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Topic: States To Be Allowed To Pay To Reopen, Some National Parks During Government Sh< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 4:28 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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WASHINGTON -- WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration said Thursday it will allow states to use their own money to reopen some national parks that have been closed because of the government shutdown.

Governors in at least four states have asked for authority to reopen national parks within their borders because of the economic impacts caused by the park closures.

Interior Secretary Sally Jewell said the government will consider offers to pay for park operations, but will not surrender control of national parks to the states.

Utah Gov. Gary Herbert has said his state has resources that could be used to operate the parks if federal funding is not available. Governors of South Dakota, Arizona and Colorado have made similar requests.

October is a peak month for tourism in many parts of the West.

Herbert said in a letter Tuesday to President Barack Obama that the shutdown of national parks has been "devastating" to individuals and businesses that rely on park operations for their livelihood. Utah is home to five national parks, including Zion, Bryce and Arches, which attract visitors from around the world.

"The current federally mandated closure is decimating the bottom line of bed-and-breakfast business owners and operators in Torrey (Utah), outfitters at Bryce Canyon City and restaurant owners in Moab," Herbert wrote.

He estimated the economic impact of the federal government shutdown on Utah at about $100 million.

Blake Androff, a spokesman for Jewell, said the Interior Department will consider agreements with governors who "indicate an interest and ability to fully fund National Park Service personnel to re-open national parks in their states."

Decisions about which parks to reopen and for how long have not been made, Androff said.

Figures compiled by a coalition of retired park service workers indicate that some 700,000 people a day would have been visiting the parks and that the surrounding areas are losing $76 million in visitor spending per day.

The park service said it is losing $450,000 per day in revenue from entrance fees and other in-park expenditures, such as campground fees and boat rentals.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013....19.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 4:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just another Republican pipe dream.

States don't have the cash to pay for Federal operation of the National Parks.

Well, maybe South Dakota does, right now, the point is still valid.  The States have much less available cash for emergencies that the Feds do.  

Why do you think that FEMA was created??

I am guessing that most states would be belly up in less than a month of funding their National Parks.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Besides, how are we going to have small government if states just step in and take over the Federal excesses??

LOL


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 4:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So National parks are excesses.........?

Feds tell Utah it will accept state money to open national parks

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib....tml.csp
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 5:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm wondering if the feds will allow the states to keep the entrance fees and any applied federal taxes since the states are doing the work.

And if the entrance fees do go to the states, how will it be split when an NP is "shared" like GSMNP or YNP?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 5:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The income has to go to the Feds.  Federal statutes and regulations.

The legal wrangling to pay that money to the states would be a major gordian knot.

And since government lawyers aren't "essential", the wrangling could not be done until after the Shutstorm is over!  Catch 22.

This whole thing is just media masturbation while they wait for the Republicans to cave.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 5:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's the small government those western Republican governors wanted so what's the beef?

#RealityBites
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 10:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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The income has to go to the Feds

So the states will pay but the feds take the money..

How about the states provide law enforcement and allow free access?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 10 2013, 11:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 10 2013, 7:48 pm)
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The income has to go to the Feds

So the states will pay but the feds take the money..

How about the states provide law enforcement and allow free access?

Parks are about far more than law enforcement. In fact about the only federal staff still on duty are the law enforcement staff.

The states want to step up then they need to step up all the way.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 12:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

wow.......first everyone is complaining about the Parks closing, then everyone complains about states wanting to use there money to open them.....no one is ever happy.  It's Arizona, Colorado, S Dakota and Utah so far.  I applaud them.  Don't like it stay away....simple.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 12:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's just noise, nothing practical and helpful to hikers and travelers is going to happen.

Operating the parks is a hugely complex task, and it entails the possibility of great liability if someone does it wrong.  So, the Interior Dept. will not allow any non-Federal personnel to operate the Parks until they have been legally asssured that the States will hold them harmless from any claims for harm or loss of value.

Do you really think that can be done before Congress stops the Shutstorm??

If the House just passes a clean CR the Parks can begin opening tomorrow.

Send them a message!


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 7:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The states asked, the federal govt said "yes", but last night I read now the states are put off from the cost.  The NP's have all those interpretive centers, ADA compliant structures, etc.... which is why the windshield tourists drive to go there.  Remember the states lobbied their representatives and Senators to build all these parks up with a massive tourist infrastructure.  Looks like Edward Abbey is getting the last laugh.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 8:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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and it entails the possibility of great liability if someone does it wrong.  So, the Interior Dept. will not allow any non-Federal personnel to operate the Parks until they have been legally asssured that the States will hold them harmless from any claims for harm or loss of value

True. There are always some tourons who believe Parks to be open air petting zoos and then sue because "No one told me grizzlies weren't Teddy Bears!".

OTOH, Darwin is still an employee in every Park and idiots who try to pet bears or ride bison or try swimming above a waterfall are voluntarily removing their genes from the pool and no one else should be legally liable.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 9:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Business losing lively hood? Utah losing 100 million? All over a federal entity? I thought only private companies and rich people create commerce? Say it ain't so A-Rod
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's progressed a lot faster than I would have guessed: Utah at least seems to have finalized a deal for $1.67 million for about ten days for the 5 national parks within their borders:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news....rs?lite

"Utah has struck a deal with Department of the Interior to reopen eight of the state’s National Parks and monuments as other states that depend heavily on the tourism dollars generated by the outdoor attractions considered similar measures amid the ongoing government shutdown.
The state agreed to pay $1.67 million to get people back in the parks for up to 10 days, with any leftover funds to be returned if lawmakers in Washington bring the budget impasse to a resolution, according to Thursday release from Gov. Gary Herbert’s office..."

From the governor's press release:
"Under the terms of the deal, the Interior Department will notify site-specific personnel to return to work as soon as the State of Utah wires the money. Secretary Jewell indicated to the Governor that within 24 hours of receiving wired funds, the national sites could be open and fully operational.  At the time of this release, Utah expects parks to begin re-opening tomorrow and become fully operational by Saturday.

Utah's initial funding for the agreement will come from existing resources within the Division of State Parks of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR).  Further action may be warranted by the Utah State Legislature in a special session expected for next Wednesday, October 16.  The Governor's Office continues to work closely with legislative leaders to make DNR whole and identify optimal solutions.  If the government shutdown continues beyond 10 days, Utah can make additional payments to keep the national parks and monuments open."
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 4:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Parks are important for private businesses and local economies?  Who knew?

Personally I think this is nutso makeshift temporary solution - it's already confusing for the public to figure out what's open or not.  And yay for 5 NP's and their rangers and localities, but boo for the 396 others.  Boo for the neighboring national forests and their employees.  The entire government needs to re-open - not just bits and pieces.

And, yeah, for all those folks that think a park is just some big petting zoo and easy for some other entity to take a hold of and start managing within a couple of days, lol lol lol


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 5:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm also wondering about the rangers that work in multiple parks - when I was at NABR my supervisor also worked at HOVE - so how does that work? I think they need to end the shutdown and open all the parks again - this piecemeal approach is crap

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 5:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

States rights baby! We don't need no damn federal gubbmint!

All state rights advocates hate the federal government until they need money from it.

Same with those who bash lawyers. Until they actually need one.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2013, 6:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bbobb169 @ Oct. 10 2013, 10:22 pm)
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wow.......first everyone is complaining about the Parks closing, then everyone complains about states wanting to use there money to open them.....no one is ever happy.  It's Arizona, Colorado, S Dakota and Utah so far.  I applaud them.  Don't like it stay away....simple.

Color me skeptical, but I think this is 90% political publicity stunt.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2013, 12:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 10 2013, 4:38 pm)
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Just another Republican pipe dream.

States don't have the cash to pay for Federal operation of the National Parks.

Well, maybe South Dakota does, right now, the point is still valid.  The States have much less available cash for emergencies that the Feds do.  

Why do you think that FEMA was created??

I am guessing that most states would be belly up in less than a month of funding their National Parks.

I love it.  It looks like canyonland a NATIONAL PARK will be opening up at 8:00am tomorrow morning.  Not a pipe dream after all.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2013, 2:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 10 2013, 4:38 pm)
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Just another Republican pipe dream.

States don't have the cash to pay for Federal operation of the National Parks.

Well, maybe South Dakota does, right now, the point is still valid.  The States have much less available cash for emergencies that the Feds do.  

Why do you think that FEMA was created??

I am guessing that most states would be belly up in less than a month of funding their National Parks.

You clearly don't know about Utah's ability to pay for several months of operations of the National Parks and other federal lands in Utah using their budget surplus.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2013, 2:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tarol @ Oct. 11 2013, 4:30 pm)
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Parks are important for private businesses and local economies?  Who knew?

Personally I think this is nutso makeshift temporary solution - it's already confusing for the public to figure out what's open or not.  And yay for 5 NP's and their rangers and localities, but boo for the 396 others.  Boo for the neighboring national forests and their employees.  The entire government needs to re-open - not just bits and pieces.

And, yeah, for all those folks that think a park is just some big petting zoo and easy for some other entity to take a hold of and start managing within a couple of days, lol lol lol

You clearly misunderstand how this works.  The states don't "take over"  managment and operations of the parks.  They "take over" FUNDING the management and operations of those parks using the same federal organizations and employees that managed and operated them before.

lol lol lol indeed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2013, 12:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, very true.  

And then the states that have to put up the cash, for just 10 days, upfront don't get a dime of the direct income taken in at the Parks.  And they don't have a voice in how the Park personnel operate the Parks with the state money.  A brilliant scheme if I ever heard one.

They have to go and beg Congress for special legislation to get reimbursed after the Shutstorm is over.  That will be another lovely political shootout a few months down the road to fuel the 2014 elections.

Surely the Tea Hatters will be dead set against paying out more money to the states without commensurate tax cut to not pay for it, won't they?? LOL

Of course, if the economy goes into recession next month, as seems pretty likely, reimubursement for a pittance in National Parks operation will be nothing of interest on the Congressional soap opera stage.

What a country!


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2013, 12:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Totally awesome, the state that complains the most about federal land in their state is ready to pony up some cash to keep their economy from taking a big hit. Seems to me like this is a good time to reevaluate how much federal money flows to Utah, since they seem to derive so much from federal holdings there.

Now, what can we cut from all of those federal dollars we waste in Texas.


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(KenV @ Oct. 12 2013, 12:05 am)
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(tarol @ Oct. 11 2013, 4:30 pm)
QUOTE
Parks are important for private businesses and local economies?  Who knew?

Personally I think this is nutso makeshift temporary solution - it's already confusing for the public to figure out what's open or not.  And yay for 5 NP's and their rangers and localities, but boo for the 396 others.  Boo for the neighboring national forests and their employees.  The entire government needs to re-open - not just bits and pieces.

And, yeah, for all those folks that think a park is just some big petting zoo and easy for some other entity to take a hold of and start managing within a couple of days, lol lol lol

You clearly misunderstand how this works.  The states don't "take over"  managment and operations of the parks.  They "take over" FUNDING the management and operations of those parks using the same federal organizations and employees that managed and operated them before.

lol lol lol indeed.

Ken,

There have been other offers of local govs. to perform services instead of directly funding the feds. There was another thread on it.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news....s-roads

and of course threats of takeover:

http://www.npr.org/blogs....k-areas
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