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Topic: A New Front in the Abortion War< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 12:44 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A look at real life abortion issues, for the people who have to deal with right wing interference in their most intimate and painful decisions.

They love them before they are born, and ignore them, or deny them, after they are born, since the parents who desperatley did not want the unborn will surely take perfect care of the those unwanted after they are born, neh?

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — On their way to the ultrasound exam, Abbey and Kyle Sanders stopped at Babies"R"Us. They picked out a navy sundress with white flowers for a girl, navy shorts with white stripes for a boy. Close friends were invited over for a "gender reveal" party the next day. Abbey was nearly 20 weeks pregnant.

"It's a little girl," the ultrasound technician said. Abbey started crying. "You're having a daughter!" she said to Kyle. Abbey texted her mother: healthy baby girl. Kyle noticed that the poker-faced technician didn't offer any reassurance about the baby's health.

The doctor walked in. "I'm very concerned," he said, and Abbey's tears turned to sobs. He referred the couple to a high-risk fetal-medicine specialist, who did a more sophisticated ultrasound and found that the fetus's brain was failing to divide and was growing outside the skull, a chamber was missing from the heart, and there was a problem with the kidneys.

"Is there any chance of the baby surviving?" asked Kyle, an Air Force pilot. "No. This baby will not survive to term" was the response.

The newlyweds were devastated. The baby's kicks now felt like a torturous reminder that they would never be parents to this child. She was dying. The right thing to do, the moral thing to do, Abbey and Kyle believed, was to terminate the pregnancy. A suction abortion this late in pregnancy could have damaged 29-year-old Abbey's cervix, so four days after the second ultrasound, a doctor injected the baby with a heart-stopping drug.

And then they waited. For nine days, they barely left the house. Abbey spent most of the time curled up in bed. She felt what she thought were contractions and went to the hospital, but was told to come back the following day. Ten days after the injection, Abbey checked into the maternity ward. She was barely showing, unlike all the other fully distended mothers around her.

She was given a drug to accelerate the contractions and an epidural for the pain during labor. In contrast to the cries she and Kyle heard down the hall, their stillborn baby was silent. They held the 8-ounce infant wrapped in a pink blanket and cried. They were asked if they wanted a picture or handprint. No, thank you, they said, heading home to grieve.

Her name was Amelia. The date was August 3, 2012.

               ....................................

Among the disorders that can go undetected until 20 weeks or afterward, according to the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, are anencephaly, a fatal condition in which the brain is missing; renal agenesis, in which missing kidneys also cause death before or shortly after birth; limb-body wall complex, in which the organs are outside the body cavity; hydrocephaly, in which excessive fluid accumulates within the brain; and other severe brain and heart defects.

To abortion opponents like Cox, exceptions for women such as Abbey Sanders who resort to a late-term abortion because of unforeseen complications are not justified. "The difficulty with fetal abnormalities is that there's a slippery slope for the medical community and parents," he said. "Is Down syndrome an abnormality? Spina bifida? Doesn't that create a search-and-destroy system where only the perfect children get to be born, and the imperfect babies are aborted?"

                      ..................................

The 20-week abortion ban that passed the House in June did not include an exception for fetal abnormalities. Three months later, the House voted to slash $40 billion over the next decade from the food-stamp program; nearly half of the program's recipients are children.

"However you feel about abortion, you can anticipate higher costs if you prevent it, and I don't think states are prepared to deal with that," says Dean Baker, cofounder of the nonpartisan Center for Economic and Policy Research. "If these states aren't prepared to increase funding for Medicaid and for children with disabilities, someone is going to suffer."


http://www.theatlantic.com/politic....7

Read the whole article, it is worth the time spent.  Note the fact that the vast majority of abortions are done in the first 8 weeks, before any detection of fetal abnormalities is possible.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Heck yes, let's get to destroying those younguns', didn't want them anyway and can't afford them either.............and besides, I really did love Billy Bob when I had sex whiff him, he told me he loved me too, has any of y'all seen Billy Bob lately, I think I'm late..............it's Billy Bob's fault, but I stiff love him.




P.S. - To all, I used a white trash southern name for the fella and accentuated the language as white trash also, so as not to hurt some feelings and then they would go all racist calling, and beside, it would make it more believable to the "others".


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 5:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Is Billy Bob a man or a woman?

Does it matter?

No abortions period! We need future soldiers by gum!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 6:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Is Billy Bob a man or a woman?

Does it matter?


Not to Jimmy, any port in a storm.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 6:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Kind of ironic, here this couple wants a baby desperately, and you and others like you celebrate when others take a perfectly healthy normal baby and throw it in the garbage.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 6:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Oct. 21 2013, 6:37 pm)
QUOTE
Kind of ironic, here this couple wants a baby desperately, and you and others like you celebrate when others take a perfectly healthy normal baby and throw it in the garbage.

I can tell you from experience, no one celebrates an abortion.  As a young college male during the run up prior to RvW, I had several friends who had to travel long distances to have an abortion, and the discussions surrounding that choice were very emotional for all concerned.

