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Topic: Meanwhile, to the Far East, Oh my< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 5:51 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"On Monday, Japan’s hawkish Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told the Japanese legislature that the creation of a Chinese air-defense identification zone was “a profoundly dangerous act that may cause unintended consequences.” Characterizing China almost as some rogue actor in international politics, he added: “Japan will ask China to restrain itself while we continue cooperating with the international community.”

In turn, China has expressed dissatisfaction with Japan’s criticism of the newly formed ADIZ. A spokesman for the Chinese Ministry of National Defense labeled Japanese concerns “utterly groundless and China won’t accept them,” explaining that the creation of the ADIZ was “totally rational and indisputable.” China has lodged formal complaints, or what Chinese state media called “solemn representations,” with both the Japanese and U.S. embassies in Beijing."



Read more: Are China and Japan Inching Closer to War Over a Few Disputed Islets? | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013....nLK8LiT

More chest bumping, good times.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 6:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe the Japanese are looking at our relationship with Israel?

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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 6:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well when they look in that direction (West towards Israel) their view will be a tad obscured by the flybying American B-52's overflying the unrecognized ADIZ.

Couldn't slip a Benghazi reference in there? #NotTrying

Or are you trying to equate those islands with the West Bank and Gaza? If so I'd be fascinated to hear it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 8:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

China and Japan have a heated dispute over a speck of an island.

When China lost a war with Japan back in 1895, it ceded Taiwan plus a bunch of islands around Taiwan to the victor.  That was documented in a map as part of the surrender -- and the island in dispute today was included on that map.  Back then, the Japanese never said anything about "hey, that island is already mine and you can't give what isn't yours to me".  Not a peep.

Then we had WWII.   China was one of the victorious countries, and one of the terms of Japanese surrender was to return EVERYTHING that was ceded in 1895.  It's why Taiwan (and a bunch of other islands) are no longer controlled by the Japanese today.

But the particular disputed island -- the US took control because of its then strategic location (US also took control of Okinawa).  Fast forward to the 1970's -- the US gave the islands under its control back to the Japanese.

Except the disputed island ought to be returned to China -- which is the current Chinese (and Taiwanese) position.

But what's the Japanese position?  Their claim is that there were no signs of any human habitation on that island -- and thus, they were actually the first to take possession.  OTOH, as far as I know, the Japanese do not dispute that the particular island was on the Chinese map documenting territories ceded to Japan.

IMHO, the Japanese position is a bit disingenuous.  Lots of teeny-tiny islands claimed by various nations around the world are uninhabited.  We ourselves lay claim to many such uninhabited specks in the Pacific, for example.  Doesn't mean they are "free for the taking".

As for China's ADZ, it is contiguous to its territorial waters.   But really, I am not sure how far ADZ's extend out under international laws and conventions... will need to look into it more.  Anybody here know?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 10:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.nytimes.com/2013....ne.html

Do you mean the one they are claiming now?

This sounds like right out of Clancy's last novel!

Of course the real question is why do an of these countries want to claim these islands.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 11:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dayhiker9 @ Nov. 26 2013, 7:52 pm)
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Of course the real question is why do an of these countries want to claim these islands.

This is admittedly uneducated...but I'm guessing there are nearby undersea gas/oil/mineral resources at stake?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 11:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(orygawn @ Nov. 26 2013, 8:01 pm)
QUOTE

(dayhiker9 @ Nov. 26 2013, 7:52 pm)
QUOTE
Of course the real question is why do an of these countries want to claim these islands.

This is admittedly uneducated...but I'm guessing there are nearby undersea gas/oil/mineral resources at stake?

That's certainly true of the other islands China are after in their tussle with Vietnam et al.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2013, 11:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 26 2013, 8:29 pm)
QUOTE

(orygawn @ Nov. 26 2013, 8:01 pm)
QUOTE

(dayhiker9 @ Nov. 26 2013, 7:52 pm)
QUOTE
Of course the real question is why do an of these countries want to claim these islands.

This is admittedly uneducated...but I'm guessing there are nearby undersea gas/oil/mineral resources at stake?

That's certainly true of the other islands China are after in their tussle with Vietnam et al.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute

Of course... for resources, for strategic locations, etc.  We should know... we''ve got islands far, far away from the contiguous 48 -- and we ain't letting them go.

Now, this is completely my opinion.  Regardless of historic claims (both East and South China Seas have been China's sea routes for millennia) -- methinks:

1.  The Diaoyu / Senkaku belongs to China, both for historic reasons and geographic proximity (look it up on any map).  And given the atrocities committed by the Japanese -- they really have the nerve to even try to hold on...

2.  The myriad of islands / islets in the South China Sea... I think it is counterproductive for China to hold on.  Why claim the seas practically all the way to other countries' beachfront?  In the interest of good neighborliness (and better intra-Asian cooperation) -- China should give up the areas beyond its territorial waters (as defined by internationally-accepted conventions).  China, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. should jointly manage/protect the area.

Anyway, my two cents.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 3:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 26 2013, 6:59 pm)
QUOTE
Well when they look in that direction (West towards Israel) their view will be a tad obscured by the flybying American B-52's overflying the unrecognized ADIZ.

Couldn't slip a Benghazi reference in there? #NotTrying

Or are you trying to equate those islands with the West Bank and Gaza? If so I'd be fascinated to hear it.

What I'm implying is that you can't depend on the US and Japan is realizing the wishy washy foreign policy might not provide for their interest in the region.

They have seen Israel betrayed.


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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:22 pm)
QUOTE
They have seen Israel betrayed.

