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Topic: What is the aim of Science?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 2:25 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

“The aim of science is not to open the door to infinite wisdom, but to set a limit to infinite error.”
&#8213; Bertolt Brecht, Life of Galileo

This says a lot and those who don't respect and understand Science should learn something here.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 2:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Reminds of some Einstein quotes:

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
Albert Einstein

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes....UXPK.99


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 4:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Indeed AE had some good ones. I particularly like this one-

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

Good thing he doubted the former because inflationary theory says he was wrong. :D
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 4:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The aim of science is to attempt to explain what we observe.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 5:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Science is the methodology by which we gain understanding of the physical universe. Many of the results have practical applications.

Unfortunately, our capacity to develop applications is not matched by the wisdom to aim it wisely.

This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 5:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Sep. 27 2013, 2:09 pm)
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This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs.

Forgive them, for they know not what they are talking about.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 6:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Sep. 27 2013, 5:09 pm)
QUOTE
Science is the methodology by which we gain understanding of the physical universe. Many of the results have practical applications.

Unfortunately, our capacity to develop applications is not matched by the wisdom to aim it wisely.

This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs.

"This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs."


And vice versa............


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 6:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimmyC @ Sep. 27 2013, 3:03 pm)
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"This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs."


And vice versa............

"Vice versa"? You mean people who dismiss their ideological beliefs when they conflict with science?

Actually, those people are helping.


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(TehipiteTom @ Sep. 27 2013, 6:05 pm)
QUOTE

(JimmyC @ Sep. 27 2013, 3:03 pm)
QUOTE
"This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs."


And vice versa............

"Vice versa"? You mean people who dismiss their ideological beliefs when they conflict with science?

Actually, those people are helping.

Yes TT................unlike some of you libbies, I don't just disagree because I don't always agree.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 6:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

May I humbly submit: Posts #7 and #9 are proof, prima facie, of post #3.

But, apparently, the poster of those first two cited is living proof of post #3 in virtually all his posts. Not that that comes as a surprise to anyone.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 6:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Sep. 27 2013, 6:23 pm)
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May I humbly submit: Posts #7 and #9 are proof, prima facie, of post #3.

But, apparently, the poster of those first two cited is living proof of post #3 in virtually all his posts. Not that that comes as a surprise to anyone.

Hold my hand Gabby....................

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 8:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimmyC @ Sep. 27 2013, 5:03 pm)
QUOTE

(Drift Woody @ Sep. 27 2013, 5:09 pm)
QUOTE
Science is the methodology by which we gain understanding of the physical universe. Many of the results have practical applications.

Unfortunately, our capacity to develop applications is not matched by the wisdom to aim it wisely.

This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs.

"This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs."


And vice versa............

Jimmy, I don't think you understand your own reply.

My phrase "This is not helped" referred to the lack of wisdom in aiming the applications of science -- the applications being technology, industry, weaponry, etc. Do you or do you not think wisdom is required in how we utilize the practical applications of science?

If you agree that wisdom is required, isn't it necessary to understand the science in order to utilize it responsibly?

Those who willfully dismiss science are incapable of utilizing it in a responsible manner. There is no vice versa in this regard; did you even bother thinking about what your response meant in this context?

I assume you meant the inverse: "This is not helped" by those who dismiss ideological beliefs when it conflicts with science.

But let's remember what "This" refers to: Wisdom in how we aim scientific applications.

I'll try to explain "This" in terms you can understand. Think of science as a gun, which is a tool that can be used responsibly or irresponsibly. If you don't understand how the gun works or the potential consequences of misusing it, you lack the knowledge and the wisdom to use the gun responsibly.

Like it or not, the applications of science are being used on a daily basis. Whether or not we do so responsibly depends in large part on a solid understanding of science.

Acting responsibly also depends on having an enlightened set of values, and making a conscious decision to act for the betterment of mankind. This is where philosophy -- such as the teachings of Jesus Christ -- have value in the context of science. Religion and science are not conflicting ideologies, because science is not an ideological set of beliefs. They are two very different things, more unlike each other than apples & oranges which are both fruit.

The apple was plucked from the tree of knowledge a long time ago. We can't put it back. The 21st century includes amazing scientific & technological advancements -- but it is a gun that requires proper aim.

If you don't understand how the gun works, you won't be able to aim it responsibly.

Nevertheless, that's what your dismissal of science amounts to -- a willful decision to be ignorant about a potentially dangerous tool.

