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Topic: Unintended consequences of Affordable Care Act, weren't unexpected< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 8:18 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yet another view of how Obamacare is unfolding:

From Unintended Consequences Of Obamacare :

The law of unintended consequences has its roots in Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” of the marketplace. The concept is that mass actions, particularly those of government, always have effects that are unscripted. In the case of the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, we are beginning to see the first evidence of the unintended (but not necessarily unexpected) consequences.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 8:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My BIL's insurance went up $100 per month while his deductible rose from $1,000 to $5,000. For him, it was unexpected. Since he is a young male, it did not surprise me. It is his generation that has to subsidize the old and sick.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 8:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm 56 and my rates and deductible both went up a bit although the company insurance was already well in excess of what was required. Seems the system isn't working as it was advertised.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Another unintended consequence is that more physicians are refusing insurance. Practices say cutting out insurers cuts 40% of their overhead.

From Cutting Out Insurers Cuts Out 40% of Physician's Overhead :

On the cusp of the Affordable Care Act mandating most Americans to have health insurance next year, a rise in doctors who don’t take insurance might seem paradoxical. But health-care experts say the two forces go hand in hand, as patients may find concierge doctors more accessible, especially if traditional doctors get flooded with more patients. Also fueling the trend is a little-known clause tucked into the health-care law that allows direct primary-care to count as ACA-compliant insurance, as long as it is bundled with a “wraparound” catastrophic medical policy to cover emergencies.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 13 2013, 5:55 am)
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I'm 56 and my rates and deductible both went up a bit although the company insurance was already well in excess of what was required. Seems the system isn't working as it was advertised.

As advertised by the Republican opponents of doing anything at all?

I agree. But then overly simplistic slogans rarely get fulfilled. Look at "…you can keep it.." or "The friendly skies".
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 2:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well it would help immensely if Governors and legislatures in red states would extend Medicaid and open the exchanges for their states. The SC ruled that they didn't have to, but it is a large part of the ACA being successful. And of course conservatives don't want that to happen, So, they are sabotaging it, of course.

This was also part of the problem with the website initially. Millions could not join the exchanges in their state so they had to do so at the federal level and the website was overwhelmed in short order.

Was/is the website screwed up? Sure, and any rational person should have expected that. But, a website can be fixed. Reactionaries want to throw the baby out with the bath water, just to discredit the black Pres with the african name.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 3:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think that the uproar over the technical issues is absurd, a waste of time, and it detracts from the real problems with the ACA.

The law RAISED the cost of insurance coverage for those with employer sponsored coverage (the vast majority of Americans). There will be BIG winners and BIG losers in the individual market. It is a program for the sick and poor, and the middle class will pay the bill.

As far as unintended consequences (the above issues were intentional), I think that it has cost jobs. Maybe not in significant numbers (yet?), but given the current employment situation, the loss of even a small number of jobs is unacceptable. I think the biggest impact will be to further push companies to rely on part-time employees.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 3:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Nov. 13 2013, 2:50 pm)
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the black Pres with the african name.

Huh? I thought he was Irish?!?!

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hmmm not sure how you see it being responsible for raising the rates of those insured through their company.

My company had a 4.8% rate increase that included an INCREASE in coverage level.

That is a lower rate increase than has been typical for more than a DECADE before some guy named Obama said anything about anything.....

Not sure how those double digit increases in the past can be blamed on the president, but please inform me I would love to know how that happened.  I know the insurance industry tries to predict the future, but man you must be crazy to believe they knew about Obama in the late 90s already!

What I am seeing is the SMALLEST increase in premiums in many years along with an actual increase in coverage......

Guess that does not sit will with those who are against Obama.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 3:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, health insurance premiums for employer sponsored coverage had lower increases than previous years. That was directly attributable to the poor economy. While Obama certainly gets some credit for that, the ACA is NOT responsible for the lower increases. As a point in fact, a portion of those increases are directly attributable to mandates in the ACA.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 5:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just FYI, our companies old PPO plan would have had over 100% increases. So they went to a high-deductible HSA plan. Hooray, my premium only went up a little less than $100/month. Of course, my deductible went from $1K to $5K.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 6:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Overall: early days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....-number
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 7:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Early days indeed! The real impact on employer sponsored coverage is on the horizon. The increases/cancellations will not be as dramatic as in the individual market, but it will impact many more individuals. Add in the impact on full-time employment, and the current concerns about website problems, low early enrollment, and a few million cancellations will seem trivial.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 10:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Was/is the website screwed up? Sure, and any rational person should have expected that.

