly over millions of years.

The Creationist who believes the Bible looks at the same evidence but comes to a different conclusion as to how these layers were formed. The Creationist knows that these layers could not have formed over millions of years. As there is little or no erosion between the layers. This is consistent with all the layers being laid down at the same time (the flood).

The Creationist interpretation is that the Grand Canyon was formed as a result of the flood. The receding flood waters would cut through the soft sediments, leaving the canyon. These soft sediments later hardened into their present form.

The canyon may have formed while it was solidifying, as the waters receded (possibly very quickly) it would cut through these layers like butter. Some people claim that it took a little bit of water (the small river) a lot of time (millions of years) to form the canyon. But it could have been the opposite.

A lot of water (the flood) and a little bit of time.

For more information read:

1)"Grand Canyon: A Different View" Compiled by Tom Vail

2) "Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe" by Dr Steven Austin

"The Grand Canyon Catastrophe: New Evidence of the Genesis Flood" by Keziah & American Portrait Films

"The Grand Canyon: Monument to the Flood" (VHS)

"Mount St. Helens: Explosive Evidence for Catastrophe" (VHS) Dr Steve Austin

"The Grand Canyon: A Biblical View by Dr. Andrew A. Snelling

"Geologic Evidences for Very Rapid Strata Deposition in the Grand Canyon (DVD)" by Dr Steven Austin "


God's wrath, human caused, natural occurrence, it doesn't matter !!

We are going into a changing climate.


--------------
Want to see The Wind River Range in widescreen 1080p ?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
JimmyC Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12425
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 2:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Colorado voted for Obama.......................................................see y'all, it was easy.

--------------


Trolls need love too...........
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
mtnsteve Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2414
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 2:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Did anyone else hear that ? It sounded like a fart.

As to the events in Colorado, hard to say. Anyone can see the weather is changing with 100 year events happening more often.

Extreme weather is becoming more common, doesn't matter who is the cause, it's happening. Not sure we can do much about it at this point.


--------------
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."
Helen Keller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 4
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7214
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 3:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A series of random events that combined to make a very unusual event.  Kinda like the "perfect storm".
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
JimmyC Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12425
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 3:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Sep. 16 2013, 3:15 am)
QUOTE
A series of random events that combined to make a very unusual event.  Kinda like the "perfect storm".

It reminds me of Obama and his minions negotiating with Russians, disaster after disaster............................. :;):

--------------


Trolls need love too...........
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
GlenG Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1500
Joined: Oct. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 6:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The earth is prone to dramatic, violent events.  We live on a dynamic rock.  Its all about the possibility of chance.  Flooding events have happened in Colorado before, and will again.  Tragedy and hardship caused by weather and geologic events will continue to happen despite our best attempts to prevent them.  Its this "conditioning" that allows us to evolve and prosper as a species, if we adapt and learn to live with events like this.  

We'd like to think that we are masters of our domain and the earth.  In reality, we are no more significant to the universe than a single cell bacteria.

Is the weather more extreme now, or is it the way information is transferred in an instant, and sensationalized?  Or is it merely that there are more people on this planet, and now, more people are affected and are aware of, and influenced by these events?  We've been keeping weather records for 150 years, or so....as SWT stated, very small time scale.  Yes, I know, we can go back and look at air trapped in ice, and take CO2 samples, but what we are seeing now, with regards to weather change, is more the norm, than not.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
Chuck D Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7924
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 10:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Weather engineering by the New World Order.

--------------
Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 10:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Jesus Christ Superstar and his technicolor dream cost.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16363
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 10:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

SWT, you're conflating two entirely different questions in your OP.

1) Did global climate change--whether human-caused or not--"cause" the recent huge rain event in Colorado?
2) Are greenhouse gas emissions from humans affecting (and generally warming) global climate?

Those are two entirely separate questions with independent answers. You started with the first and then didn't miss a beat droning on about the second.  Which one are you actually interested in asking? They're not the same.

The rest of the verbal ramblings about the Bible, mammoths, Anazanis and Neanderthals are little more than incoherent distractions having little to do with either point.  If you were wanting to ask another question about any of those, feel free to add it to the list, so at least folks know what they're actually trying to have a discussion about.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 10
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43747
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Another alleged out of doors person that seemingly doesn't believe in the consequences of increasing insulation?

