SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 41234>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Why We Should Accept Science Over Belief< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6763
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 4:54 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow, change that makes a difference.

I am so encouraged to find a glimmer of hope that many of the well educated and articulate posters here could have the same epiphany that converted this young libertarian to a rational view.

Change we can believe in!  heh

The clash between scientific facts and ideologies was on display at the 2013 FreedomFest conference in Las Vegas—the largest gathering of libertarians in the world—where I participated in two debates, one on gun control and the other on climate change. I love FreedomFest because it supercharges my belief engine. But this year I was so discouraged by the rampant denial of science that I wanted to turn in my libertarian membership card. At the gun-control debate (as in my debates with Lott around the country), proposing even modest measures that would have almost no effect on freedom—such as background checks—brought on opprobrium as if I had burned a copy of the U.S. Constitution on stage. In the climate debate, when I showed that between 90 and 98 percent of climate scientists accept anthropogenic global warming, someone shouted, “LIAR!” and stormed out of the room.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....beliefs


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 5:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 5:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Amazing, that.

Religion doesn't?


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 4
mtnsteve Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2442
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 5:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 2:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Did you get that from the New Testament or the Old Testament  :)

--------------
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."
Helen Keller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 5
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 5:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(mtnsteve @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:41 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 2:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Did you get that from the New Testament or the Old Testament  :)

:laugh:

--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 6
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 6:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 19 2013, 5:42 pm)
QUOTE

(mtnsteve @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:41 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 2:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Did you get that from the New Testament or the Old Testament  :)

:laugh:

Don't think that's in the Bible.

For one: science does get rewritten all the time.  That's a good thing as our understanding of reality gets stood on it's head regularly.  What we think we know today is proven wrong tomorrow.

For two: faith or belief is beyond reality.  The books that faith leans on are, for the most part, unchanging.  Whether they be the Bible, or the Theravada.

Science is good.  Faith is good.  Even if it's faith in science.


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 6:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 19 2013, 2:42 pm)
QUOTE

(mtnsteve @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:41 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 2:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Did you get that from the New Testament or the Old Testament  :)

:laugh:

:D  :laugh:
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 6:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 4:01 pm)
QUOTE
Don't think that's in the Bible.

For one: science does get rewritten all the time.  That's a good thing as our understanding of reality gets stood on it's head regularly.  What we think we know today is proven wrong tomorrow.

For two: faith or belief is beyond reality.  The books that faith leans on are, for the most part, unchanging.  Whether they be the Bible, or the Theravada.

Science is good.  Faith is good.  Even if it's faith in science.

True enough.  I don't disagree with that, expect that your summary of science (getting stood on its head) is a bit over-simplistic, and misleadingly so.

The question brought up in the OP relates to situations when scientific evidence directly refutes what one happens to believe.  Which one, then, is "good"?  A trickier situation, that one is.  Did you read the article?

And personal beliefs do change regularly.  Typically less so as one gets older, for better or worse.  But as a young child I used to believe in Santa Clause, for what it's worth.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 9
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 6:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yea, science getting stood on it's head is horsefeathers.

http://science.discovery.com/strange-science/10-science-mistakes.htm


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
Gabby Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6501
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 6:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 5:43 pm)
QUOTE
Yea, science getting stood on it's head is horsefeathers.

http://science.discovery.com/strange-science/10-science-mistakes.htm

Oh boy! There's a hell of a lot of good science here!

QUOTE
6: The Earth Is Only 6,000 Years Old
Once upon a time, the Bible was considered a scientific work. Really. People just kind of assumed it was accurate, even when it didn't make much sense.


Alchemy? Seriously?
:D

TDale, you're such a comic!!

P.S.: Now get some help - pretty please? (Are the "severely bored" prevented from obtaining weapons? Firecrackers?)
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:43 pm)
QUOTE
Yea, science getting stood on it's head is horsefeathers.

http://science.discovery.com/strange-science/10-science-mistakes.htm

#11, Human activities have nothing to do with the increased CO2 levels in our atmosphere.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 4:43 pm)
QUOTE
Yea, science getting stood on it's head is horsefeathers.

http://science.discovery.com/strange-science/10-science-mistakes.htm

You don't read too good, do ya'.  I didn't say "horsefeathers", or that nothing that ever claimed in history by any scientist ever has later been proven wrong.

Just that your statement was overly-simplistic, and misleadingly so.  It was deliberately misleading.  You're leaving open the door that everything and anything shown in science (and hence, anything you conveniently don't feel like believing) can simply be disproven later.  It's the last refuge of the simpleton.