Heavens to Betsy. What will the Israeli terrorists do now?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 4:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Nov. 27 2013, 12:26 pm)
QUOTE

(gunslinger @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:22 pm)
QUOTE
They have seen Israel betrayed.

Heavens to Betsy. What will the Israeli terrorists do now?

Their best route is start having boatloads of kids: they either win the voter contest or it's over.

As to "abandonment", Bibby backing President Obama's opponent was a gamble Bibby* lost. Oops. And cheerleading them into their cliff dive of entangling the West Bank beyond any possibility of release was for all these many decades was  NOT a positive either: friends don't let friends commit demographic suicide.

Israel doesn't want Iran to have nukes, preferring they be the unique nuclear weapons armed MId-East power: and the United States agrees and is continuing to work to keep that imbalance in place: no matter the hyperventilating, without having actually read the agreement, on the part of various Pubs and/or Bibby.

* Don't care to find the correct spelling.

ETA: Oh and re "wishy washy" foreign policy? NO ONE recognizes Israel's "right" to permanently occupy and annex the occupied territories to the dismay of the Israeli hardliners like Bibby. And that the United States won't invade Iran just because Biiby would like us to? That's common sense one would have thought would have seeped over even to the Bush bootlickers by now given the stellar "success" of the Iraq invasion and occupation.. adding another foreign invasion fiasco to the pile on the petulant demand of a foreign government is off the table for this administration and I applaud that. And were Israel to give it a full on go: invading Iran all on it's own? Pass the popcorn.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2013, 7:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In Clancy's book it was Taiwan

http://www.tomclancy.com/book_display.php?isbn13=9780425262306

but I don't remember why it was such a golden goose


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 1:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dayhiker9 @ Nov. 27 2013, 7:41 pm)
QUOTE
In Clancy's book it was Taiwan

http://www.tomclancy.com/book_display.php?isbn13=9780425262306

but I don't remember why it was such a golden goose

Been a few months since I read the book, but I believe China claimed the entire South China Sea.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HSF @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:57 pm)
QUOTE
As to "abandonment", Bibby backing President Obama's opponent was a gamble Bibby* lost. Oops.
"Bibby" = "Sheldon Adelson" - never heard that one in reference to this particular mafiosi.

I'm still reeling over the fact that one of the largest supporters of the rigidly "pro-family" party and its uptight Mormon candidate in the last election is a Jew (from Ukraine, no less) and, of course, a supporter of Israel - who is also a casino resort operator who competes directly with a gang of Chinese mafia criminals, all of whom are pushing gambling and prostitution. Somewhat startling, at best.

But perhaps I actually don't know who you're talking about.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 6:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:57 pm)
QUOTE
...... no matter the hyperventilating, without having actually read the agreement, on the part of various Pubs and/or Bibby.

Yeah, here's a sampling of the hyperventilating before the details of the agreement were even released:
QUOTE
“The Iran deal and our allies: You can’t spell abandonment without OBAMA” -- Ari Fleischer, former chief spokesman for President George W. Bush

“Placing your trust in #Iran is like betting on a blind horse on a wet track,” tweeted Rep. Vern Buchanan (Fla.).

Rep. Michele Bachmann (Minn.) called it a “total surrender by Obama administration.”

Rep. Ted Poe (Tex.) determined it to be a “bum deal.”

“In addition to domestic debacle of Obamacare,” wrote Rep. Tom Price (Ga.), “now POTUS and Dems accelerate crisis in Middle East.”

Sen. Mark Kirk (Ill.) said the administration won only “cosmetic concessions.” House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (Va.) quickly branded the pact a “mistake.” Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) said it “makes a nuclear Iran more likely.”

And Cornyn kept right on going, sending out links to articles titled, “Abject Surrender by the United States” and “Our ‘Suckers Deal’ with Iran.”
OP by Dana Milbank

And of course, folks like gunslinger mindlessly parrot that hyperventilating BS without applying an ounce of critical thought.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 8:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

China & Japan send in fighters (not at the same time)


http://www.nytimes.com/2013....28&_r=0

Note the map of the overlapping air space claimed.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 8:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Nov. 28 2013, 12:47 pm)
QUOTE

(HSF @ Nov. 27 2013, 3:57 pm)
QUOTE
As to "abandonment", Bibby backing President Obama's opponent was a gamble Bibby* lost. Oops.
"Bibby" = "Sheldon Adelson" - never heard that one in reference to this particular mafiosi.

I'm still reeling over the fact that one of the largest supporters of the rigidly "pro-family" party and its uptight Mormon candidate in the last election is a Jew (from Ukraine, no less) and, of course, a supporter of Israel - who is also a casino resort operator who competes directly with a gang of Chinese mafia criminals, all of whom are pushing gambling and prostitution. Somewhat startling, at best.

But perhaps I actually don't know who you're talking about.

Netanyahu, whose nickname is apparently Bibii, derived from Benjamin somehow.

http://www.theatlantic.com/interna....3

And his stance re Romney was crystal.
http://www.theguardian.com/world....-romney
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 8:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Panhandler @ Nov. 28 2013, 10:54 am)
QUOTE

(dayhiker9 @ Nov. 27 2013, 7:41 pm)
QUOTE
In Clancy's book it was Taiwan

http://www.tomclancy.com/book_display.php?isbn13=9780425262306

but I don't remember why it was such a golden goose

Been a few months since I read the book, but I believe China claimed the entire South China Sea.

I think u are right, but this is really close to Twain as well?

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2013, 9:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
China, however, saw the move as a violation of a longstanding informal agreement to leave the territorial dispute in abeyance pending a possible agreement to jointly exploit any resources, such as oil and gas, which may be discovered in the islands’ vicinity.


http://www.csmonitor.com/layout....changer


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