Always puzzles me. That's a SAR remains retrieval waiting to happen, IMHO.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
Hungry Jack Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2279
Joined: Nov. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 12:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

According to the book I just read, the Neanderthals were done in by the transition of the land ecosystem from forest to savanna as the climate warmed.

--------------
Summon the Minions!
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6712
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 12:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Might want to look at the science explanations??

Signs point to the tropical Pacific being the source of the abundant moisture, according to the University of Wisconsin’s Cooperative Institute for Meteorological Satellite Studies. From there, the moisture plume was transported northeastward, over Mexico and into Texas, and then northward by upper level winds.

This tropical air mass, which is more typical of the Gulf Coast than the Rocky Mountains, has been forced to move slowly up and over the Front Range by light southeasterly winds. This lifting process, known as orographic lift, allowed the atmosphere to wring out this unusually bountiful stream of moist air, dumping torrents of rain on the Boulder area for days on end.

According to meteorologist Jeff Masters of Weather Underground, the amount of moisture in the atmosphere, or "precipitable water," as measured by a weather balloon over Denver on Sept. 12, reached record values for the month of September.

                 ...............................

The National Weather Service (NWS) said in an online discussion on Friday that the amount of precipitable water in the air over Colorado is still at record levels for this time of year, which is an indication that the potential for heavy rainfall remains high.
                          ..................................

Extreme rainfall events have become more frequent across the U.S. during the past several decades in part due to manmade global warming. Increasing air and ocean temperatures mean that the air is generally carrying more water vapor than it used to, and this moisture can be tapped by storm systems to yield rain or snow extremes.

Trends in extreme precipitation events vary by region, though, and in general the biggest increases have taken place in the Midwest and Northeast. However, most parts of the U.S. have seen an increase in extreme precipitation events, according to the draft National Climate Assessment report that was released this past January. The report goes on to note that in the future, "increases in the frequency and intensity of extreme precipitation events are projected for most U.S. areas."


http://www.weather.com/news....0130913

Check out the map in that article.  We may turn out to be the lucky ones.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
Hungry Jack Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2279
Joined: Nov. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 12:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I believe the meteorological term is "Mexican Moisture Pump."

So perhaps we can blame the Mexicans for bringing their monsoonal weather illegally across our borders. Sounds like a project for Homeland Security, if you ask me.


--------------
Summon the Minions!
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43747
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 1:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"mega"? It rained, that happens you know.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
Ecocentric Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5207
Joined: Jun. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 2:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They warned you about the brown acid!

It is pretty shallow thinking to link a single data point to climate. Dozens of data points do not really reveal an overall trend. That is why so much shallow journalism, quoted by so many uninformed deniers, sounds like a skipping record to those that are really paying attention, looking for true signal in the noise.

The important point is that people are ignoring the large body of consistent data that HighSierra continues to beat the drum with. If you know your natural history, you know that the amount of carbon leaving the lithosphere and entering that atmosphere hasn't even come close to current rate of human activity since a hot spot caused by a plume in the earth's mantle developed beneath the supercontinent Pangea, and burned it's way through extensive coal deposits in the volcanic event now known as the  Siberian Traps. That led to an extinction event known to paleontologists as The Great Dying. That isn't alarmism, that is Natural History, and the current rate that we are moving carbon from one account to another is at a higher rate than one of the Earth's largest super-volcanoes.

You may have heard different, but you can listen to the pundits with no education or substantial data on the subject or you can dig into the science and the body of data that supports that science.

The alluvial deposits at the mouths of all of those canyons is solid evidence that geologically, this flood is not a rare event. Feel free to gamble that it will take 1,000 years for it to repeat itself, but don't be surprised if it does it again in twenty years. Insurance gives people the security to build on barrier islands of hurricane prone coasts, nuclear plants on shore lines flooded by tsunamis, and industry on the flood plains of even the rivers that are described as 'mighty'. New Orleans and Amsterdam have sprawled into areas that are below sea level, and both are known for drugs and prostitution, but Amsterdam doesn't tolerate graft when it comes to the maintenance of sea walls.

Yep, we could go to the trouble to change our habits, our technology, and our values in the interest of changing our impact on the climate and environment; then be hit by a planet killing asteroid. The difference is one is our choice, the other is not.


--------------
"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6712
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 9:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, it is true.  I live over 90 miles southeast of Denver, on top of 4000-6000 feet of outwash from the two predecessor mountain ranges to our current one.

