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Topic: Gun owner dies in shoot out< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 23 2013, 10:11 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A 76-year-old Upstate woman was killed in an exchange of gunfire with three men, according to a coroner.

Here's what happens when you give someone eight hours of training and convince them they're safer packing heat.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2013, 9:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here is what happens when you are outnumbered 3 to 1

She could have been a veteran police officer and still be just as dead

Would she have survived being shot if she had been unarmed???


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2013, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

She could have left and called the police. She could have not fired first and started a gun fight. Congrats Bab, you and the rest of the NRA lemmings have returned us to the Wild Wild West.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2013, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wild Wild West.

You called??


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trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2013, 1:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So few facts, so much speculation.....
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2013, 6:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Nov. 24 2013, 12:40 pm)
QUOTE
Wild Wild West.

You called??

I always figured you were World Wide West.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2013, 5:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

8 hours of training paid off for the victim that the gun pointed at his head
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2013, 6:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RandyPenny @ Nov. 25 2013, 5:37 pm)
QUOTE

QUOTE
“If [the customer's] life was not in danger, if no one had a gun up to him, if no one pointed a gun at him - what gives him the right to think that it's okay to just shoot someone?” a relative, who wished to remain anonymous, told FOX10. “You should have just left the store and went wherever you had to go in your car or whatever.”


...and let our son kill the person he was pointing the gun at, because our son has a right to get away with murder and robbery.

QUOTE
But when the suspect pulled out a gun at about 5:30 p.m., the Good Samaritan did too.

“He had the gun to his head. He had him on his knees,” said the Good Samaritan, who wished to remain anonymous. “I drew my gun on him and I said 'Hey don't move.' At that point he swung around and before he had a chance to aim the gun at me I fired. I didn’t want to shoot him.”
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2013, 6:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

[QUOTE]“[Criminals] tend to think that they are the only ones with guns

Someone was happy that wasn't the case.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2013, 6:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RandyPenny @ Nov. 25 2013, 6:29 pm)
QUOTE
[QUOTE]“[Criminals] tend to think that they are the only ones with guns

Someone was happy that wasn't the case.

And don't forget - there are both federal and state laws that prohibited that criminal from possessing a gun.  Apparently he wasn't impressed with the gun control laws already on the books.

I'm sure someone will claim if the law abiding citizen had not been allowed to own a gun, then surely this criminal would not have had a gun either.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2013, 7:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

nogods
QUOTE
I'm sure someone will claim if the law abiding citizen had not been allowed to own a gun, then surely this criminal would not have had a gun either.


"someone"? That's me. At the risk of offending some who do not like to think beyond their own little world ( that's not you nogods, you have always accepted and considered thought provoking points even if you don't agree ), I would point out that in a gun free America that no one would have a gun.

But I am a realist, and some people - actually lots of people - do have guns. So I have to agree with your insightful point:
QUOTE

there are both federal and state laws that prohibited that criminal from possessing a gun.  Apparently he wasn't impressed with the gun control laws already on the books.


Thank you for sharing your perspective though we both know that the usual suspects will soon be posting their normal disrespectful personal attacks directed at you - punishing you for your good faith contribution. That is their response when they can't come up with a logical debate point.

Your point is a valid one in my mind. "There are both federal and state laws that prohibited that criminal from possessing a gun" and yet this criminal, just out of jail, had a gun and was using it to hold up a Family Dollar store and possibly execute the store clerk with it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 6:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
I would point out that in a gun free America that no one would have a gun.

I'll give up my guns as soon as the anti-gun freakshow absolutely guarantees me that every criminal has given up theirs and pose no threat of any kind to innocent people.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 7:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Nov. 25 2013, 7:34 pm)
QUOTE
I would point out that in a gun free America that no one would have a gun.

Well, sure, if guns did not exist, then criminals wouldn't have guns.

But as you point out, there is wishful thinking and there is reality.

Would be even better if we didn't have any bad guys.  Then those who use guns for recreation and hunting could continue to do so without the worry of mis-use.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 3:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 24 2013, 1:26 pm)
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So few facts, so much speculation.....

Agree.  But it does look like she died fighting.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 3:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:17 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 24 2013, 1:26 pm)
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So few facts, so much speculation.....

Agree.  But it does look like she died fighting.

Not for long.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 3:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE

(Three @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:17 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 24 2013, 1:26 pm)
QUOTE
So few facts, so much speculation.....

Agree.  But it does look like she died fighting.

Not for long.

HG,

Since neither you nor I know the timing of the resurrection,  I'm assuming the "not for long" refers to "fighting" not to "died."

Again, we don't know the details, but you would prefer she had died waiting to be finished off?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 10:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:35 pm)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE

(Three @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:17 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 24 2013, 1:26 pm)
QUOTE
So few facts, so much speculation.....

Agree.  But it does look like she died fighting.

Not for long.

HG,

Since neither you nor I know the timing of the resurrection,  I'm assuming the "not for long" refers to "fighting" not to "died."