Even into my late 20's and early 30's, I was privy to some couples making that decision, and none of them did so lightly.  Celebrating an abortion is just not going to happen, even when all parties are 100% on board.

This post was about how the attack on the Woman's Right to Choose has reduced the legal time period to 20 weeks, when some medical factors cannot be discovered until later.  Those who would have us live in a Theocracy are doing everything they can to deprive any couple from making a choice that is best for them, and is of no concern to anyone else.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 6:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Oct. 21 2013, 6:37 pm)
QUOTE
Kind of ironic, here this couple wants a baby desperately, and you and others like you celebrate when others take a perfectly healthy normal baby and throw it in the garbage.

Have you ever seen anyone "celebrate" having to make the choice to have an abortion??

Why would you think that anyone would, or could, do that??

Typical authoritarian world view to attribute such feelings to other human beings, especially about a subject that is so emotionally charged, and the actual feelings of the woman or the couple making such a choice are as far from celebration as it is possible to be.

Finding out that you are not pregnant, when you don't want to be pregnant, now that is an occasion for celebration!


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 8:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 21 2013, 6:23 pm)
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Is Billy Bob a man or a woman?

Does it matter?


Not to Jimmy, any port in a storm.

Wanna go camping? :cool:

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 9:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Oct. 21 2013, 4:48 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Oct. 21 2013, 6:37 pm)
QUOTE
Kind of ironic, here this couple wants a baby desperately, and you and others like you celebrate when others take a perfectly healthy normal baby and throw it in the garbage.

[color=maroon]I can tell you from experience, no one celebrates an abortion.  As a young college male during the run up prior to RvW, I had several friends who had to travel long distances to have an abortion, and the discussions surrounding that choice were very emotional for all concerned.

Even into my late 20's and early 30's, I was privy to some couples making that decision, and none of them did so lightly.  Celebrating an abortion is just not going to happen, even when all parties are 100% on board.

Then you should get to know wwwest.  He recently posted an article that people dressed as the statue of liberty are advertising abortions outside of strip malls in California, and he was quite happy about it.

Just think, you could get an abortion on your way to Sonic after work.  No long trip necessary.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 10:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Was he happy about people needing abortions, or was he happy to see people advertising abortion providers?  You know, like happy to see someone not being intimidated by the consent assault on a woman's right to choose?  Celebrating the easy access to a constitutional right is so much different than celebrating the actual processing of that right.  

BTW, NARAL uses a portion of the profile of Lady Liberty as their avatar.  I do not see people dressed as her as a bad thing.




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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2013, 11:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My interpretation...he was happy that it was as easy to get an abortion in California as it was to pick up a burrito at the Taco John's Drive Thru
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 6:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Abortions at any time due to physical defects that will cause misery and suffering after birth are one thing. Abortion as a means of birth control is something else entirely.

I can't understand the mindset of those who oppose killing an adult who has unquestionably committed some horrendous crime but support killing a healthy fetus that has done absolutely nothing objectionable to anyone except come into existence.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 8:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Oct. 21 2013, 11:07 pm)
QUOTE
My interpretation...he was happy that it was as easy to get an abortion in California as it was to pick up a burrito at the Taco John's Drive Thru

I wish it was that easy to get birth control, and as cheap.  Maybe there would be less need for abortions.  I also wish there were abortion providers in every town, just as there are Drs and Dentists.  Just because I want a better availability for those women who want one, doesn't mean I am celebrating them like holidays.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 8:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 22 2013, 6:44 am)
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Abortions at any time due to physical defects that will cause misery and suffering after birth are one thing. Abortion as a means of birth control is something else entirely.

I can't understand the mindset of those who oppose killing an adult who has unquestionably committed some horrendous crime but support killing a healthy fetus that has done absolutely nothing objectionable to anyone except come into existence.

People exercise their own judgement on many issues.  Not wanting to bring a child into this world may be a choice for many reasons.  We live in a society that has determined it is the woman's choice to bear a child, or not.  All that is left to us is to accept it and move on, or work within the system to change the mindset.  

If one form of BC fails, and the woman still doesn't want a child, is adopting out supposed to be her only choice?  Are there enough adoptive homes to provide for them?  


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 11:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Oct. 21 2013, 6:37 pm)
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Kind of ironic, here this couple wants a baby desperately, and you and others like you celebrate when others take a perfectly healthy normal baby and throw it in the garbage.

Even if it is only because it is the wrong gender

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Zygotes, embryos and fetuses are not 'babies' They are prospective babies, just as an acorn is a prospective oak tree.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 12:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is truly amazing how those who claim to champion freedom, liberty, and personal reponsibility will do anything they can think of to remove the freedom, liberty and personal reponsibility of women who choose to end an unwanted pregnancy.

And, at the same time make huge cuts in the funds for food for needy children.

The authoritarian human bean is a highly contradictory personality, IMO.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 1:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Oct. 22 2013, 11:32 am)
QUOTE
Zygotes, embryos and fetuses are not 'babies' They are prospective babies, just as an acorn is a prospective oak tree.

Oh man.............is there anything more that needs to be said than this libbie make myself feel better afterwards comment.

Fetus = acorn..............................funny thing is, I don't remember seeing oak trees in line or in a waiting room for their next session with a psychologist after the event. But then again, acorns are just gobbled-up by squirrels and there is really no mess afterwards, so just toss those youngins' to the trash............or should I have said, Zygotes, embryos and fetuses.


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(tamarac @ Oct. 22 2013, 9:32 am)
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Zygotes, embryos and fetuses are not 'babies' They are prospective babies, just as an acorn is a prospective oak tree.

So until that fetus takes its first breath outside mom, it's a disposable thing.... wow.

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(wwwest @ Oct. 22 2013, 10:32 am)
QUOTE
It is truly amazing how those who claim to champion freedom, liberty, and personal reponsibility will do anything they can think of to remove the freedom, liberty and personal reponsibility of women who choose to end an unwanted pregnancy.

And, at the same time make huge cuts in the funds for food for needy children.

The authoritarian human bean is a highly contradictory personality, IMO.

I really doubt that unborn baby was given the choice between living or dying.

Slaughtering unborn babies is an acceptable option while executing an adult who has slaughtered breathing innocents is not.

Very strange.


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(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 22 2013, 9:58 pm)
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I really doubt that unborn baby was given the choice between living or dying.

Yeah, people who haven't born yet, generally don't have a lot of choices. Funny how that works. Even stranger, people who have died don't get to make a lot choices either.  Go figure.
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(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 22 2013, 9:53 pm)
QUOTE

(tamarac @ Oct. 22 2013, 9:32 am)
QUOTE
Zygotes, embryos and fetuses are not 'babies' They are prospective babies, just as an acorn is a prospective oak tree.

So until that fetus takes its first breath outside mom, it's a disposable thing.... wow.

There's that black and white thinking again. Just like a child, or the learning disabled, or the mentally ill.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 10:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Always the strawman, never the actual facts of the issue.

Of course, when one is on that side of the argument, what other choice do you have??


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 6:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Facts?
Fact: A fetus/unborn baby has done nothing to offend or harm anyone.
Short of cases of rape and a few other exceptions like those in the OP, it shouldn't be needed.

I have yet to see a valid argument for abortion as a form of birth control. Don't want to get pregnant? Simple. Don't have sex.


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(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 23 2013, 5:59 am)
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Facts?
Fact: A fetus/unborn baby has done nothing to offend or harm anyone.
Short of cases of rape and a few other exceptions like those in the OP, it shouldn't be needed.

I have yet to see a valid argument for abortion as a form of birth control. Don't want to get pregnant? Simple. Don't have sex.

Why do you blame the fetus for the 'rape'?

Besides, in the real world, a woman only has to carry the baby to term....go to the hospital, have the baby, and then just tell the doctor she is giving up the child and walk out the door.

Then the baby becomes a ward of the state and your tax money gets to support the child.

Congrats! Youre a daddy!


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(wwwest @ Oct. 22 2013, 12:32 pm)
QUOTE
It is truly amazing how those who claim to champion freedom, liberty, and personal reponsibility will do anything they can think of to remove the freedom, liberty and personal reponsibility of women who choose to end an unwanted pregnancy.

And, at the same time make huge cuts in the funds for food for needy children.

The authoritarian human bean is a highly contradictory personality, IMO.

By golly you are right

And should a mother be able to go ahead and kill them up until age 18 if they become unwanted???

Because they can get far more annoying once they leave the uterus

Come on....you know you are grasping when you have to play the "starve the children" card

Or maybe you should be able to kill a child sinply because you wanted a boy and got a girl

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm....he-west

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm....ashed-2

But heh....I get it....you bought all that blue stuff and then you got a girl....just bad luck....kill this one and try again

And please tell me....do these women have a right to choose?

http://hotair.com/greenro....-margin

Probably not....since you have decided that they are choosing wrong  :laugh:

I cannot fathom the outrage that (most)people can feel over someone that drowns puppies while condoning the death of unborn children because they are inconvenient or unwanted


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(BillBab @ Oct. 23 2013, 4:24 am)
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Or maybe you should be able to kill a child sinply because you wanted a boy and got a girl

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm....he-west

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm....ashed-2

As I said in the other thread: the cure for societal misogyny is not more misogyny; the cure is full equality and opportunity for women, in fact as in law.

The misogyny you display in your comments on abortion? That's actually part of the problem.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 12:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The problem would pretty much disappear of all single, and cheating, men who do not want to be responsible for a child, every time they have sex, would simply refuse to have sex with those "loose", careless, irresponsible women.

If men exercised just a tiny bit of personal responsibility, there would be no unwanted pregnancy!

Easy, peasy.  Check with your local Catholic priest before adopting this policy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 1:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 23 2013, 9:58 am)
QUOTE
The problem would pretty much disappear of all single, and cheating, men who do not want to be responsible for a child, every time they have sex, would simply refuse to have sex with those "loose", careless, irresponsible women.

If men exercised just a tiny bit of personal responsibility, there would be no unwanted pregnancy!

Easy, peasy.  Check with your local Catholic priest before adopting this policy.

+1

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Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
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