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Topic: Landmark Senate Vote Limits Filibusters< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 1:46 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Filibuster eliminated for many appointments

About time


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 1:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Be careful what you wish for.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes finally but yes there is a risk here if Republicans ever get to a point where they control the
presidency and congress and  remain as fanatical as they are now.

Hence why Republicans are putting so effort in gerrymandering, cutting down early voting and other
voter suppression tactics.

Republicans no long term demographic changes aren't in their favor


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Goverment should be very slow and not at the direction the wind is blowing at that point in time.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am surprised and generally pleased.

Just more fallout caused by the intransigence of the Party of NO.  

The government shutstorm, and the threat of default on the US debt revealed just how crazy and unchangeable the Tea Hatters are, so there was no longer an excuse to put off strengthening the Presidency even more.

Sad, and unnecessary, that it came to this pass, but it was pretty much inevitable as the hatred of Obama becomes ever greater when he wins another test of strength against the right wing Congress Critters.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"The need for change is obvious," Reid, of Nevada, said in remarks on the Senate floor. He said that in the nation's history, there have been 168 filibusters against presidential appointees. "Half of them have occurred during the Obama administration — during the last four and a half years," he added.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Nov. 21 2013, 12:02 pm)
QUOTE
Yes finally but yes there is a risk here if Republicans ever get to a point where they control the presidency and congress and
remain as fanatical as they are now.

Hence why Republicans are putting so effort in gerrymandering, cutting down early voting and other voter suppression tactics.

Republicans no long term demographic changes aren't in their favor

It will be interesting to hear the excuses the Democrats come up with when they can not longer blame everything on the Republican Party.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's about time someone did something about the recalcitrants. (I suggest this as the new name for that political group.)

I have also read (today in the NY Times: "G.O.P. Maps Out Waves of Attacks Over Health Law") that there will no end to the "let's go backwards" tactics of these guys, no doubt heavily funded by the usual suspects.

Their aim is not to govern, but to rule by fiat and command, for they are "the entitled".
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:10 pm)
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Their aim is not to govern, but to rule by fiat and command, for they are "the entitled".

Different sides of the same coin, Gabby.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:09 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Nov. 21 2013, 12:02 pm)
QUOTE
Yes finally but yes there is a risk here if Republicans ever get to a point where they control the presidency and congress and
remain as fanatical as they are now.

Hence why Republicans are putting so effort in gerrymandering, cutting down early voting and other voter suppression tactics.

Republicans no long term demographic changes aren't in their favor

It will be interesting to hear the excuses the Democrats come up with when they can not longer blame everything on the Republican Party.

Excuses for what exactly?

This is just for presidential nominees and not senate filibustering for senate legislation in general

Republicans seem to always blame Democrats for everything from the debt to the economy


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:12 pm)
QUOTE

(Gabby @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:10 pm)
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Their aim is not to govern, but to rule by fiat and command, for they are "the entitled".

Different sides of the same coin, Gabby.

Can you explain that exactly given Democrats haven't even come close to obstructing legislation when they
were in the minority like the Republicans.  Democrats haven't come even close to showing anyone that they
this hostility to government that the Republicans do. Granted this hostility to government the Republicans
show is very inconsistent(because still despite their rhetoric they very much do like government in specific
ways like when it comes to enforcing stricter abortion laws if possible).


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 2:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(3-gun. @ Nov. 21 2013, 11:06 am)
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Goverment should be very slow and not at the direction the wind is blowing at that point in time.

Personnel appointments  really don't seem to be about "wind blowing" and their recent opposition looks a lot like legislating through other means.

Legislating should be deliberate, filling government vacancies that are appointed positions? The years long delays look more like petulant obstructionism, or extortion.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 4:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Concerning the appointment of judges, which is what this is about, The Chief executive appoints who he wishes to appoint. The Senate is to gauge the qualification of that person. They cannot block appointees because of ideological reasons. The pres won the election and this is one of his perks. He gets to nominate people that share ideological opinions with his own.

Why have the process at all if the minority party can block, through filibuster, an appointee just because they do not like the political party or views of the nominee?

Winning an election is very important.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 5:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:41 pm)
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Concerning the appointment of judges, which is what this is about, The Chief executive appoints who he wishes to appoint. The Senate is to gauge the qualification of that person. They cannot block appointees because of ideological reasons. The pres won the election and this is one of his perks. He gets to nominate people that share ideological opinions with his own.

Not really true.  The president makes the nominations, but they need Senate approval (majority vote) before the job is filled.

It's summarized pretty succinctly on CivilRights.org, as well as (for Supreme Court nominees specifically) in the CRS Report for Congress (summary page).

The Senate accepts or rejects nominees by a majority vote.  It's supposed to be a vote over qualifications, but it's nearly impossible to omit political ideology from the equation.  Whether the current Senate Minority has abused the filibuster privilege in this process of blocking nominees, remains to be seen I guess.  I think they clearly have abused it, but the Senate needs to be careful about making permanent changes to the rules to subvert that.  Pendulums swing.  What goes around comes around, as they say.  Eliminating checks and balances can have disastrous consequences down the line.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 5:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seems like a death knell for getting much passed over the next few years. For those who think this is good, Google Gang of 14. Same judicial appointment issue existed for Bush 43. Rather than the nuclear option, which the R's could have also invoked, the Gang of 14 allowed an up or down vote on most judicial appointments.

The 3 D's who voted against this could hardly be called moderates. What the majority of D's showed is they are lemmings.

To me it doesn't matter which party you favor. Neither seems to support the American people. Party is above all.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 6:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bill g @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:24 pm)
QUOTE
To me it doesn't matter which party you favor. Neither seems to support the American people. Party is above all.

Something that the fanatics on both sides fail to appreciate...

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 6:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) accused Democrats of a power grab and suggested that they will regret their decision if Republicans regain control of the chamber."

So he's saying they'll REVERSE this and restore the minority party's power to effectively eliminate filling vacancies in the executive and judicial branches????

Yeah, that will teach those Dems!

ROTFLMAO.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 7:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have been waiting for this, as I take it as a sign that the Dems are tired of taking crap and will begin to assert themselves.  The lack of confirmations in these positions is simply a complaint against the President, and has nothing to do with the qualifications of the nominees.  In the case of the DC Appeals Court, I think it is because so many of those judges get nominated to the USSC, and the Os wanted as few Obama nominees in that position as possible.  Finally, we can have a Federal Government with all high level positions filled, without the drama that comes with the O circus.  

There are 55 Senators in the D caucus, when the Independents who usually side with them are counted.  There are several states with 1 Senator of each party.  I cannot see the case for the Os to recover Senate control, but it might happen.  They would need to gain 6 seats, or the VP in the case of a tie.  I just don't see this as a big deal, since it only applies to Executive nominations, and Judicial below the level of the USSC.  Let the victorious POTUS make his selections.  It is what the majority wanted.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 7:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Nov. 21 2013, 6:02 pm)
QUOTE

(bill g @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:24 pm)
QUOTE
To me it doesn't matter which party you favor. Neither seems to support the American people. Party is above all.

Something that the fanatics on both sides fail to appreciate...

There it is. I was just waiting for the "both sides" false equivalence responses

BTW given Bill G's posts, he hardly qualifies as a neutral moderate


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

bill g said
QUOTE

Seems like a death knell for getting much passed over the next few years. For those who think this is good,
Google Gang of 14. Same judicial appointment issue existed for Bush 43. Rather than the nuclear option, which
the R's could have also invoked, the Gang of 14 allowed an up or down vote on most judicial appointments.



You mentioning the Gang of 14 is kind of the point. Democrats were willing to work with Republicans but
Republicans these days ARE NOT willing to work with Democrats. I mean you really are clueless. Obviously
you don't have the slightest clue that for many of these presidential nominees Republicans are filibustering
not so much because they disagree with with their views but because they don't believe in agency the position or
that Obama should even get to appoint to anyone. The idea that there is any comparison between the level
of filibustering from Democrats in the past compared to Republicans while Obama has been president is
laughable

Oh and the 3 democrat senators that did vote against it wer s. Carl Levin of Michigan, Joe Manchin of West Virginia
and Mark Pryor of Arkansas all of who are moderates with maybe the exception of Levin


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


Until very recently in U.S. history, filibusters were rarely used. Half of all filibusters of executive-branch
nominees have occurred under President Obama
, and it was obvious from the first day of his presidency that
Republicans would use the tactic to hamstring the government and block Obama.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....-option


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bill g @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:24 pm)
QUOTE
Seems like a death knell for getting much passed over the next few years.

You're right, it could get much worse. The acrimony could get so bad that Republicans would start reflexively voting against judicial nominees to whom they have no substantive objection, purely to prevent the President from filling court vacancies.

Oh, wait....

Seriously, though: seriously? The GOP House leadership is already the death knell for getting any legislation passed (even if a majority of House members actually support it; see, e.g., immigration reform), and GOP abuse of the filibuster itself was the death knell for getting anyone confirmed to executive or judicial positions. On that latter score, at least, much more will get done--and in that respect, at least, the government will function as it should.

All of that aside, I have to ask this: do you honestly believe that a future GOP majority in the Senate wouldn't abolish the filibuster regardless of what the Democrats do while they have the majority? Because if you do believe that, you haven't been paying attention.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Turns out water is still wet!

Those Post reporters can really find the obscure facts, neh?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Nov. 21 2013, 8:16 pm)
QUOTE

Until very recently in U.S. history, filibusters were rarely used. Half of all filibusters of executive-branch
nominees have occurred under President Obama
, and it was obvious from the first day of his presidency that
Republicans would use the tactic to hamstring the government and block Obama.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....-option

and about this part
" and it was obvious from the first day of his presidency that  Republicans would use the tactic to
hamstring the government and block Obama."

and that links up perfectly with the secret meeting on Obama's inauguration day in 2009

http://www.vanityfair.com/online....ipation


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Nov. 21 2013, 1:12 pm)
QUOTE

(Gabby @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:10 pm)
QUOTE
Their aim is not to govern, but to rule by fiat and command, for they are "the entitled".

Different sides of the same coin, Gabby.

Awful lopsided coin, HJ. Apparently, you didn't read either the article or post #6 above:
QUOTE
He said that in the nation's history, there have been 168 filibusters against presidential appointees. "Half of them have occurred during the Obama administration — during the last four and a half years," he added.
Half in all the years since 1789, then half since Obama was elected.
An average of .38 per year for the first 168 years, then 16.8 per year avg since Obama's election.


If you're gonna flip that coin and call the results "fair", I have news for you: someone is going to take you to the cleaners. You can't hide a 44 to 1 bias all that easily.

(Ben2World @ Nov. 21 2013, 5:02 pm)
QUOTE

(bill g @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:24 pm)
QUOTE
To me it doesn't matter which party you favor. Neither seems to support the American people. Party is above all.

Something that the fanatics on both sides fail to appreciate...
You really don't have to be a "fanatic" to see that "fanatic" as applied to the GOP isn't anything like "fanatic" applied to the Dems. Certainly not since the advent of the Tea Party segment. Let's revisit that number above: 44 to 1?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 8:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For those that like to to engate in false equivalences here is something to consider

I said
"
I mean you really are clueless. Obviously you don't have the slightest clue that for many of these
presidential nominees Republicans are filibustering not so much because they disagree with with their
views butbecause they don't believe in agency the position or that Obama should even get to appoint
to anyone.
"

perfect example of of the above is the following


Millett is a Harvard-trained lawyer who worked in the administration of both Democratic President Bill Clinton and
Republican President George W. Bush. The American Bar Association gave her its top rating for the D.C. Circuit post.

As is often the case with stalled nominations, Republicans did not contend that Millet lacked qualifications. They
simply do not want to give Obama more appointments to the important court
, which they argue is underworked anyway.

For nearly two years, Republicans held up confirmation of Richard Cordray as director of the Consumer Financial
Protection Bureau because they objected to the bureau's powers, not to Cordray, who has since been confirmed.


http://www.reuters.com/article....0131121


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 9:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013....-option

I thought they already had a deal, but I guess not:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013....er.html

And Yes the Rs would do this too, if they had not gotten a deal back in 2005:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005....ll&_r=0


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 9:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Nov. 21 2013, 4:49 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Nov. 21 2013, 6:02 pm)
QUOTE

(bill g @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:24 pm)
QUOTE
To me it doesn't matter which party you favor. Neither seems to support the American people. Party is above all.

Something that the fanatics on both sides fail to appreciate...

There it is. I was just waiting for the "both sides" false equivalence responses

BTW given Bill G's posts, he hardly qualifies as a neutral moderate

Logically speaking, when a person is disgusted with both choices (parties in this case) -- that does NOT automatically imply any kind of "equivalency".

But when faced with two choices that are both doing harm -- the critical factor is to think up a third option.  Debating which of the two harmful choices might be less harmful ought to be secondary.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 10:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Nov. 21 2013, 9:33 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Nov. 21 2013, 4:49 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Nov. 21 2013, 6:02 pm)
QUOTE

(bill g @ Nov. 21 2013, 2:24 pm)
QUOTE
To me it doesn't matter which party you favor. Neither seems to support the American people. Party is above all.

Something that the fanatics on both sides fail to appreciate...

There it is. I was just waiting for the "both sides" false equivalence responses

BTW given Bill G's posts, he hardly qualifies as a neutral moderate

Logically speaking, when a person is disgusted with both choices (parties in this case) -- that does NOT automatically imply any kind of "equivalency".

But when faced with two choices that are both doing harm -- the critical factor is to think up a third option.  Debating which of the two harmful choices might be less harmful ought to be secondary.

and what you need to get into your head is that because a person doesn't think both parties aren't equally
bad or doesn't agree with your broad sweeping generalization that both parties are "bringing down America"
and that both parties are bringing down our nation(Sure you can find politicians in both parties that fit
that description but then to conclude that in general is a mindless generalizations) doesn't mean that
person is a fanatic of

You use terms like "fanatics"(just like you once compared Tom to Ayatollah Khomein) because you don't offer
points based on specific documented facts and to compensate you apparently think if you smear someone with a
label like that that is all you have to do.

To further prove my point I will ask you to prove/show I'm a fanatic not using labels and generalizations like
you are so prone to do, but using specifics as in specific quotes from me and specific positions I've taken.

Does anyone believe Ben will come even close to making a substantive argument?

Oh and BTW, Ben, given your extreme position on abortion(for example your position on "personhood" where even
a super conservative state like Mississippi, voted a personhood amendment down.  See Ben that is an example of
a substantive argument. I gave a very specific argument and example there its something else that you think
you're in ANY position to call anyone else a fanatic. I mean I could read through some of those abortion threads
to see really how far out there you are Ben. Does anyone believe Ben will come even close to making a substantive
argument?


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politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2013, 10:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dennis:

You can rant all you want.  Doesn't do anything about YOUR FAILURE at logic above!!

Don't like both parties?  'False equivalency' -- Dennis screams moronically (and illogically).

Get a book on Logic 101.  Then come back and try again.


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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
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