Don't wanna believe in gravity?  Point to beliefs in alchemy a thousand years ago.  Wham-bam, you can disprove anything.  It doesn't matter how many independent experiments are performed that repeatedly verify in every way that carbon dioxide absorbs long-wave radiation.  You've got alchemy in your pocket, therefore anything you don't want to believe is automatically untrue.

You're simply illustrating first-hand the phenomenon pointed out by the article in the OP.  Good job.

You still haven't addressed the question of what happens when science disagrees with belief.  Or, maybe you have, just not in the way you intended.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 13
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Blue, keep that rigidness in your belief system and you go the way of religion.

--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 5:22 pm)
QUOTE
Blue, keep that rigidness in your belief system and you go the way of religion.

I welcome new beliefs and theories, as long as they come with evidence.

There's a gigantic difference there.

If you can disprove a long-held theory in science with new evidence, you've made yourself a very successful scientist.  Nobel Prizes are won on such evidence.  That is, if religion doesn't stone you to death for it first.

ETA: I'm not the one espousing rigidness.  That was you, right there in Post #2.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 15
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Case in point.  You see that as evidence for rigid belief being better.  I see the opposite.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 16
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 19 2013, 7:31 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 3:39 pm)
QUOTE
Y'know the difference between science and belief?

Science gets rewritten all the time.

Case in point.  You see that as evidence for rigid belief being better.  I see the opposite.

You mistake me.  I'm not religious.

I'm simply arguing the point that science gets rewriitten more often than religion.

In college, many years ago, I met people that treated Siddhartha as a religious text.  Later, I met people that treated The Celestine Prophecies as religious texts.  My Southern Baptist parents have a fervent desire for me to "find God".

What they can't accept is that I have found God.  He's not in a church, not in a meeting of like minded people.

I think he abhors modern religion.

I think he loves our exploration of the natural world.

BUT, science as it exists today is not how it will exist tomorrow.  Our understanding of the reality around us changes constantly.  

Ever notice that there are no "mea culpas" in science?  "I was wrong" is not said.  That is where I disagree with modern science.  Pure arrogance.


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
Gabby Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6501
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 6:45 pm)
QUOTE
Ever notice that there are no "mea culpas" in science?  "I was wrong" is not said.  That is where I disagree with modern science.  Pure arrogance.

Are you kidding? Again?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
cweston Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2900
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 7:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 5:01 pm)
QUOTE
The books that faith leans on are, for the most part, unchanging.  

FWIW...

Yes, but that doesn't mean that faith is unchanging. It would be equally wrong to say that US governance never changes because the Constitution doesn't change (much).

There is, and always has been, a huge diversity of people believing different things based on the same Bible, for example.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 8:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Sep. 19 2013, 7:51 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 5:01 pm)
QUOTE
The books that faith leans on are, for the most part, unchanging.  

FWIW...

Yes, but that doesn't mean that faith is unchanging. It would be equally wrong to say that US governance never changes because the Constitution doesn't change (much).

There is, and always has been, a huge diversity of people believing different things based on the same Bible, for example.

Sure.  That's man attempting to control man.  That's what religion is, to me.

The texts remain unchanged.


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
JimmyC Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12581
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 8:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Take all the science and belief you want, the answer is Faith....................

--------------


Trolls need love too...........
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6649
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 9:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimmyC @ Sep. 19 2013, 7:16 pm)
QUOTE
Take all the science and belief you want, the answer is Faith....................

For many people, their faith leads them to believe the earth is only a few thousand years old.

When faith is demonstrably wrong, clinging to it is irrational. It was faith that led to the persecution of Gallileo for celestial observations that even the most fundamental of Christians accept now.
(question: do you believe the earth revolves around the sun?)

Today's fundamentalists don't understand that when it comes to conflicts with science, faith has given way to acceptance of science when the evidence is overwhelming.

What they also don't seem to understand is they do not necessarily have to choose between one or the other. Render unto science as ye rendered unto Caeser what was his. Most of the supposed conflict is more attributable to the words of men over the ages than to the "word of God."

Regarding the OP and what the author encountered at Freedomfest, it is a prime example of fervently held political ideology trumping science and reason.