Again, we don't know the details, but you would prefer she had died waiting to be finished off?

No I'd preferred she'd pull back out of the driveway and called the cops instead of starting a gangland style gunfight. Pretty simple concept.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 8:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Another sacrifice to the Gun God, family protection at its finest:

-- A Florida woman allegedly shot her daughter to death Monday night because she thought the person knocking on her door was the boyfriend she had just fought, police said Tuesday.

Witnesses told police they heard a gunshot and saw Adele Bing cradling Ruby Bing, 25, in her arms crying "Baby girl, don't die."

"How could I look my grandkids in their face and say I killed their mother?" Bing, 52, told the officers who arrested her. "Y'all can lock me away for good."

Bing is jailed on a charge of second degree murder in the death of her only daughter, according to Winter Haven, Florida, police.

The mother also faces a charge of child abuse without great bodily harm because her daughter was holding her 4-month-old baby -- the shooting suspect's granddaughter -- in her arms when the shot was fired.

The elder Bing, who was "still upset" about a "heated argument" with boyfriend James Lane earlier in the day, had "a baseball bat in her left hand and a .22-caliber pistol in her right hand" when she opened her door at 8:47 p.m. Monday, police said.

She told police it was "a f--ked up accident" because she thought it was Lane, 39, who was "banging and kicking on her front door," according to the police report obtained by CNN.

"As she opened the door, a shot was fired, hitting her daughter in the upper chest," the police release said. "The 4 month-old was not injured. Ruby Bing died at the scene."



http://www.cnn.com/2013....binsite


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 8:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Suspected drunken driver hits, kills Caseyville pedestrian on Illinois 157

QUOTE
Police were checking a report of a drunken driver about 1:30 p.m. Wednesday when the suspect's van hit and killed a pedestrian on Illinois 157, Caseyville Police Chief Jose Alvarez said.

The male driver of the white 1996 Dodge van was injured and taken to a local hospital, Alvarez said. His legs and ankles were hurt, but the damage was not life threatening. The van is registered to a woman from Columbia, according to the Illinois Secretary of State records.

The victim was a 29-year-old man from Caseyville. His name was not released pending notification of his family.

"The vehicle hit him from behind. He didn't even see it coming," Alvarez said.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 9:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Perfect comparison!

A mother simply cannot get to work, or school, or anything, without the trusty gun, and a few accidents destroying the family are just an unavoidable side benefit of having such a necessity immediately at hand, even more so if you happen to be drunk or blind angry.

What a country!


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 10:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Nov. 30 2013, 8:59 am)
QUOTE
Suspected drunken driver hits, kills Caseyville pedestrian on Illinois 157

QUOTE
Police were checking a report of a drunken driver about 1:30 p.m. Wednesday when the suspect's van hit and killed a pedestrian on Illinois 157, Caseyville Police Chief Jose Alvarez said.

The male driver of the white 1996 Dodge van was injured and taken to a local hospital, Alvarez said. His legs and ankles were hurt, but the damage was not life threatening. The van is registered to a woman from Columbia, according to the Illinois Secretary of State records.

The victim was a 29-year-old man from Caseyville. His name was not released pending notification of his family.

"The vehicle hit him from behind. He didn't even see it coming," Alvarez said.

So nogods is opposed to pulling someone over when they are drunk? Or is there some other point he was lamely trying make?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 11:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Your chances of dying are probably neither decreased nor increased by having a gun, if you're already a careful, considerate person. If you're not, I suspect that the chances grow substantially regardless what you "carry".

Some people simply can't stand the thought of "being helpless" in the face of armed (or even unarmed) confrontation.

But...we are all "helpless", like it or not. That is, BTW, on both a "cosmic" as well as a practical level.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 11:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Some people simply can't stand the thought of "being helpless" in the face of armed (or even unarmed) confrontation.We are all "helpless", like it or not.

True as far as it goes. If an assailant intends to shoot the victim without warning, then armed or unarmed won't make a difference. It's the threat before that enables a prepared and armed person to defend.

However, there are far too many untrained but armed civilians who think and believe a firearm is a magic wand... wave it and the bad guy goes away. I've always said that everyone has the right to own weapons BUT walking around locked and loaded in public should require much more seriously active training* rather than just a few hours at a table in a gun safety class.

*40 hours hands-on in a tactical shooting range with a 2 passes required in "Hogan's Alley" at the end and at least a bi-annual refresher.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 11:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 30 2013, 11:29 am)
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However, there are far too many untrained but armed civilians who think and believe a firearm is a magic wand... wave it and the bad guy goes away. I've always said that everyone has the right to own weapons BUT walking around locked and loaded in public should require much more seriously active training* rather than just a few hours at a table in a gun safety class.

*40 hours hands-on in a tactical shooting range with a 2 passes required in "Hogan's Alley" at the end and at least a bi-annual refresher.

I'm surprised to hear that from you, but that seems like a good start. How about a bi-annual psych evaluation as well and a requirement that all guns have biometric triggers?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 11:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 30 2013, 10:29 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Some people simply can't stand the thought of "being helpless" in the face of armed (or even unarmed) confrontation.We are all "helpless", like it or not.

