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Topic: Same sex marriage now legal in 16 states< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2013, 5:49 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

With Hawaii voting on it this week, and Illinois getting on board earlier, it seems to me that all citizens will be able to marry the person of their choice all across our land, soon.

Marijuana personal consumption now legal in 5.  Good things to my way of thinking.  Once, I wondered which would be nationally accepted first, but the USSC striking down parts of DOMA seem to have removed all doubt there.  

Personal freedoms with little or no impact on others.  Who would have guessed the Party of reduced government would be the one resisting these freedoms.  I am hoping the next 20 years are as Progressive as I have dreamed.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2013, 7:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Dogs and Cats, Sleeping Together  "  It's the end of the world !

Next thing you know, Jack Morman's will be petitioning for legal Polygamy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2013, 7:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The remaining 34 will overcome their discriminatory leanings over time.  
Some states will be have to be dragged kicking and screaming but they'll all eventually get there.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2013, 8:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Nov. 09 2013, 5:49 pm)
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 ...... Who would have guessed the Party of reduced government would be the one resisting these freedoms....  

Well....there's some valid slippery-slope logic:

If you let SOME marry same-sex, then before you know it, EVERYBODY would want to marry same-sex....then, where would the kids come from to finance social security???.

(Plus, everybody knows that same-sex couples don't keep their lawns mowed very well).


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2013, 8:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Old Frank
QUOTE
(Plus, everybody knows that same-sex couples don't keep their lawns mowed very well).


ummmmmmmmmmm...Maybe there is a future in a "rent-a-hubby" business - to mow the yard, clean the gutters, etc.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2013, 9:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Nov. 09 2013, 6:18 pm)
QUOTE
everybody knows that same-sex couples don't keep their lawns mowed very well

If that's what you're focusing on, the 20- 40 same sex couples I know are also the most fastidious gardeners in their HOA's  ! Both on their lawns and on themselves.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 8:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Nov. 09 2013, 7:18 pm)
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(ol-zeke @ Nov. 09 2013, 5:49 pm)
QUOTE
 ...... Who would have guessed the Party of reduced government would be the one resisting these freedoms....  

Well....there's some valid slippery-slope logic:

If you let SOME marry same-sex, then before you know it, EVERYBODY would want to marry same-sex....then, where would the kids come from to finance social security???.

Nah, the "slippery slope" the bible-thumpers warn us about will inevitably lead to marriages involving polygamy, bestiality, and pedophilia.

And once that happens, watch out! God unleashed a hurricane on New Orleans and wildfires on Colorado because of their tolerance of homosexuality ... do we really want to suffer the wrath of God when we start marrying and having sex with our dogs?

Just like marijuana, gay marriage is a gateway drug and a slippery slope to more perversity and decadence. This is just one more sign that the end times are near!


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 11:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Nov. 10 2013, 8:02 am)
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(Old Frank @ Nov. 09 2013, 7:18 pm)
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(ol-zeke @ Nov. 09 2013, 5:49 pm)
QUOTE
 ...... Who would have guessed the Party of reduced government would be the one resisting these freedoms....  

Well....there's some valid slippery-slope logic:

If you let SOME marry same-sex, then before you know it, EVERYBODY would want to marry same-sex....then, where would the kids come from to finance social security???.

Nah, the "slippery slope" the bible-thumpers warn us about will inevitably lead to marriages involving polygamy, bestiality, and pedophilia.

And once that happens, watch out! God unleashed a hurricane on New Orleans and wildfires on Colorado because of their tolerance of homosexuality ... do we really want to suffer the wrath of God when we start marrying and having sex with our dogs?

Just like marijuana, gay marriage is a gateway drug and a slippery slope to more perversity and decadence. This is just one more sign that the end times are near!

If that was the reason for Katrina, what the hell have those Filipinos been up to?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 12:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe they have started believing in some older imaginary friend, and that really upsets the current leading imaginary girl friend??  Or imaginary boy friend?  Or imaginary bi friend?

The possibilities are nearly endless.  Tweet the Pope and see what he thinks.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 12:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Same-sex marriage is still not legal in Michigan.  (You're talking about a state that still had all the sodomy laws in place until the 2003 Supreme Court decision...)  But the company I work for announced earlier this year they would now recognize same-sex domestic partnerships for employee benefits.  Could have knocked me over with a feather!!  This is a company that still doesn't recognize flex-time, requires drug-testing and has a dress code.

I'm pretty sure h*ll has frozen over... probably not a bad thing.  :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

While this county was founded in the idea that religion should remain separate from the government, I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 2:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 10:49 am)
QUOTE
If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

Is genetic propagation a requirement of marriage?

Also, there are women and men who cant have children, how does that figure into genetic propagation let alone Gods plan? Why would God allow this to happen? Should we allow men and women to marry if they can't have children?


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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 11:49 am)
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...I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain...

There's an interesting perspective.  Be careful reading god's thoughts so clearly and with such self-serving selectivity.  Remember, God also explicitly forbids mixed-thread clothing and eating shellfish, if we faithfully interpret your chosen source there.

Or to put it differently, it's a pretty good sign that your god might be imaginary if he happens to hate the same people you do.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 3:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 10 2013, 12:03 pm)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 11:49 am)
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...I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain...

There's an interesting perspective.  Be careful reading god's thoughts so clearly and with such self-serving selectivity.  Remember, God also explicitly forbids mixed-thread clothing and eating shellfish, if we faithfully interpret your chosen source there.

Or to put it differently, it's a pretty good sign that your god might be imaginary if he happens to hate the same people you do.

LOL, I was looking up Leviticus when you posted that.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 3:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 10:49 am)
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While this county was founded in the idea that religion should remain separate from the government, I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

Why does it have to fit or make sense to YOU?
It's not about you.

I don't get the desire to marry someone of the same sex, but it's not about me either.  
So you and I don't get it...SO WHAT!  
Why should the fact that we don't get it stop others from having the freedom to marry someone they love?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:03 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 11:49 am)
QUOTE
...I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain...

There's an interesting perspective.  Be careful reading god's thoughts so clearly and with such self-serving selectivity.  Remember, God also explicitly forbids mixed-thread clothing and eating shellfish, if we faithfully interpret your chosen source there.

Or to put it differently, it's a pretty good sign that your god might be imaginary if he happens to hate the same people you do.

I don't recall saying I hate anyone, or implying that God hates anyone.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 4:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lotsa room for MY version of God in MY heart.

Just shouldn't be any room for MY version of God in OUR government.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 4:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 8:49 am)
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If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

Not really.  It's a multi-variate trait (i.e. multiple genetic/environmental factors) meaning you'll always have a certain propensity towards bisexuality/homosexuality in the population.

The key thing to remember is that human sexuality is not a black&white thing, and that homosexuality does not prevent people from reproducing.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 6:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The editorial letter in the link below is from the mother of a gay son. It dates from April 2000 and isn't primarily about gay marriage, but I still think it is very powerful and pertinent to the topic at hand.

I've posted this before:
http://www.otkenyer.hu/uw-lev-e.php


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 6:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

13 years ago a majority of Alabama's citizens voted to rescind the provision in the Alabama Constitution that prohibited inter-racial marriage.  40 percent voted against rescinding that provision in the first election of the 21st century.

There's a long road to equality in many states still, whether it be skin color or sexual preference.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 9:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Nov. 10 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE
The editorial letter in the link below is from the mother of a gay son. It dates from April 2000 and isn't primarily about gay marriage, but I still think it is very powerful and pertinent to the topic at hand.

I've posted this before:
http://www.otkenyer.hu/uw-lev-e.php

link appears to be broken
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:37 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:03 pm)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 11:49 am)
QUOTE
...I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain...

There's an interesting perspective.  Be careful reading god's thoughts so clearly and with such self-serving selectivity.  Remember, God also explicitly forbids mixed-thread clothing and eating shellfish, if we faithfully interpret your chosen source there.

Or to put it differently, it's a pretty good sign that your god might be imaginary if he happens to hate the same people you do.

I don't recall saying I hate anyone, or implying that God hates anyone.