Obama admitted he expected it to work correctly on day 1. What does that say about him?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 11:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The web site is not simply screwed up. It's a train wreck with personal data security issues and poor data architecture. The fact that the gov had 3 years to implement this is truly damming (but not surprising)

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2013, 11:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Another unintended consequence.  I just found out tonight that a former employer of mine (food service at the local college) just cut the number of hours of some long-time employees just so they would have to provide coverage under Obamacare.  This same company has done the same on other campuses, as well.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 6:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(burntfoot @ Nov. 13 2013, 9:56 pm)
QUOTE
Another unintended consequence.  I just found out tonight that a former employer of mine (food service at the local college) just cut the number of hours of some long-time employees just so they would have to provide coverage under Obamacare.  This same company has done the same on other campuses, as well.

Many employers have been doing that for the past couple decades.  Today they simply have Obamacare to blame for it.  Much easier than fessing up that it was the employer's own decision to save a few bucks by screwing their employees.

I can't say with such little information whether your former employer's claim is valid or not, but there have been enough things blamed solely on Obamacare lately (including things that have little to do with the PPACA in any tangible way) that it's hard to believe such claims without some explanation of why it was Obamacare that caused it.  It's become an open-ended catch-all excuse.  I'm waiting to hear about the next time an employer makes a crappy change in employee uniforms or breakroom conditions and says it was Obamacare's fault when the employees complain.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 7:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The ACA obviously is not solely to blame for the abysmal job market, and has been overused as a convenient excuse. However, it is undeniable that the ACA, at the very least, has created another incentive for some companies to reduce hours or employees.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 8:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am keeping my individual Blue Cross health insurance policy. It has always been good insurance and met the Obamacare criteria - covers hospitalization, preventive care, maternity care, etc even though it goes up 10% or so a year. My insurance agent says that it will probably go up in price, as it usually does, when the renewal comes up in August.

But I feel sorry for those with insurance that doesn't cover hospitalization or cancer or something and like their insurance but are being forced to change.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 9:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 14 2013, 6:01 am)
QUOTE

(burntfoot @ Nov. 13 2013, 9:56 pm)
QUOTE
Another unintended consequence.  I just found out tonight that a former employer of mine (food service at the local college) just cut the number of hours of some long-time employees just so they would have to provide coverage under Obamacare.  This same company has done the same on other campuses, as well.

Many employers have been doing that for the past couple decades.  Today they simply have Obamacare to blame for it.  Much easier than fessing up that it was the employer's own decision to save a few bucks by screwing their employees.

I can't say with such little information whether your former employer's claim is valid or not, but there have been enough things blamed solely on Obamacare lately (including things that have little to do with the PPACA in any tangible way) that it's hard to believe such claims without some explanation of why it was Obamacare that caused it.  It's become an open-ended catch-all excuse.  I'm waiting to hear about the next time an employer makes a crappy change in employee uniforms or breakroom conditions and says it was Obamacare's fault when the employees complain.

Are you really naive enough to think that increasing the cost of employment for employers through the new health law does not create a disincentive for hiring and employment?

If employers were so intent on cutting costs absent Obamacare, they would reduce jobs rather than reduce hours.

About 10 years ago, the French tested the laws of economics by mandating a 35 hour workweek, assuming that limiting labor capacity/productivity, employers would hire more workers and alleviate high unemployment. Is it a surprise to you that this stratagem did not achieve its intended result?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 10:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hungry Jack/MLW/others....honest question(s):

1.  Are you OK with our pre-ACA HealthCare system?.
2.  If not, specifically what would you do about it?.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 10:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Nov. 14 2013, 7:47 am)
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If employers were so intent on cutting costs absent Obamacare, they would reduce jobs rather than reduce hours.

That would be true if it weren't false.  Companies like Walmart have for well-over a decade cut employee hours to just-under 30 hours and refused to promote employees to full-time in order to avoid giving benefits. Keep base costs down, and all.

I have little need to respond to your putting words in my mouth with the rest. I didn't say everything you seem to think I said. The world is rarely so absolute as simpletons like to believe.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Nov. 14 2013, 10:02 am)
QUOTE
Hungry Jack/MLW/others....honest question(s):

1.  Are you OK with our pre-ACA HealthCare system?.
2.  If not, specifically what would you do about it?.

Let me re-phrase my first question a little:

1.  Anything wrong at all with our pre-ACA system?....if so,
    what were they?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 13 2013, 7:14 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Was/is the website screwed up? Sure, and any rational person should have expected that.

Obama admitted he expected it to work correctly on day 1. What does that say about him?

Well Amazon works, the Apple store works, AMTRAK works, Orbitz works, so there's plenty of experience that online shopping is an understood and usable approach. So when the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services said the online healthcare.gov health insurance exchange online shopping site was going to function why ever would it have been expected they were going to be wrong?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 1:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 14 2013, 3:01 am)
QUOTE

(burntfoot @ Nov. 13 2013, 9:56 pm)
QUOTE
Another unintended consequence.  I just found out tonight that a former employer of mine (food service at the local college) just cut the number of hours of some long-time employees just so they would have to provide coverage under Obamacare.  This same company has done the same on other campuses, as well.

Many employers have been doing that for the past couple decades.  Today they simply have Obamacare to blame for it.  Much easier than fessing up that it was the employer's own decision to save a few bucks by screwing their employees.

I can't say with such little information whether your former employer's claim is valid or not, but there have been enough things blamed solely on Obamacare lately (including things that have little to do with the PPACA in any tangible way) that it's hard to believe such claims without some explanation of why it was Obamacare that caused it.  It's become an open-ended catch-all excuse.  I'm waiting to hear about the next time an employer makes a crappy change in employee uniforms or breakroom conditions and says it was Obamacare's fault when the employees complain.

I'm suspecting the same is true (their own agenda) when it comes to insurance companies and all those canceled "PPACA non-compliant" polices. Given grandfathering they don't get "forced" to cancel anything they keep the same, so when they CHANGE a policy beyond the limits they know are in law: that's a choice the insurance company is making and I bet it's for a financial benefit. Drop the cheap policies and offer more expensive, i.e. more profitable ones as their offered replacement all while scapegoating PPACA.

So here's a simple "administrative" action I'd like the feds to take: a canceled policy get's examined: if the company has lied about why it was canceled (the policy was grandfathered in just fine and they're canceling it because they simply want to) they get slapped with a nice, hefty, fine. There IS a loophole that may need to be plugged: the previously owned plans are grandfathered in as long as they are not substantively changed: so insurance companies can now simply add stuff and then shrug that they'd no choice but to cancel since the plan is non-PPACA compliant and NOT grandfathered in, when the fact is it's lost the grandfather status by their own actions.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 1:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Delayed until after the midterms……
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-25....er-year

Where does the President get the authority to change the law? I know that when he made the employer mandate change there was talk of legal challenges?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 1:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

markinOhio said
QUOTE

The law RAISED the cost of insurance coverage for those with employer sponsored coverage (the vast majority of Americans).
There will be BIG winners and BIG losers in the individual market. It is a program for the sick and poor, and the middle
class will pay the bill.


OK Mark. There you go again making some claim without any evidence. Lets see a link to the evidence the supports


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 3:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Apple's retail point-of-sale system suffers nationwide outage

Uh oh, beter dump my iPhone!

http://appleinsider.com/article....-outage

I bet Obama ordered the NSA to take them down to help make healthcare.gov look better. Those Kenyans are clever that way.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nope, you have been mandated to purchase an iPhone, and you will pay more so that others can pay less (or nothing) for the same iPhone. Unless of course the supreme leader decides that you can keep that Driod for another year.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 5:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

My BB has been deemed inferior by the lords, and now BB has dropped my service and I need to buy an iPhone. But I cannot order an iPhone online, and the 800 number says I should check online...

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