Jimmy, you would have been right at home there  :laugh:


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
tamarac Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1076
Joined: Jan. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 10:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What Tdummy and reactionary traditional thinkers do not understand is that Science is supposed to be rewritten, By design. That's what the Scientific method does. Scientific inquiry and discovery is not about absolute truths it is about levels of probability. Every Scientist worth his salt knows that his hypothesis may be falsified or his theory may be overturned, based on empirical findings.

If you want unsupported certainty based on ancient myth superstition and faith turn to religion. If you want probabilities of truth, accept Scientific consensus...for now with the realization that future evidence could change those probabilities one way or the other.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 19 2013, 11:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 19 2013, 5:45 pm)
QUOTE
Ever notice that there are no "mea culpas" in science?  "I was wrong" is not said.  That is where I disagree with modern science.  Pure arrogance.

Have you ever actually read a peer reviewed manuscript, TDale?  It's obvious you have some preconceived simplistic stereotype about science, but your grasp of reality is more than a little far fetched.

In other words, you couldn't possibly be more wrong if you were trying. Your notion stems from blatant willful ignorance.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 24
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5299
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 8:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So Shermer got upset because hiss ideology of stupid firearms regulations got trumped by the facts that show silly laws are not obeyed by criminals....poor guy

--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
WalksWithBlackflies Search for posts by this member.
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10265
Joined: Jun. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 9:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

But doesn't belief drive science?

Like: I believe we can cure cancer by creating a vaccine, etc.


--------------
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 9:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 19 2013, 11:20 pm)
QUOTE
Have you ever actually read a peer reviewed manuscript, TDale?  It's obvious you have some preconceived simplistic stereotype about science, but your grasp of reality is more than a little far fetched.

In other words, you couldn't possibly be more wrong if you were trying. Your notion stems from blatant willful ignorance.

Yep.  Still do.  In my first bout with college, the major was a toss up between marine biology and industrial management.  Since the economy was tanking I went to industry so I could have a job later.

As for my "grasp of reality" and "blatant willful ignorance", well, as Willie sang:" I got a couple more years on ya'".  As in decades.  History and experience prove me right.  The best scientists are the cynics.


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15552
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Sep. 19 2013, 10:18 pm)
QUOTE
What Tdummy and reactionary traditional thinkers do not understand is that Science is supposed to be rewritten, By design. That's what the Scientific method does. Scientific inquiry and discovery is not about absolute truths it is about levels of probability. Every Scientist worth his salt knows that his hypothesis may be falsified or his theory may be overturned, based on empirical findings.

If you want unsupported certainty based on ancient myth superstition and faith turn to religion. If you want probabilities of truth, accept Scientific consensus...for now with the realization that future evidence could change those probabilities one way or the other.

And then there's you.

I respect Blue.  He's a good scientist and a good backpacker and a good human.  I'll argue with him.

You're just a johnny come lately that think derision is a social skill.  In the vernacular you're used to: GFY.


--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6649
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 10:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Sep. 20 2013, 8:35 am)
QUOTE
But doesn't belief drive science?

Like: I believe we can cure cancer by creating a vaccine, etc.

No, not even close. Scientists will make every effort to discover the means to cure cancer, but it is not founded on a belief that success is certain.

--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6649
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 10:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 20 2013, 7:14 am)
QUOTE
So Shermer got upset because hiss ideology of stupid firearms regulations got trumped by the facts that show silly laws are not obeyed by criminals....poor guy

^^prime example of ideology, stupidly expressed^^

Gee, let's not have laws that criminals might break ... even laws that prevent criminals from legally purchasing firearms over the counter.  :p

Because gun nuts are so paranoid that any firearm regulation inevitably leads to a slippery slope abolishing the 2nd Amendment, they insist that no effort should be made to close loopholes in the system of background checks we've had for years.

It's that kind of nonsensical intransigence that is losing the debate for the NRA -- and apparently alienating some reasonable people who would otherwise be allies on the conservative side of politics.


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
Ecocentric Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 10:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Science is a self correcting system that thrives on failed ideas. Every scientist worth his salt has tested good ideas that didn't pan out. FOX news doesn't report on most of that, so some people might not understand that part of the process. There is a frontier of knowledge, that is where ideas get stood on their head, not the ideas that were proven centuries ago. The rate of discovery is growing geometrically so some science is pretty secure after only decades of confirmation. It was 100 years ago that it was discovered that CO2 is opaque to the infrared spectrum of light. That is physics, plain and simple. Only boobs think that isn't relevant to climate.

--------------
"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
103 replies since Sep. 19 2013, 4:54 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 41234>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Why We Should Accept Science Over Belief
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions