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Topic: Food Stamp cuts?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 11:03 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.nytimes.com/2013....ps.html

Despite alarms about children, disabled, and the elderly starving because of this Bill (death panels?), I can’t find much fault with the actual Bill:

http://www.gop.gov/bill/113/1/hr3102

Cuts seem directed at able bodied adults without dependents. I don’t think anyone should go without food. But, I’m not sure that means-tested welfare should be limitless.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 11:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Since waste, fraud and abuse are the conerstones of any government program.....limiting their budget is the only way to get them to try harder. They could probably find the $$ by limiting their advertising campaigns designed to increase the number of folks on FS....maybe start by eliminating the marketing to illegals

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 11:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Limiting recruitment activities and immigration verification is included in the Bill.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 11:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A savings of $4 billion/year compared to  an estimated $110-$430 billion on interest incurred on debt for past wars.

I'm sure there are meaningful, responsible cuts that can be made everywhere, but this is nothing but pandering that will have no meaningful savings. States that have already tried drug testing beneficiaries are finding it costs more to test than savings accrued for failed tests.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Most people believe that hungry people are more motivated to find work - and that hungry students are more motivated to learn. I say, "let them eat cake".

From Americans Throw Away Half Their Food:

"As a country, we're essentially tossing every other piece of food that crosses our path. That's money and precious resources down the drain," said Dana Gunders, a scientist with the Natural Resources Defense Council's food and agriculture program.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 11:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jcb @ Sep. 20 2013, 11:37 am)
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A savings of $4 billion/year compared to  an estimated $110-$430 billion on interest incurred on debt for past wars.

I'm sure there are meaningful, responsible cuts that can be made everywhere, but this is nothing but pandering that will have no meaningful savings. States that have already tried drug testing beneficiaries are finding it costs more to test than savings accrued for failed tests.

Of course it is pandering (it is not going anywhere), and it is absurdly insignificant when compared to the debt. But, are the actual proposed cuts unjustified?


Drug tests are not mandated, only “allowed” under the Bill.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just more childish sophistry by the Party of NO.

They are very much like the more blatant trolls on a discussion site like this one.

No substance, no production, just keep the attention focussed on the phony proposal, hoping that will prevent any positive action that could benifit the American middle and lower classes.

Won't work all the time, but it will keep a Democrat in the White House.

You have to wonder if these Tea Hatters ever look beyond the next House election??


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jcb @ Sep. 20 2013, 9:37 am)
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A savings of $4 billion/year compared to  an estimated $110-$430 billion on interest incurred on debt for past wars.

Where do you get that figure since the interest on the entire national debt is "only" $220B/year.

But why "pick on" just wars? There really shouldn't be any national debt with accruing interest.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Sep. 20 2013, 11:51 am)
QUOTE
Most people believe that hungry people are more motivated to find work - and that hungry students are more motivated to learn. I say, "let them eat cake".

From Americans Throw Away Half Their Food:

"As a country, we're essentially tossing every other piece of food that crosses our path. That's money and precious resources down the drain," said Dana Gunders, a scientist with the Natural Resources Defense Council's food and agriculture program.

Should they really be able to eat cake?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013....21.html

I’m can’t even imagine what the hardship must be like when your are dependent on SNAP assistance to feed your family. But, I can also understand how someone struggling (without assistance) would be resentful that they are paying taxes to assist people to purchase what they themselves cannot afford.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I find it very telling that they found $39 billion to cut in food stamps but not a dollar in Farm Subsidies.

Corporate welfare is alive and well!
It's those damn welfare mothers and people working at Wal Mart for min wage and no insurance ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Sep. 20 2013, 11:03 am)
QUOTE
http://www.nytimes.com/2013....ps.html

Despite alarms about children, disabled, and the elderly starving because of this Bill (death panels?), I can’t find much fault with the actual Bill:

http://www.gop.gov/bill/113/1/hr3102

Cuts seem directed at able bodied adults without dependents. I don’t think anyone should go without food. But, I’m not sure that means-tested welfare should be limitless.

No said anyone is actually going to starve as in death panel that I know of

and for someone who gripes over and over again about how hard the economy is for everyone but those
who are wealthy, you should be more understanding. Fact is almost 47 million people are in poverty
right now and so this isn't a time to cut food stamps.

In the NY times article you quoted it quoted this Republican


“In the real world, we measure success by results. It’s time for Washington to measure success by
how many families are lifted out of poverty and helped back on their feet, not by how much Washington
bureaucrats spend year after year.”


On that note here are the facts


Meanwhile, and more important, the program seems awfully good at doing what it is supposed to do:
keep low-income people from going hungry or struggling even more financially. In 2011, according
to the Center’s analysis, "SNAP kept about 4.7 million people out of poverty in 2011, including
about 2.1 million children. SNAP also lifted 1.5 million children out of deep poverty (defined

as 50 percent of the poverty line) in 2011, more than any other government assistance program."

Research by Kathryn Edin from Harvard and Luke Shaefer at the University of Michigan, two of
the country’s leading scholars of poverty, has found that SNAP alone significantly reduces the
number of households with children living on $2 a day.



http://www.newrepublic.com/article....poverty

This is the program you think should be cut.

By the way what is truly despicable is that these Republicans who voted to cut food stamps voted
for more corporate welfare in the form of farm subsidies and some of those Republican actually
personally benefit from those farm subsides.

"Almost Two Dozen Members Of Congress Get Farm Subsidies"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/04/the-watchdog_n_844433.html


The biggest beneficiaries of farm subsidies in the current Congress have been:
· Rep. Stephen Fincher (R-Tennessee) $3,368,843
· Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R-Missouri) $469,292
· Rep. Kristi Noem (R-South Dakota) $443,748
· Sen. John Tester (D-Montana) $442,303

· Rep. Tom Latham (R-Iowa) $330,046


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(mtnsteve @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:25 pm)
QUOTE
I find it very telling that they found $39 billion to cut in food stamps but not a dollar in Farm Subsidies.

Corporate welfare is alive and well!
It's those damn welfare mothers and people working at Wal Mart for min wage and no insurance ???

Farm Bill
Ten year cost 195.6 Billion
Cut 12.9 Billion (6% cut)

Food Stamps
Ten year cost 700 Billion
Cut 39 Billion (5% cut)
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, the farm subsidies are particularly galling. And don't get me started on the ethanol hoax.

You know what might really help? Universal preschool. If for no other reason it would allow more parents to work a regular job without having to hassle with finding a sitter. It is really a challenge for families to juggle care for newborns and toddlers.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We should make everyone on food stamps go work on the farm.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 20 2013, 11:11 am)
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Since waste, fraud and abuse are the conerstones of any government program.....limiting their budget is the only way to get them to try harder. They could probably find the $$ by limiting their advertising campaigns designed to increase the number of folks on FS....maybe start by eliminating the marketing to illegals

"Since waste, fraud and abuse are the conerstones of any government program"

endlessly spewing right-wing narrative after right-wing narrative.

how much fraud do you think actually goes in SNAP as a % the program?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:50 pm)
QUOTE

(mtnsteve @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:25 pm)
QUOTE
I find it very telling that they found $39 billion to cut in food stamps but not a dollar in Farm Subsidies.

Corporate welfare is alive and well!
It's those damn welfare mothers and people working at Wal Mart for min wage and no insurance ???

Farm Bill
Ten year cost 195.6 Billion
Cut 12.9 Billion (6% cut)

Food Stamps
Ten year cost 700 Billion
Cut 39 Billion (5% cut)

got a link on the above?

Of course it is absurd to compare cutting farm subsidies to cutting food stamps. Which of the two is a
program for people that really need what the program provides the most?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 12:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As far as children, stop having them if you can't afford them.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 1:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We should make everyone on food stamps go work on the farm.

Very funny.  Little kids driving $2 Million worth of equipment, programming the spray attachment and maintaining navigation with the GPS while on the go.

Sounds like a winner!


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 20 2013, 9:59 am)
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As far as children, stop having them if you can't afford them.

+1
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(Marmotstew @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:53 pm)
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We should make everyone on food stamps go work on the farm.

Unfortunately, that would never work….these are jobs that Americans “won’t do”, and we need to import temporary foreign labor to fill these jobs.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 1:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:59 pm)
QUOTE
As far as children, stop having them if you can't afford them.

Ah but Tdale, does that mean that if a woman who becomes pregnant and isn't in a economic situation
to have children that you would be fine with that woman having an abortion? Does this mean that
right-wingers like Rick Santorum, that have somewhat hostile views on contraception, are wrong?
Does that mean the "Be fruitful and multiply" verse in the bible isn't all what it was cracked up
to be?


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(TDale @ Sep. 20 2013, 11:59 am)
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As far as children, stop having them if you can't afford them.

I'm glad to hear there is at least one rightwinger who supports the Planned Parenthood program  :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 1:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

markinOhio said
QUOTE

But, I can also understand how someone struggling (without assistance) would be resentful that they are paying
taxes to assist people to purchase what they themselves cannot afford.


In those situations shouldn't those people qualify for SNAP and if they can't qualify shouldn't they?

Sounds like that situation is another case of misdirected anger which is what the politicians are counting
on who bash SNAP as a way to pander to their tea party base


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 20 2013, 1:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Waste fraud and abuse are the cornerstones of American Corporations. I know I have worked for one for 34 years.

These things are simply unbelievable in the Corporate Industrial Complex. Zero accountability, just bonus awards for CEO's cheating.
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(Marmotstew @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:53 pm)
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We should make everyone on food stamps go work on the farm.

I have heard that detasseling corn is one of the great character-building activities of our time.

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There aren't many here that would last a week on the farm. There are some that aren't even smart enough to do the work.

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(Drift Woody @ Sep. 20 2013, 1:45 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ Sep. 20 2013, 11:59 am)
QUOTE
As far as children, stop having them if you can't afford them.

I'm glad to hear there is at least one rightwinger who supports the Planned Parenthood program  :)

By all and any means, please abort yourselves out of the world.

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(markinOhio @ Sep. 20 2013, 10:15 am)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:53 pm)
QUOTE
We should make everyone on food stamps go work on the farm.

Unfortunately, that would never work….these are jobs that Americans “won’t do”, and we need to import temporary foreign labor to fill these jobs.

The reason the corporations don't want immigration reform to pass and seriously stop illegals from coming into this country is that's who works for them.

People cross the border illegally because someone here hires them. If you are serious about stopping them you don't need a bigger fence, you need to fine and arrest the people who hire them in the first place.

We arrest the people who buy illegal drugs, why don't we arrest the people who hire illegal immigrants?


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(mtnsteve @ Sep. 20 2013, 4:35 pm)
QUOTE

(markinOhio @ Sep. 20 2013, 10:15 am)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ Sep. 20 2013, 12:53 pm)
QUOTE
We should make everyone on food stamps go work on the farm.

Unfortunately, that would never work….these are jobs that Americans “won’t do”, and we need to import temporary foreign labor to fill these jobs.

The reason the corporations don't want immigration reform to pass and seriously stop illegals from coming into this country is that's who works for them.

People cross the border illegally because someone here hires them.

People cross the border legally for the same reason.

But yeah, employers need to be held liable for observing federal law in employment relationships.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 21 2013, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

mtnsteve
QUOTE
We arrest the people who buy illegal drugs, why don't we arrest the people who hire illegal immigrants?


We arrest PEOPLE who buy illegal drugs. We fine CORPORATIONS who hire illegal immigrants - and those CORPORATIONS either simply go bankrupt or pass the expense of the fine to the owners.

An oversimplified example is an incorporated residential home builder who hires illegal immigrants at a fraction of the cost of legal workers. Let's call his corporation XYZ Builders. He also owns ABC Builders corporation - which is currently not constructing a new home. He also owns DEF corporation - the corporation which owns the home that is under construction and has "contracted" with XYZ to build the home.

As "owner" of XYZ Builders, he is a paid employee for accounting purposes. His "pay" is determined to deliberately keep the "assets" of XYZ corporation at a minimum necessary to sustain operations. The "owner" of course determines his own "salary" or "pay". The corporation is simply a cash passthrough which erects a shield from personal liability.

So when XYZ corporation is caught with illegals on the "payroll" ( more likely they are paid in cash at the end of each day ) - then the CORPORATION is cited. Since a CORPORATION can't be put in jail, it is fined. If the fine is more than the assets kept on hand by XYZ corporation - then XYZ corporation simply goes bankrupt.

Meanwhile, DEF corporation simply contracts with ABC corporation the day after the citation is issued to XYZ to complete the construction of the new home. DEF corporation may or may not hire the same illegal workers to work on the contract to finish DEF corporation's home. Upon the sale of the newly constructed residential home by DEF corporation, the "owner", as a paid employee, receives a portion of the profits as salary. The amount of his "salary" is determined by his tax situation that year.

That is one oversimplified example of why people who hire illegal immigrants are seldom arrested. It is also an oversimplified example of why corporate executives and board members are able to walk away with such large amounts of ill gotten gains. In rare cases though, the amounts of money involved and public outcry so great that people like Bernie Madoff actually DO end up in jail.
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