But that did take a couple hundred million years to reach this point.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10888
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 10:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Sep. 16 2013, 3:15 am)
QUOTE
A series of random events that combined to make a very unusual event.  Kinda like the "perfect storm".

I think I pretty much have to agree with Ken V on this one although one certainly cannot rule out the possibility of climate change in which man has probably had a hand.  Simple truth is, none of really know for sure.


--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16363
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 16 2013, 11:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Sep. 16 2013, 8:38 pm)
QUOTE

(KenV @ Sep. 16 2013, 3:15 am)
QUOTE
A series of random events that combined to make a very unusual event.  Kinda like the "perfect storm".

I think I pretty much have to agree with Ken V on this one although one certainly cannot rule out the possibility of climate change in which man has probably had a hand.  Simple truth is, none of really know for sure.

Of course that's true. All that "caused" the event was a lot of rain and a blocking weather pattern. Thousand-year storms still happen every thousand years give or take, regardless of anything else going on. That alone neither supports nor does it negate any evidence of larger climatic changes. It's a non-sequitur to try and assign blame for any single event.

But trends continue.  A thousand year storm every 500-1500 years is normal. A 100 year storm several times a decade is not. That happening in many regions, many times over points to something else.

The baseball player on steroids is still an apt analogy. No single home run can be attributed to steroids. But it'd take a fool to think that the existence of home runs before steroids somehow disproves that steroids are effective for hitting more home runs. But that's exactly what's argued here. "Lots of players hit home runs all the time. It's always been part of the game. Steroids don't have anything to do with it."

The entire question in this OP as a strawman to begin with. If you reply "global warming caused it!" you're rightly thought a fool. If you answer "it was just rain and weather" you're somehow implicitly denying that climate patterns affect it. There's a truth, and it's far more nuanced.  But deniers don't like to deal in nuance, they prefer to boil the world down to strict black and white, yes and no. It's the mindset of simpletons. This was, in fact, just another home run.  A single home run says nothing.  But keep your eyes open. Don't let spin-doctors on either side do your thinking for you. Look at the data for yourself.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 19
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7214
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 6:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 16 2013, 11:57 pm)
QUOTE

(hikerjer @ Sep. 16 2013, 8:38 pm)
QUOTE

(KenV @ Sep. 16 2013, 3:15 am)
QUOTE
A series of random events that combined to make a very unusual event.  Kinda like the "perfect storm".

I think I pretty much have to agree with Ken V on this one although one certainly cannot rule out the possibility of climate change in which man has probably had a hand.  Simple truth is, none of really know for sure.

Of course that's true. All that "caused" the event was a lot of rain and a blocking weather pattern. Thousand-year storms still happen every thousand years give or take, regardless of anything else going on. That alone neither supports nor does it negate any evidence of larger climatic changes. It's a non-sequitur to try and assign blame for any single event.

But trends continue.  A thousand year storm every 500-1500 years is normal. A 100 year storm several times a decade is not. That happening in many regions, many times over points to something else.

The baseball player on steroids is still an apt analogy. No single home run can be attributed to steroids. But it'd take a fool to think that the existence of home runs before steroids somehow disproves that steroids are effective for hitting more home runs. But that's exactly what's argued here. "Lots of players hit home runs all the time. It's always been part of the game. Steroids don't have anything to do with it."

The entire question in this OP as a strawman to begin with. If you reply "global warming caused it!" you're rightly thought a fool. If you answer "it was just rain and weather" you're somehow implicitly denying that climate patterns affect it. There's a truth, and it's far more nuanced.  But deniers don't like to deal in nuance, they prefer to boil the world down to strict black and white, yes and no. It's the mindset of simpletons. This was, in fact, just another home run.  A single home run says nothing.  But keep your eyes open. Don't let spin-doctors on either side do your thinking for you. Look at the data for yourself.

This is a sincere question.

Are "hundred year" weather events happening more frequently in many places on the planet?

Where would you suggest I go to read about this in more detail?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16363
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 10:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ken,

I'm trying to find sources that aren't closed-access research journals.  I get a little spoiled sometimes, being on a University network with instant access to all the major research journals (Journal of Climate, Nature, Nature Climate Change, Journal of Geophysical Research - Earth Surfaces, Geophysical Research Letters, et. al.).  There are a number of studies in there, but lemme see if I can find some elsewhere.