I'm just trying to help you, Jimmy; do you understand?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 9:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Actually it is a little more complicated-science is a set of methodologies that attempts to describe what we do observe directly, and we can indirectly.

There are things that we cannot observe directly but we know exist, such as black holes, dark energy and matter, some sub-atomic particles etc.,
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 1:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Sep. 27 2013, 6:02 pm)
QUOTE
Actually it is a little more complicated-science is a set of methodologies that attempts to describe what we do observe directly, and we can indirectly.

There are things that we cannot observe directly but we know exist, such as black holes, dark energy and matter, some sub-atomic particles etc.,

We can not observe these things, yet. As technology progresses, better tools and methods will become available to scientists. Those fundamental questions about the universe will be addressed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 1:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Goal of science: fish out Deus absconditus.

Alternatively: explain nature.

Keep it simple.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 4:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Sep. 27 2013, 11:29 pm)
QUOTE
We can not observe these things, yet. As technology progresses, better tools and methods will become available to scientists. Those fundamental questions about the universe will be addressed.

I just posted this in another thread, but it somewhat  relates to your reply - you should head up to Tempe in Feb!

Great Debate Parallel Realities: Is There One Universe?
http://origins.asu.edu/events....niverse
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 4:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

science =                nature                    
              verifiable facts + irrefutable logic
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 4:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Sep. 28 2013, 1:29 am)
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[We can not observe these things, yet. As technology progresses, better tools and methods will become available to scientists. Those fundamental questions about the universe will be addressed.

And bring to light things we know little or nothing about along with disproving things we now think of as "fact".

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 5:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Sep. 27 2013, 8:09 pm)
QUOTE

(JimmyC @ Sep. 27 2013, 5:03 pm)
QUOTE

(Drift Woody @ Sep. 27 2013, 5:09 pm)
QUOTE
Science is the methodology by which we gain understanding of the physical universe. Many of the results have practical applications.

Unfortunately, our capacity to develop applications is not matched by the wisdom to aim it wisely.

This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs.

"This is not helped by people who dismiss science when it conflicts with their ideological beliefs."


And vice versa............

Jimmy, I don't think you understand your own reply.

My phrase "This is not helped" referred to the lack of wisdom in aiming the applications of science -- the applications being technology, industry, weaponry, etc. Do you or do you not think wisdom is required in how we utilize the practical applications of science?

If you agree that wisdom is required, isn't it necessary to understand the science in order to utilize it responsibly?

Those who willfully dismiss science are incapable of utilizing it in a responsible manner. There is no vice versa in this regard; did you even bother thinking about what your response meant in this context?

I assume you meant the inverse: "This is not helped" by those who dismiss ideological beliefs when it conflicts with science.

But let's remember what "This" refers to: Wisdom in how we aim scientific applications.

I'll try to explain "This" in terms you can understand. Think of science as a gun, which is a tool that can be used responsibly or irresponsibly. If you don't understand how the gun works or the potential consequences of misusing it, you lack the knowledge and the wisdom to use the gun responsibly.

Like it or not, the applications of science are being used on a daily basis. Whether or not we do so responsibly depends in large part on a solid understanding of science.

Acting responsibly also depends on having an enlightened set of values, and making a conscious decision to act for the betterment of mankind. This is where philosophy -- such as the teachings of Jesus Christ -- have value in the context of science. Religion and science are not conflicting ideologies, because science is not an ideological set of beliefs. They are two very different things, more unlike each other than apples & oranges which are both fruit.

The apple was plucked from the tree of knowledge a long time ago. We can't put it back. The 21st century includes amazing scientific & technological advancements -- but it is a gun that requires proper aim.

If you don't understand how the gun works, you won't be able to aim it responsibly.

Nevertheless, that's what your dismissal of science amounts to -- a willful decision to be ignorant about a potentially dangerous tool.

I'm just trying to help you, Jimmy; do you understand?

Drifty, Drifty, Drifty................I understand completely, it's libbies, that won't accept another way of thinking, even a little bit.
But the mere thought of you exposing Jesus Christ teachings sure makes everything you have said before a mute point.
And the gun thing, uh, a person doesn't need too know how it works (and I dare say a lot of people don't) to make it work, sometimes a bad aim is more deadly than a good aim. So Drifty, stop plucking fruit from trees and actually taste one, so you will have the knowledge of which is an apple and which is an orange.

Just tryin' to help.................... :;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 6:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Jimmy, I'm not sure if yer tryin or not, but alas you still don't understand.

