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Topic: Has anyone here been shutdown?, Curious............< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 11:41 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have not, and I renewed my health insurance through my job yesterday...............life is good! :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

To an extent: The National Institute of Health isn't accepting grant applications, that's impacting new grants we've prepared for submission (there's over 80 waiting at this institution), current funding running dry would take a few months as I understand it because of the way the money is encumbered.

I've a friend in a defense program and her work with the Air Force (doing a certification of the Osprey for SAR) is going on hold shortly.

Health insurance? My university self-insures and I'm in the medical school.....
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That third glass of scotch is about the only thing that has ever shut me down and even Boner can't take that away.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not I, but my wife, who works for the USDA, is now furloughed.

Congress *could* vote to retroactively pay furloughed federal employees after the shutdown is over, and apparently they have done that in past shutdowns. But there is a lot of talk that that may not happen this time around. So she is presumably on unpaid leave.

Needless to say, this could be a pretty big deal for us if this stretches on very long.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 12:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

On top of the sequestration pay cuts that'd be tough.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Sonics have.

Oh, wait--that's shot down. Never mind.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 12:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Shutdown, Sitdown and Shutup.

The new trinity.

Why don't the republicans just do their job, sign a budget that includes the funding for the ACA, and watch it all fail? They then can claim the proverbial...We told ya so.

Because they know it won't fail, that's why.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 1:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree, they need to let it fail on it’s own……a program just for the poor and sick will be a poor and sick program (sorry Wilbur).

I have not been impacted by the shutdown (it has been pretty tough in the private sector for the past 5 years), and I’m still stuck with horrible overpriced employer “sponsored” health insurance. However, I usually take a fishing trip to the Smoky Mountains in November…hope they don’t shutdown Hazel Creek and Fontana Lake!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 1:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"a program just for the poor and sick"

And yet the PPACA is neither. Funny how that works.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 1:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 02 2013, 10:19 am)
QUOTE
"a program just for the poor and sick"

And yet the PPACA is neither. Funny how that works.

Gosh, it's almost as if markinohio isn't arguing in good faith.

Naaah...that's not possible. What was I thinking?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Only the sick (prohibited exclusion) and poor (subsidies)  benefit, and the cost is shifted to the healthy and non-poor (not just the wealthy).
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 2:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Oct. 02 2013, 10:41 am)
QUOTE
Only the sick (prohibited exclusion) and poor (subsidies)  benefit, and the cost is shifted to the healthy and non-poor (not just the wealthy).

The same thing essentially happened pre-ACA, the costs were just passed on to the insured.

What do you propose that is a better alternative than the ACA?  I hear a lot of criticism of the ACA, but those criticisms are rarely followed up with any viable solutions.

Personally, I would prefer a true single payer program and I hope the ACA is just the first step towards that eventuality.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 3:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 1:22 pm)
QUOTE
Personally, I would prefer a true single payer program and I hope the ACA is just the first step towards that eventuality.
I just read an article at the NY Times on the problems doctors are having with on-the-job burnout. Much of it is attributed to "electronic paperwork" required to file for reimbursement from insurance.

If we had single payer, then the paperwork workload would presumably go down drastically and doctors could get back to doing what they should be doing.

QUOTE
Single-Payer National Health Insurance
Single-payer national health insurance is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private.

Currently, the U.S. health care system is outrageously expensive, yet inadequate. Despite spending more than twice as much as the rest of the industrialized nations ($8,160 per capita), the United States performs poorly in comparison on major health indicators such as life expectancy, infant mortality and immunization rates. Moreover, the other advanced nations provide comprehensive coverage to their entire populations, while the U.S. leaves 51 million completely uninsured and millions more inadequately covered.

The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. As a result, administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars, most of which is waste.
Single-payer financing is the only way to recapture this wasted money. The potential savings on paperwork, more than $400 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to everyone without paying any more than we already do.
"Physicians for a National Health Program – Single-Payer National Health Insurance"
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Single-payer without means-testing gets my vote
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 3:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wife is furloughed...had 4 days furlough this spring as well. Another case of punishing fed employees first.