It's a good question.  I'm trying to give it a good answer.

- Mike


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 21
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16363
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 10:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't have a ton of time do this research this morning, so I'm just gonna have to give you some links to closed-access journal articles.  It's disappointing, I know, and I apologize.  If you can track down abstracts and/or summaries of these articles, it's a start.  There are many more.

A decade of weather extremes
Dim Coumou & Stefan Rahmstorf
Nature Climate Change 2, 491–496 (2012) doi:10.1038/nclimate1452
Published online 25 March 2012

Climate Extremes: Observations, Modeling, and Impacts
David R. Easterling1,*, Gerald A. Meehl2, Camille Parmesan3, Stanley A. Changnon4, Thomas R. Karl1, Linda O. Mearns2
Science 22 September 2000:
Vol. 289 no. 5487 pp. 2068-2074
DOI: 10.1126/science.289.5487.2068

Monitoring and Understanding Changes in Extremes: Extratropical Storms, Winds, and Waves
Russell S. Vose , Scott Applequist , Mark A. Bourassa , Sara C. Pryor , Rebecca J. Barthelmie , Brian Blanton , Peter D. Bromirski , Harold E. Brooks , Arthur T. DeGaetano , Randall M. Dole , David R. Easterling , Robert E. Jensen , Thomas R. Karl , Richard W. Katz , Katherine Klink , Michael C. Kruk , Kenneth E. Kunkel , Michael C. MacCracken , Thomas C. Peterson , Karsten Shein , Bridget R. Thomas , John E. Walsh , Xiaolan L. Wang , Michael F. Wehner , Donald J. Wuebbles , and Robert S. Young
Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society 2013
doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00162.1

Changes in rainfall seasonality in the tropics
Xue Feng, Amilcare Porporato & Ignacio Rodriguez-Iturbe
Nature Climate Change 3, 811–815 (2013) doi:10.1038/nclimate1907
Received 20 August 2012 Accepted 18 April 2013 Published online 19 May 2013


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 22
WalksWithBlackflies Search for posts by this member.
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10117
Joined: Jun. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 11:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The cause is not global warming, or God's/Spindle's wrath, or convergence of moisture-laden air at a stalled cold front exacerbated by uplift over the front range. The REAL cause, quite obviously, is Colorado's cloud seeding program. So insidious it is, that they are already using the media to cover up any involvement...

http://news.yahoo.com/cloud-s....85.html

:D


--------------
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6712
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You could do a little digging, and thinking, on your own here.  There is a great deal of data, and some great graphics:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/climate-monitoring/

Here is one data graph that seems interesting, but there are many, many others:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/cei/graph/4/01-12


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16363
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 12:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Sep. 17 2013, 9:47 am)
QUOTE
Here is one data graph that seems interesting, but there are many, many others:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/cei/graph/4/01-12

Thank you.  That's far better than the articles I was trying to drudge up.  Look at all the charts.  Peruse through the listed indicators.  Just the data.

ETA: And a couple others, whether you're into looking at graphs or reading reports.
http://www.climate.gov/maps-data
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/2012-state-climate-report-released
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 25
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 12:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 16 2013, 8:57 pm)
QUOTE

(hikerjer @ Sep. 16 2013, 8:38 pm)
QUOTE

(KenV @ Sep. 16 2013, 3:15 am)
QUOTE
A series of random events that combined to make a very unusual event.  Kinda like the "perfect storm".

I think I pretty much have to agree with Ken V on this one although one certainly cannot rule out the possibility of climate change in which man has probably had a hand.  Simple truth is, none of really know for sure.

Of course that's true. All that "caused" the event was a lot of rain and a blocking weather pattern. Thousand-year storms still happen every thousand years give or take, regardless of anything else going on. That alone neither supports nor does it negate any evidence of larger climatic changes. It's a non-sequitur to try and assign blame for any single event.

But trends continue.  A thousand year storm every 500-1500 years is normal. A 100 year storm several times a decade is not. That happening in many regions, many times over points to something else.

The baseball player on steroids is still an apt analogy. No single home run can be attributed to steroids. But it'd take a fool to think that the existence of home runs before steroids somehow disproves that steroids are effective for hitting more home runs. But that's exactly what's argued here. "Lots of players hit home runs all the time. It's always been part of the game. Steroids don't have anything to do with it."