True as far as it goes. If an assailant intends to shoot the victim without warning, then armed or unarmed won't make a difference. It's the threat before that enables a prepared and armed person to defend.

However, there are far too many untrained but armed civilians who think and believe a firearm is a magic wand... wave it and the bad guy goes away. I've always said that everyone has the right to own weapons BUT walking around locked and loaded in public should require much more seriously active training* rather than just a few hours at a table in a gun safety class.

*40 hours hands-on in a tactical shooting range with a 2 passes required in "Hogan's Alley" at the end and at least a bi-annual refresher.

And, I contend that most people are never going to devote the necessary time.

For myself, this is the most important issue with firearms.

I was introduced to rifles at a very early age - deer hunting seasonally every year, rabbit hunting in the winter months and "security" when the three of us kids went fishing in the "lake" (cattle watering hole, actually) during the summer months: cottonmouth moccasins liked to cool themselves in the deep holes created by the cattle in the receding band of mud at the edge of the "lake", and, tutored by a "snake-fearing papa & momma", who believed that "rattlers were everywhere", we kept on the lookout. Large reptilians are not all that widespread, of course: they're predators and, by definition, require a large population of prey. Huge populations are not probable, though the "artificial concentrations of prey", the henhouse and rabbit hutches, attracted them readily in the nocturnal hours for both chickens, eggs and easy, captive "gimme" prey.

I had to "qualify" multiple times on the available ancient rifles in the military, and, finally, stationed in SW Asia, on the AR-15.

But the commitment of the amount of time, effort and study it would take to maintain a weapon, and weapon skills, not to mention carry it at all times, is not one I feel I want, or need, to take. I do feel that such training should be mandatory for "carry" - or even use, but this isn't going to fly with the "it's a free country" crowd.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Nov. 30 2013, 10:36 am)
QUOTE
How about a bi-annual psych evaluation as well and a requirement that all guns have biometric triggers?

I'm probably being naive to suggest it, but I suspect that many of those who would be potential targets of a "psych evaluation" might not survive the kind of extensive human contact and interaction required to get through an adequate firearm training course, especially if it was recurring. In fact, I'd hazard that it would actually be better not to have specifically designated "psych evaluations", but simply have assigned professionals to observe and, perhaps, then recommend for evaluation.

But, again, this begins to smack of "mind control", ala "Minority Report" - and severe curtailments of "freedom". None of this is simple, as almost everyone has already guessed, I suspect.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2013, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Nov. 30 2013, 11:47 am)
QUOTE
But, again, this begins to smack of "mind control", ala "Minority Report" - and severe curtailments of "freedom". None of this is simple, as almost everyone has already guessed, I suspect.

Well you know what they say, "freedom ain't free."
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2013, 2:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Nov. 26 2013, 7:25 am)
QUOTE

(Bass @ Nov. 25 2013, 7:34 pm)
QUOTE
I would point out that in a gun free America that no one would have a gun.

Well, sure, if guns did not exist, then criminals wouldn't have guns.

But as you point out, there is wishful thinking and there is reality.

Would be even better if we didn't have any bad guys.  Then those who use guns for recreation and hunting could continue to do so without the worry of mis-use.

Of course then the criminals would have knives and lead pipes.

And the law abiding folks would not be allowed to carry knives or lead pipes

How is it somehow noble or more civilized to allow (insure) the criminals to be better armed???


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2013, 2:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 30 2013, 11:29 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Some people simply can't stand the thought of "being helpless" in the face of armed (or even unarmed) confrontation.We are all "helpless", like it or not.

True as far as it goes. If an assailant intends to shoot the victim without warning, then armed or unarmed won't make a difference. It's the threat before that enables a prepared and armed person to defend.

However, there are far too many untrained but armed civilians who think and believe a firearm is a magic wand... wave it and the bad guy goes away. I've always said that everyone has the right to own weapons BUT walking around locked and loaded in public should require much more seriously active training* rather than just a few hours at a table in a gun safety class.

*40 hours hands-on in a tactical shooting range with a 2 passes required in "Hogan's Alley" at the end and at least a bi-annual refresher.

I don't disagree exactly

But I know what professional training costs and I am not perfectly comfortable telling poor folks they cannot afford to protect themselves

What the heck....if contraception is a right then firearms training must be!

Free firearms training for everyone  :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2013, 5:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Nov. 30 2013, 9:29 am)
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Perfect comparison!

A mother simply cannot get to work, or school, or anything, without the trusty gun, and a few accidents destroying the family are just an unavoidable side benefit of having such a necessity immediately at hand, even more so if you happen to be drunk or blind angry.

What a country!

Like those who can't get through the day without alcohol?

Millions of Americans do just fine without an automobile.  The pollution caused by manufacturing and operation of autos kills more people in one day than a years worth of firearm accidents.  Add in the deaths and injuries from driving an unnecessary machine and we really got something to talk about.
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