I'd like to thank the Pres, the Dems and the Reps for me getting to pay less taxes this year...... they are all a bunch of spoiled babies.  They are collecting there pay though, no hurting there.  None of them really care.

Good thing we save a bunch. Less than two years and she is retired, yes!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 4:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:10 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 1:22 pm)
QUOTE
Personally, I would prefer a true single payer program and I hope the ACA is just the first step towards that eventuality.
I just read an article at the NY Times on the problems doctors are having with on-the-job burnout. Much of it is attributed to "electronic paperwork" required to file for reimbursement from insurance...

Glad you brought this up.

My son's pediatrician said this same thing to me last week.  He says he spends roughly 60% of his time on the computer satisfying insurance requirements.  This has contributed to his decision to retire as of next month.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 4:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:47 pm)
QUOTE
Single-payer without means-testing gets my vote

Because that brings us such cost efficiencies in the military procurement arena?

May I introduce you to the singly paid for F-35?, The F-22? Breakable hundreds of millions of dollars Coast Guard Cutters? The flat tire prone, overweight, non-aircondiitoned (for IRAQ!) RPG vulnerable Stryker that costs out at 50 dollars per mile of operation?

Yes, by all means let's all hail single-payer!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 4:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:22 pm)
QUOTE
What do you propose that is a better alternative than the ACA?  I hear a lot of criticism of the ACA, but those criticisms are rarely followed up with any viable solutions.

I read an article recently-can't find it right now, but will link it if I can that proposed a $2500 per person tax credit that could only be used to offset the purchase of health insurance. You don't buy the insurance, no penalty, but no credit either. There were some other parts, including an "assigned pool" for high risk people, but that was the main pillar.
But no bureaucracy.  No "navigators", no special websites that don't work, no IRS imposed penalties. And employers would be relieved of the burden of employee coverage. It did seem like there was a tax spread across ALL employers-even with part time employees-to offset the cost
I'm sure some holes could be shot in it, but it seemed like an elegant alternative.
Maybe we are too far down the road now. I just see a crash and burn coming, and I agree with you on one thing. The ACA is designed to fail so that full single-payer government health care can step in as the only remaining alternative.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 4:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 02 2013, 4:44 pm)
QUOTE

(markinOhio @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:47 pm)
QUOTE
Single-payer without means-testing gets my vote

Because that brings us such cost efficiencies in the military procurement arena?

May I introduce you to the singly paid for F-35?, The F-22? Breakable hundreds of millions of dollars Coast Guard Cutters? The flat tire prone, overweight, non-aircondiitoned (for IRAQ!) RPG vulnerable Stryker that costs out at 50 dollars per mile of operation?

Yes, by all means let's all hail single-payer!

I’m not sure about the validity of the comparison, but I will play along……who has the greatest military on the planet, and what would that imply given your comparison?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 4:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Oct. 02 2013, 4:52 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:22 pm)
QUOTE
What do you propose that is a better alternative than the ACA?  I hear a lot of criticism of the ACA, but those criticisms are rarely followed up with any viable solutions.

I read an article recently-can't find it right now, but will link it if I can that proposed a $2500 per person tax credit that could only be used to offset the purchase of health insurance. You don't buy the insurance, no penalty, but no credit either. There were some other parts, including an "assigned pool" for high risk people, but that was the main pillar.
But no bureaucracy.  No "navigators", no special websites that don't work, no IRS imposed penalties. And employers would be relieved of the burden of employee coverage. It did seem like there was a tax spread across ALL employers-even with part time employees-to offset the cost
I'm sure some holes could be shot in it, but it seemed like an elegant alternative.
Maybe we are too far down the road now. I just see a crash and burn coming, and I agree with you on one thing. The ACA is designed to fail so that full single-payer government health care can step in as the only remaining alternative.

And who pays the bills for those with no insurance who get injured or sick?

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 5:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The very same individuals that pay to subsidize coverage under the ACA (taxpayers/consumers).
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 5:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So keep everything the same? But my employer will no longer pay towards my premiums but I get a $2500 credit? Looks like I'm short about 6 grand, cause I doubt my employer will pass that savings on to me.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 5:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Oct. 02 2013, 1:52 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:22 pm)
QUOTE
What do you propose that is a better alternative than the ACA?  I hear a lot of criticism of the ACA, but those criticisms are rarely followed up with any viable solutions.

I read an article recently-can't find it right now, but will link it if I can that proposed a $2500 per person tax credit that could only be used to offset the purchase of health insurance. You don't buy the insurance, no penalty, but no credit either. There were some other parts, including an "assigned pool" for high risk people, but that was the main pillar.
But no bureaucracy.  No "navigators", no special websites that don't work, no IRS imposed penalties. And employers would be relieved of the burden of employee coverage. It did seem like there was a tax spread across ALL employers-even with part time employees-to offset the cost
I'm sure some holes could be shot in it, but it seemed like an elegant alternative.
Maybe we are too far down the road now. I just see a crash and burn coming, and I agree with you on one thing. The ACA is designed to fail so that full single-payer government health care can step in as the only remaining alternative.

I'm open-minded Buzzards.  I'm not not necessarily enamored with the ACA but I see it as a step in the right direction.  

As far as a tax credit, that's fine for those who the ability to benefit from it.  But I don't see how it would address the issue of caring for those who can't afford insurance and can't afford to pay for treatment.  Like my dad always said: You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

And I don't see the ACA as "designed to fail", Romneycare seems to be working quite well in Massachusetts.  That aside, I would welcome the idea of a true single-payer system.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 5:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Oct. 02 2013, 2:07 pm)
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The very same individuals that pay to subsidize coverage under the ACA (taxpayers/consumers).

Which is essentially the same it has always been.  It's just been done in the most expensive and convoluted way imaginable.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 5:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Oct. 02 2013, 1:55 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 02 2013, 4:44 pm)
QUOTE

(markinOhio @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:47 pm)
QUOTE
Single-payer without means-testing gets my vote

Because that brings us such cost efficiencies in the military procurement arena?

May I introduce you to the singly paid for F-35?, The F-22? Breakable hundreds of millions of dollars Coast Guard Cutters? The flat tire prone, overweight, non-aircondiitoned (for IRAQ!) RPG vulnerable Stryker that costs out at 50 dollars per mile of operation?

Yes, by all means let's all hail single-payer!

I’m not sure about the validity of the comparison, but I will play along……who has the greatest military on the planet, and what would that imply given your comparison?

That the potlatch of wasting as much as possible isn't being matched by the rest of the world? And if you throw enough money at a wall some percentage will stick and do some good? And we throw more than the entire rest of the planet. The issue being "cost efficiencies" right? The nation being sort of out of money and all and medial expenditures make even the DoD look small change.

In the land of hundred thousand dollar coffee makers the medical world pales in comparison: due, in part I would suggest, to competition. Competition which would not exist in single-payer.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 5:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 2:11 pm)
QUOTE

(buzzards @ Oct. 02 2013, 1:52 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:22 pm)
QUOTE
What do you propose that is a better alternative than the ACA?  I hear a lot of criticism of the ACA, but those criticisms are rarely followed up with any viable solutions.

I read an article recently-can't find it right now, but will link it if I can that proposed a $2500 per person tax credit that could only be used to offset the purchase of health insurance. You don't buy the insurance, no penalty, but no credit either. There were some other parts, including an "assigned pool" for high risk people, but that was the main pillar.
But no bureaucracy.  No "navigators", no special websites that don't work, no IRS imposed penalties. And employers would be relieved of the burden of employee coverage. It did seem like there was a tax spread across ALL employers-even with part time employees-to offset the cost
I'm sure some holes could be shot in it, but it seemed like an elegant alternative.
Maybe we are too far down the road now. I just see a crash and burn coming, and I agree with you on one thing. The ACA is designed to fail so that full single-payer government health care can step in as the only remaining alternative.

I'm open-minded Buzzards.  I'm not not necessarily enamored with the ACA but I see it as a step in the right direction.  

As far as a tax credit, that's fine for those who the ability to benefit from it.  But I don't see how it would address the issue of caring for those who can't afford insurance and can't afford to pay for treatment.  Like my dad always said: You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

And I don't see the ACA as "designed to fail", Romneycare seems to be working quite well in Massachusetts.  That aside, I would welcome the idea of a true single-payer system.

Recently heard that RomneyCare in Mass. has gotten to covering 98% of the entire population. That's astounding.

Whole lot of personal responsibility up there....
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 6:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

First thing on 10/1, I had been looking at sending in for a permit for the Grand Canyon the day before, since the first is a big day, but the sight was down as I tried to finish the process.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 6:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Oct. 02 2013, 1:52 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Oct. 02 2013, 12:22 pm)
QUOTE
What do you propose that is a better alternative than the ACA?  I hear a lot of criticism of the ACA, but those criticisms are rarely followed up with any viable solutions.

I read an article recently-can't find it right now, but will link it if I can that proposed a $2500 per person tax credit that could only be used to offset the purchase of health insurance. You don't buy the insurance, no penalty, but no credit either. There were some other parts, including an "assigned pool" for high risk people, but that was the main pillar.
But no bureaucracy.  No "navigators", no special websites that don't work, no IRS imposed penalties. And employers would be relieved of the burden of employee coverage. It did seem like there was a tax spread across ALL employers-even with part time employees-to offset the cost
I'm sure some holes could be shot in it, but it seemed like an elegant alternative.

Well, here are some holes: it does nothing whatsoever to hold down costs (healthcare or insurance), and could actual fuel further inflation; it doesn't do much for anyone who can't afford the differential between $2500 and the cost of insurance; a separate high risk pool is either absolutely guaranteed to fail, or it becomes a massive money sink; and it doesn't do anything to change the reality that the (pre-ACA) health insurance "market" isn't a functioning market at all. You want to use a band-aid to treat gangrene, then that approach is just peachy.

As for the navigators and the websites you so glibly deride, those are both essential to addressing one of the fundamental market failures of the old system: the lack of useful information that would allow consumers to make informed choices among competitors.

QUOTE
Maybe we are too far down the road now. I just see a crash and burn coming, and I agree with you on one thing. The ACA is designed to fail so that full single-payer government health care can step in as the only remaining alternative.

"Designed to fail" seems to be the fashionable GOP talking point these days; I see it coming up wherever people are talking about how terrible the PPACA is. I don't think there's much value in treating it as a serious comment, so I'll just say this: there's always a possibility it'll fail (but I don't think it will); aspects of it will probably turn out not to work as well as planned, and that can be fixed through the legislative process (provided we're not saddled with a party determined to prevent any such improvements); but I can tell you absolutely and unequivocally that it was not designed to fail. It may not be the perfect system, but the people who hashed it out were genuinely trying to come up with workable solutions to real-world problems.

In other words, they weren't today's Republicans.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 10:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yup.  

Since my days off are Tues/Wed so far I haven't lost any hours.  But will starting tomorrow.  But if there is a fire (high potential since Santa Ana winds are predicted Thurs/Sat), then I'll be called in and offered essential duties as a PIO.  Who knows when I'd get paid for doing so, though.

One of my coworkers, who is deemed essential since he works as an initial attack dispatcher, was on paternity leave, having just been gifted with a son a few days ago (one they tried long and hard for).  He was called and said your leave is now cancelled, so you can stay home but won't be paid leave (that he earned and saved up over the course of his career).  Or you can come in and work and possibly get paid at some later date.    He had a hard choice to make - stay home and help his wife recover from C-section (she can't get out of bed by herself - been there done that!) and get to know his newborn son?  Or go to work and earn a paycheck (probably, eventually) that will help keep a roof over their heads.  

Oh, and prior to being a dispatcher, he was a hot shot and fire engine captain for many years.  Putting his life on the line to save lives and property.  He hurt his knee on the job, and never recovered enough to fight fire again, so he is now a dispatcher.  And a great one, because of his firefighting experience.

I really hope those kinds of stories get to those idiots who put us in this situation.  We are low- to middle-class hard working Americans who take pride in doing our public service (and emergency service) jobs that we were hired to do.  A lot of thanks we're getting :p


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 02 2013, 11:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

For those that have been shut down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42XjjsMfTFI


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