Actions speak far louder than words, LB.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 9:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE

(Drift Woody @ Nov. 10 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE
The editorial letter in the link below is from the mother of a gay son. It dates from April 2000 and isn't primarily about gay marriage, but I still think it is very powerful and pertinent to the topic at hand.

I've posted this before:
http://www.otkenyer.hu/uw-lev-e.php

link appears to be broken

The link worked for me just now, both my post and your quote of it. Nevertheless, here's the text of the letter:



This editorial is from the Concord Monitor, Vermont, April 30, 2000

By SHARON UNDERWOOD

As the mother of a gay son, I've seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be. Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people. I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.

My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay. He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.

In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life without dignity.

You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.

At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic I don't know. I can only tell you that it is inborn.

If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it. For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will? If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?

A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."

You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda" could tear down the principles they died defending. My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart. He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.

You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.

How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage. You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.

The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "Whatever happened to the idea of striving… to be better human beings than we are?"

Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2013, 10:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's a long and bumpy road.

Really hard to tell whether we are making progress in the long run, but I hope so.

I know that civil rights and more universal education has made life better for millions of Americans, but we still have a long way to go before there is true equality of opportunity and tolerance for everyone in our communities.

Keep on keep'n on.


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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:49 pm)
QUOTE
While this county was founded in the idea that religion should remain separate from the government, I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

I have to ask how you know what God's plan is? I've always been told that no one knows God's plan.
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(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 10 2013, 7:45 pm)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:37 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:03 pm)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 11:49 am)
QUOTE
...I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain...

There's an interesting perspective.  Be careful reading god's thoughts so clearly and with such self-serving selectivity.  Remember, God also explicitly forbids mixed-thread clothing and eating shellfish, if we faithfully interpret your chosen source there.

Or to put it differently, it's a pretty good sign that your god might be imaginary if he happens to hate the same people you do.

I don't recall saying I hate anyone, or implying that God hates anyone.

Actions speak far louder than words, LB.

I think I can disapprove of a certain behavior without hating the people who participate in it.

Sorry I can't just keep my mouth shut and go along with the crowd.
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(cgaphiker @ Nov. 11 2013, 5:08 am)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:49 pm)
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While this county was founded in the idea that religion should remain separate from the government, I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

I have to ask how you know what God's plan is? I've always been told that no one knows God's plan.

This is somewhat amusing, as I did not say that, but since you asked, I believe that God makes his plan clear in the Bible.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2013, 7:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 11 2013, 7:34 am)
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(cgaphiker @ Nov. 11 2013, 5:08 am)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:49 pm)
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While this county was founded in the idea that religion should remain separate from the government, I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

I have to ask how you know what God's plan is? I've always been told that no one knows God's plan.

This is somewhat amusing, as I did not say that, but since you asked, I believe that God makes his plan clear in the Bible.

The bible was written by men wasn't it? Aren't all men sinners? Perhaps they were wrong?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2013, 8:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 11 2013, 7:24 am)
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Sorry I can't just keep my mouth shut and go along with the crowd.

You are part of the crowd. Those refusing to go along with it are finally being heard and given the rights they deserve.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2013, 8:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 11 2013, 7:34 am)
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(cgaphiker @ Nov. 11 2013, 5:08 am)
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(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 10 2013, 1:49 pm)
QUOTE
While this county was founded in the idea that religion should remain separate from the government, I find it very sad that fewer and fewer people can find room for God in their hearts.

If you won't accept that God forbids same sex relationships, them perhaps you can explain how this fits in from a biological Darwinian perspective.  Seems to me that same-sex attraction seems contrary to genetic propagation.

I have to ask how you know what God's plan is? I've always been told that no one knows God's plan.

This is somewhat amusing, as I did not say that, but since you asked, I believe that God makes his plan clear in the Bible.

That statement is a bit contradictory. You claim you didn't say you knew Gods plan then turn around and say it's clear to you in the Bible what it is. Obviously you think you're speaking on behalf of God.

Your Darwin comment makes it appear that you think Darwin is some kind of god who created the evolutionary process. Or that you at least think other people believe that. That's a bit of  straw man argument. Over-population is more likely to destroy the human race than homosexuality.
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