The entire question in this OP as a strawman to begin with. If you reply "global warming caused it!" you're rightly thought a fool. If you answer "it was just rain and weather" you're somehow implicitly denying that climate patterns affect it. There's a truth, and it's far more nuanced.  But deniers don't like to deal in nuance, they prefer to boil the world down to strict black and white, yes and no. It's the mindset of simpletons. This was, in fact, just another home run.  A single home run says nothing.  But keep your eyes open. Don't let spin-doctors on either side do your thinking for you. Look at the data for yourself.

A big +1
Thanks GBH
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10888
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 4:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I tend to agree with GBH on his take.  Still, it's all happening too fast and recently to make hard and fast calls. If we get some more "thousand year"events in then next coher we can or are willing to do anything about it, is a whole nother issue.

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
Gabby Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6324
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 17 2013, 5:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I was of the camp that this was NOT AGW-related, but that graph is a "Wow!" if I ever saw one.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/cei/graph/4/01-12
The most interesting (IMHO) aspect of the graph is the "regional" assessments. The "West" graph seems a great deal more of a "cyclical" kind of thing, but look at the Northeast!

Caveat: I am far from any kind of "expert", as anyone hereabouts certainly already knows - but still, I'm floored by this data.

ETA: Take a look at the Northeast region, both "Extremes in Maximum Temperatures" and "Extremes in Minimum Temperatures" (as well as the "Extremes in One Day Precip" I ref'd above). It is very likely I am misinterpreting the data, but anyway...
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
tamarac Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1076
Joined: Jan. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 18 2013, 9:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For Dave and others who think anthropogenic warming has not been 'proven' please spend some time on this website. Everything is answered here.

We are not smarter that climate scientists, sorry.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
double cabin Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16645
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 18 2013, 1:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We all know the earth goes through its cycles with volcanoes, etc. We however also know HSF's pointing out the insuation varibale has never been fully refuted in  the pages of this forum let alone peer reviewed science. To suggest that we couldn't possibly be exascerbating natural cycles with all the carbon we emit now is with all due respect and IMO denial to put it kindly. The only interests with something to gain by continuing industrial indulgence is industry itself.

Regardless of how we feel about the theory of AGW to care about the world means to want the cleanest air we can have to breathe and the cleanest water we can have to drink. While watersheds around the world are lost to avarice suggesting we can let industry work out its own problems is to not care what happens for our children and their children.


--------------
We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.

http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
tamarac Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1076
Joined: Jan. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 18 2013, 2:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Climate Change denial myth number 1-the climate has changed before-just a short commentary from Skeptical Science-

A common skeptic argument is that climate has changed naturally in the past, long before SUVs and coal-fired power plants, so humans can't be the cause of the current global warming. Peer-reviewed research shows this is not the case.

It's important to know there are a number of different forces acting on the Earth’s climate. When the sun gets brighter, the planet receives more energy and warms. When volcanoes erupt, they emit particles into the atmosphere which reflect sunlight, and the planet cools. When there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the planet warms. It's worth remembering that without some greenhouse gas  the Earth would be a ball of ice.

These forces are called "forcings" because they force changes in the global average temperature.

Looking at the past gives us insight into how our climate responds to such forcings. Using ice cores, for instance, we can work out past temperature changes, the level of solar activity, and the amount of greenhouse gases and volcanic dust in the atmosphere. Looking at many different periods and timescales including many thousands of years ago we've learned that when the Earth gains heat, glaciers and sea ice melt resulting in a positive feedbacks that amplify the warming. There are other positive feedbacks as well and this is why the planet has experienced such dramatic changes in temperature in the past.

In summary the past reveals our climate is highly sensitive to small changes in heat.

What does that mean for today? Over the past 150 years greenhouse gas levels have increased 40 percent mainly from burning of fossil fuels. This additional "forcing" is warming the planet more than it has in thousands of years. From Earth's history, we know that positive feedbacks will amplify this additional warming.

The Earth's climate has changed in the past and ice cores and other measures tell us why. Based on this knowledge, and other types of evidence we know the human emissions of greenhouse gases are warming the climate.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
52 replies since Sep. 16 2013, 12:58 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 212>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply What caused the Mega Event in CO ?
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions