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Topic: will it really happen?, Govt. shutdown< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 4:15 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do we have a govt. shutdown and if so for how long? I personally think it's gonna shutdown this time, at least for a few days.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 4:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the republicans are smart, they will take this up to the brink and then capitulate.  That should generate more than enough high drama & noise to achieve what they seem to want - scaring the public about the boogeyman ACA.

If they actually go through with it, I think they will regret it.  A shutdown forces the American people to learn firsthand what the government actually does & how they benefit.  Republicans depend and thrive on civic ignorance.  

Keep your government hands off my medicare!!
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 5:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not a flattering reflection of American civic awareness, and not a good harbinger of our political future:

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 5:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bring it on...................................just like the last sequester/shutdown..................................ouuuuu, how devastating.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 5:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The last shutdown was in 1995/96 - 28 days total

I remember my Park Service friends talking about it when I started working in 1998.  They hiked, crocheted, baked cookies, and otherwise hung out for 28 days.  And then ended up getting paid for it anyway.  $400 million dollars wasted.  

Sure, why not?  I could use 28 days hangin out with my son.

Plus, "The shutdown has also been cited as having a role in Clinton's successful re-election in 1996." - so we'll get Hillary!   :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 7:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Obama and the left proclaim it's the Repub's fault that a shutdown is imminent for failing to give in on ACA.
The same could just as easily be said about the Dems. Why don't they give in on the ONE issue that's holding things up?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 8:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

MLW

So let me get this straight. Why don't dems give up on something that is already law?
Why don't dems give up on something that repubs have tried to repeal countless times and
has failed every time? You mean why don't dems give up on something that was rooted in
Republican ideas on healthcare?

Give me one example in the history of the US where a political party demanded such a
trade?

Besides for Obama's first term Dems where capitulating to Republicans over and over again


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 8:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 28 2013, 4:48 pm)
QUOTE
Obama and the left proclaim it's the Repub's fault that a shutdown is imminent for failing to give in on ACA.
The same could just as easily be said about the Dems. Why don't they give in on the ONE issue that's holding things up?

Because the ACA passed the House, passed the Senate, was signed into law by the President of the United States, and upheld by the Supreme Court.  It is the law.

The proper way to change the law is to win elections.  

The treasonous way to change laws is to revolt - and shutting down the government is essentially a form of revolt.  Although intended to be temporary, it is still a rejection of and withdrawal from the entire system and unconstitutional.  

I wouldn't attribute such seriousness to the perpetrators, though.  In this case it is mostly sore losers pooping their diapers because their ideas are not good enough to win an election.  Good luck with that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 8:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lets be clear about a few things. Once again the ACA according to the CBO(about as neutral and credible
organization on such matters) is not only deficit neutral but actually helps lower the deficit than it
would be without the ACA therefore the entire pretext Republicans use to justify targeting the ACA is
obviously false.

So why are Republicans targeting the ACA? I think the answer to that question is obvious. Its a good
way to rile up the tea party Republican base and a good way to fund raise. I also sense Republicans
are worried that the ACA would work which would mean long term political problems for Republicans in the
same way SS and medicare were beneficial to Democrats(thus hurting Republicans).


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 8:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 28 2013, 7:48 pm)
QUOTE
Obama and the left proclaim it's the Repub's fault that a shutdown is imminent for failing to give in on ACA.
The same could just as easily be said about the Dems. Why don't they give in on the ONE issue that's holding things up?

Romney promised to repeal the ACA on his first day in office.

The majority of voters told Romney he wasn't going to have a first day in office.

The republicans are guaranteeing the same will happen to Rubio or whoever else that burden with their silly chants.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 10:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Because the ACA passed the House, passed the Senate, was signed into law by the President of the United States, and upheld by the Supreme Court.  It is the law.

So you're saying what they're doing is illegal? How can that be since they've done it... what?... 42X?

QUOTE
The proper way to change the law is to win elections.  

No, the proper way to change laws is through the legislature and that's what they're attempting to do.

QUOTE
The treasonous way to change laws is to revolt - and shutting down the government is essentially a form of revolt.  Although intended to be temporary, it is still a rejection of and withdrawal from the entire system and unconstitutional.

It can't be illegal or unconstitutional or the attempts would have been shut down by the Supreme Court long ago.

I find it odd that you believe attempting to change the law through Congressional legislation to be treasonous.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 10:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree with the opinion that this issue will fracture the Republicans away from the Tea Party crazies.  We will have 2 parties to the right of the Democrats, and neither of them will hold any real power.  National fund raising will be splintered.  Their candidates will eat each other.  The end result will be a reign of Dems and the country benefiting greatly.  Of course, all of this will be after I am long gone, so I will not benefit at all.  You guys will have to recall that i said it would come to pass.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 11:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bring it on.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 11:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 28 2013, 7:11 pm)
QUOTE
I find it odd that you believe attempting to change the law through Congressional legislation to be treasonous.

Show me where the Constitution permits the House of Representatives to shut down government if the Senate & President do not pass & sign their legislation into law.  

Shutting down the government effectively annuls the Constitution, rendering the government unable to uphold the laws already passed.  

This is the circumvention of established law, which to me is indeed a form of treason.  When people stop accepting the outcome of elections & disregard the rule of law, we are at the doorstep of chaos - no different from the Egypts, Somalias, and Syrias out there.  

If that is the outcome you want for our nation, by all means carry on with your deceitful line of logic.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 12:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 28 2013, 7:48 pm)
QUOTE
Obama and the left proclaim it's the Repub's fault that a shutdown is imminent for failing to give in on ACA.
The same could just as easily be said about the Dems. Why don't they give in on the ONE issue that's holding things up?

Duhh!  Because it has been the law of the land for 4 years now, passed by Congress, signed by the President, and test and found Constitutional by the Supreme Court.

It is great program that has been almost 100 years in bringing to legal fruition.

A bunch of crybaby losers who can't win a national election are not going to blackmail the country into backing off badly needed health care reform.

Obama ran on Obamacare, and won, plus actually gained a larger majority in the Senate, and gained a few seats in the House.

This is how a democratic Republic works, not through blackmail and extortion, no matter how popular those tools may be with the Party of NO!

And the American public will not be fooled.  Voting 42 times to repeal Obamacare, with zero possibility of being effective has been well publicized, and the Republicans will take full blame.

None of them hold a candle to Obama on the campaign trail, and he using the bully pulpit better than anyone since FDR and Teddy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 6:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Show me where the Constitution permits the House of Representatives to shut down government if the Senate & President do not pass & sign their legislation into law.

It's the way the system is supposed to work. All 3 must agree. When one branch of the legislature passes a bill, it's not that branch's fault when the others fail to pass it.  

Last night the House passed a measure keeping gov't operating until Dec 15 with a delay in funding Obamacare for 1 year but the Senate probably won't pass it and Obama will veto it. IOW, the House isn't shutting the gov't down. Obama and the Senate are.

Polls show a majority of the people don't want ACA. A small spread but still a majority. The House is reflecting the will of them.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 7:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(orygawn @ Sep. 28 2013, 8:18 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 28 2013, 4:48 pm)
QUOTE
Obama and the left proclaim it's the Repub's fault that a shutdown is imminent for failing to give in on ACA.
The same could just as easily be said about the Dems. Why don't they give in on the ONE issue that's holding things up?

Because the ACA passed the House, passed the Senate, was signed into law by the President of the United States, and upheld by the Supreme Court.  It is the law.

The proper way to change the law is to win elections.  

The treasonous way to change laws is to revolt - and shutting down the government is essentially a form of revolt.  Although intended to be temporary, it is still a rejection of and withdrawal from the entire system and unconstitutional.  

I wouldn't attribute such seriousness to the perpetrators, though.  In this case it is mostly sore losers pooping their diapers because their ideas are not good enough to win an election.  Good luck with that.

And yet the Obama administration simply decides to delay implementation and you don't squawk???

double standard much  :laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 7:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The lying deceitful forces that propel the Republican party towards the self destruction have done everything they could to undermine the very legislation that conservative 'intellectuals' crafted as an answer to the growing concern over a failing health care system and progressive attempts to reform it. Even Michelle Bachman, blathering idiot that she is, can't find a single part of the bill that she disagrees with, even though she hates the entire thing. Piece by piece, Americans approve of the parts of the bill that they understand, and many think that it falls short of an actual solution. If the Republicans cared about America, they would come up with a better plan instead sowing the seeds of discontent for their own effort to do just that.

By all means, shut it down. I am enjoying watching the Republican party tear itself apart as it circles the drain.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 7:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What if the govt shut down and nobody noticed?

After the sequester fiasco, the last thing the dems should be trying to scare people with is the threat of trying to live within an budget....you know....if we had one...like the Constitution says we are supposed to.

And it is strange to see all the outrage over possibly delaying all of the ACA when there was minimal acknowledgement of the piecemeal delay of several parts of it.

because it is unworkable....we are not ready....but we still need all the tax revenue for when we figure it all out. Not our fault....nobody actually read the darn thing.

The other delays were made with no vote and everyone is cool with it,....because their glorious leader did it. But let the legislative branch try to do it correctly and the sky is falling....mass hysteria....constitutional collapse OMG!!!!!

And we have our poor president who was evidently told that there would be no math as POTUS who tries to tell the world that raising the debt ceiling does not mean more spending. While I agree their may be a cart/horse thing going on there....the only way to stop spending more than we have is to NOT raise the debt ceiling.

He should understand that since he previously referred to GWB raising it as a failure in leadership

He proved himself right!


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 9:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The government is still a large part of the economy and the austerity of the last few years is a big drag.  I imagine all financial markets will start going wild the longer this goes on, especially if a bond payment is missed.   The youngest generation of workers do not trust the financial markets to any significant degree, at a time when they should have been investing, ....just hurts any future changes to Social Security or Medicare.  In a few decades due to aging, we will have 1 retiree relying on 2 workers - that's where the real budget fight should be (to be fair, so will China, Mexico, etc..) .

Anyways, it's time.  The Republican official counter-proposal includes O-care's high risk pools and "no denial due to pre-existing conditions", .... which would cause premiums to skyrocket without a mandate (probably leading to universal care as no one would be able to afford health coverage).  Theoretically O-care saves federal budget money and Congress can adjust off of that.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 9:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.nbcnews.com/health....p&pos=1


I wonder if this is what the repubs are afraid of, giving people independence from being stuck in jobs they hate to keep insurance. Allowing people to retire at a reasonable age with freedom? As a TR Republican, I find what's going on today an embarrassment at best.

BTW, they keep saying the American people don't want it? If that was the case, why didn't they vote for Romney?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 12:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

MLW said "The House is reflecting the will of them."

last election more people voted for Democrats than Republicans yet Republicans still retained
the house because of massive gerrymandering in their favor so to say the "The House is
reflecting the will of them." is false.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Looks like it will be happening on Tuesday morning, bright and early.  At least for a little while.

Does anyone else notice how the Party of NO is cherry picking the results of public opinion polls, and tying their whole strategy to their belief that the American public does not want Obamacare??

Very similar to their behavior prior to the November election when they refused to believe that Romney was losing??  Even to the point they melted down on Faux News election results show??  Very funny.

What will they do when the reality of public opinion becomes obvious after the shutdown??  Gonna be fun to watch, but not fun for investors, CEOs and workers who are unable to earn a living.  Hopefully it will be quite short, 10 days or less.  And the whole dynamic might have a very beneficial effect for the debt ceiling action which is needed at that same time.  We'll see.


WASHINGTON — The federal government on Sunday morning barreled toward its first shutdown in 17 years after the Republican-run House, choosing a hard line, voted to attach a one-year delay of President Obama’s health care law and a repeal of a tax to pay for it to legislation to keep the government running.

The votes, just past midnight, followed an often-angry debate, with members shouting one another down on the House floor. Democrats insisted that Republicans refused to accept their losses in 2012, were putting contempt for the president over the good of the country and would bear responsibility for a shutdown. Republicans said they had the public on their side and were acting to protect Americans from a harmful and unpopular law that had already proved a failure.

The House first voted 248-174 to repeal a tax on medical devices, then voted 231-192 to delay the law’s implementation by a year — just days before the uninsured begin enrolling in the law’s insurance exchanges. The delay included a provision favored by social conservatives that would allow employers and health care providers to opt out of mandatory contraception coverage.

But before the House had even voted, Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, declared the House bill dead. Senate Democrats are planning to table the Republican measures when they convene on Monday, leaving the House just hours to pass a stand-alone spending bill free of any measures that undermine the health care law.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013....ml?_r=0


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 6:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well at this point I hope so. The GOP extortionists have got to be broken while the stakes are dimply military families not getting paid rather than still the debt ceiling extension when the whole damn economy would be rashed Inyo the wall.

There's a law some Reoublicans don't  like?  A law that passed the House, passed the Senate, signed by the President and tested in a Supreme Court of the United States case for constitutionality and ruled constitutional?

Well the work the American constitutionally designed system to work for changes. Not this cowardly crap that is something that even shames senators like John McCain.

Hopefully the tea party can take their self imposed leisure and read some:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.toc.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 7:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't think any politician (or political party) will be viewed favorably if a shut down occurs.
It will just highlight their inability to get their jobs done.

But as far as kicking, screaming, and tantrum throwing goes, the R's get the award - again.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2013, 9:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Democratic Caucus controlled Senate sent the Republican controlled House a budget Six Months Ago. Since then the Republicans have sat on their collective thumbs and NOT named members to the standard conference committee to blend the House passed and Senate passed versions.

Six. Months.

This is 100% on the Republican House and that six months of total pouting will be very easy for anyone to understand.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 30 2013, 6:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Poll Date Sample Favor Repeal Oppose Repeal Spread
RCP Average 6/28 - 7/23 -- 51.0 43.3 Favor Repeal +7.7
FOX News 7/21 - 7/23 1017 RV 53 40 Favor Repeal +13
Rasmussen Reports 11/4 - 11/4 1000 LV 50 44 Favor Repeal +6
Quinnipiac 7/1 - 7/8 2722 RV 49 43 Favor Repeal +6
CNN/Opinion Research 6/28 - 7/1 1390 RV 52 46 Favor Repeal +6

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls....47.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 30 2013, 11:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Repeal of Death Panels and Roving Executuon Squads of the Unproductive? Pulling the plug on GranMa?

I would hope so.

Banning pre-existing conditions? Lifetime caps for the seriously ill? Affordable healthcare insurance? Further research on what therapies work? Further research on equality of healthcare issues as raised by the National Institute of Medicine in their reports?

Not at all.

There's a process for adjusting a law, extortion threatening to not pay the military isn't on the list. Getting severely bent because the last 45 attempts to work a minority's way have all failed? Not a reason to close down cancer research.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 30 2013, 12:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The question is not legislating it is funding. The legislating is over, The ACA is the law. Congresses job is to advise and consent.

Not funding a  law is dereliction of duty, and IMO extortion.

We are a representative republic not a true democracy. We do not approve laws and funding by referendum.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 30 2013, 1:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

The legislating isn't over, certainly more needs to be done regarding heathcare in America and that's necessitating further legislation and perhaps adjustments to the PPACA as that was a good first draft but not intended to be or in reality could it ever be THE solution to American's health.
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