You better get rid of your guns, since you don't know how they work or how to aim them. The "deadly" result can be a self inflicted wound.

You're right about one thing: the "other way of thinking" -- willful ignorance, with unintended consequences, is totally unacceptable.


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(Drift Woody @ Sep. 28 2013, 6:20 pm)
QUOTE
Jimmy, I'm not sure if yer tryin or not, but alas you still don't understand.

You better get rid of your guns, since you don't know how they work or how to aim them. The "deadly" result can be a self inflicted wound.

You're right about one thing: the "other way of thinking" -- willful ignorance, with unintended consequences, is totally unacceptable.

Now listen Drifty.................I understand the red one is an apple and the orange one is an orange.

I know how duns work and ,u aim is....okay.....and that makes it even more effective. It's kind of like a dog's bark and bite, and in that way, the sound keeps me from having to kill.

And, what is unacceptable to some is acceptable to others, making the "other way of thinking", the other way to think.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 8:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My bet is you don't understand dogs either, the reason being you make a conscious decision to choose willful ignorance.

I will never, ever, make that choice.

I also doubt you know JC, since the rightwing ideology which you embrace is antithetical to his teachings.

One of these days you'll wake up, I hope. Your country needs you.


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(tamarac @ Sep. 27 2013, 9:02 pm)
QUOTE
Actually it is a little more complicated-science is a set of methodologies that attempts to describe what we do observe directly, and we can indirectly.

There are things that we cannot observe directly but we know exist, such as black holes, dark energy and matter, some sub-atomic particles etc.,

It's the we know part that always throws me.

You don't "know" Jack Shmidtt.  You just want it accepted that you do.

Accept the uncertainty of your certainties and we might have a place to start having a discussion.


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"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
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(Drift Woody @ Sep. 28 2013, 8:15 pm)
QUOTE
My bet is you don't understand dogs either, the reason being you make a conscious decision to choose willful ignorance.

I will never, ever, make that choice.

I also doubt you know JC, since the rightwing ideology which you embrace is antithetical to his teachings.

One of these days you'll wake up, I hope. Your country needs you.

Drifty, I am a cat person over dogs, which is my conscious decision.

I consider that my choice.

Well, it's true I haven't met JC, although I believe I know him spiritually. But like libbies, THEY are the only ones that are ethical, or so THEY think.

And, I am wide awake, hoping this country wakes up to BO and his socialist thinking.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 9:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you think this president is a socialist, that's just more ignorance on your part. You're asleep, but you don't even know it.

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(tamarac @ Sep. 27 2013, 2:25 pm)
QUOTE
“The aim of science is not to open the door to infinite wisdom, but to set a limit to infinite error.”
&#8213; Bertolt Brecht, Life of Galileo

This says a lot and those who don't respect and understand Science should learn something here.

That last line is exceedingly ironic.  How so?  Because so many of the atheists on this fourm who claim to revere science and the rational mind repeatedly claim that science "proves" that god does not and cannot exist.
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(craigwill @ Sep. 28 2013, 4:34 pm)
QUOTE
science =                nature                    
              verifiable facts + irrefutable logic

Indeed.  But what happens when the right side of this equation is inverted?  I ask, because new discoveries are constantly turning science on its head.
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(Drift Woody @ Sep. 28 2013, 9:13 pm)
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If you think this president is a socialist, that's just more ignorance on your part. You're asleep, but you don't even know it.

Observation bias?  

Did someone say "is a socialist" or did he say " "socialist thinking".  I believe there is a significant difference.

Just as there is a huge difference between "our nation is socialist" and "our nation is sliding toward socialism".

So who's asleep again and is that the cause of the observation bias?
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(KenV @ Sep. 28 2013, 11:00 pm)
QUOTE

(tamarac @ Sep. 27 2013, 2:25 pm)
QUOTE
“The aim of science is not to open the door to infinite wisdom, but to set a limit to infinite error.”
&#8213; Bertolt Brecht, Life of Galileo

This says a lot and those who don't respect and understand Science should learn something here.

That last line is exceedingly ironic.  How so?  Because so many of the atheists on this fourm who claim to revere science and the rational mind repeatedly claim that science "proves" that god does not and cannot exist.

I've never read those words here. Perhaps they were implied, but more likely they were inferred by you, because that fits your narrative. You have a story to tell, and nothing that others say, will alter the divine revelation that you have to communicate to the world.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 11:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

There is no doubt, we have unanimous consent!

Jimmy's "mute" points are his best, by far.  

LOL


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