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Topic: An interesting target of corporate theft< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2013, 6:03 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seeds.

http://www.npr.org/blogs....twitter

"One case involves corn in Iowa; the other, genetically engineered rice in Kansas. Court documents filed in each case (corn here, rice here) offer an entertaining mixture of Midwestern farming, alleged corporate espionage, and a whiff of international intrigue."
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2013, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

While these cases have international ramifications, they can charge US farmers just as strenuously for replanting saved seed or even unintentionally having a cross pollinated crop.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2013, 9:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes a case on a US farmer reached the Supreme Court of the United dates.

He lost as I recall.

YES.
http://www.scotusblog.com/media....ed-seed

But a farmer thinking he'd found a loophole isn't nearly as entertaining as a foreign spy skulking in a farm field. That's just golden.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2013, 9:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Next time they'll have to send in the professionals.
(warning, BAD language)

http://youtu.be/O4k2PxwIV-w


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 15 2013, 6:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The irony; they ship us toxic toys, pet foods, and drywall, then refuse shipments of GMO grain, while at the same time they try to steal our most advanced genetic work. At the same time, our government conspires with corporations to hide the genetic content of food and fracking compounds that appear in drinking water.

Somewhere in between is where good policy is.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 15 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Right? All they had to do was accept that shipment of corn, it contained the latest and greatest... but not yet approved for human consumption. They seem to be looking for new and creative ways to poison us or our pets. They could have processed it and sent it right back. Opportunity, missed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 15 2013, 7:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ecocentric @ Dec. 15 2013, 5:09 am)
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The irony; they ship us toxic toys, pet foods, and drywall, then refuse shipments of GMO grain, while at the same time they try to steal our most advanced genetic work. At the same time, our government conspires with corporations to hide the genetic content of food and fracking compounds that appear in drinking water.

Somewhere in between is where good policy is.

We had over twenty earthquakes here in the DFW area in the last month.

More than likely from fracking.

I am just waiting for the news reports of chemicals found in drinking water from all that fracking going on around here.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 15 2013, 7:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They don't have to disclose most of what they're using, how would you know where it's coming from?
We get a report from the city each year of what's in our water. It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you don't know what you're looking for... and if you're on a well, you're on your own.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 17 2013, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ Dec. 15 2013, 7:09 pm)
QUOTE

(Ecocentric @ Dec. 15 2013, 5:09 am)
QUOTE
The irony; they ship us toxic toys, pet foods, and drywall, then refuse shipments of GMO grain, while at the same time they try to steal our most advanced genetic work. At the same time, our government conspires with corporations to hide the genetic content of food and fracking compounds that appear in drinking water.

Somewhere in between is where good policy is.

We had over twenty earthquakes here in the DFW area in the last month.

More than likely from fracking.

I am just waiting for the news reports of chemicals found in drinking water from all that fracking going on around here.

Being in Texas, I assume fresh water isn't nearly as abundant as here in the northeast. So where are they getting all the freshwater needed for the fracking there? Fresh water, that in the BEST scenario, you'll never see again.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 17 2013, 9:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(star @ Dec. 15 2013, 7:50 pm)
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They don't have to disclose most of what they're using, how would you know where it's coming from?
We get a report from the city each year of what's in our water. It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you don't know what you're looking for... and if you're on a well, you're on your own.

Environmental engineer here... so I speak fluent mumbo jumbo.

Being in Wisconsin, I assume your municipal drinking water comes from a surface body... most likely a lake... that wouldn't be contaminated by fracking. Nitrates (from fertilizers), coliform (ie - bird/animal poop), etc. are probably the main concerns.

Anyone on a well is a slave to the water quality of the aquifer they're drawing from.

The thing about testing, though, is that it's limited. If you don't know something could be in your water, how do you know to test for it? If the fracking chemicals are secret, you'll only stumble across them if you're testing for compounds that are in the same chemical family, or one of their breakdown products appears in your water.

PM me if you'd like, with the details of your municipal water system annual report or well results.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 17 2013, 12:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd have thought a run through a gas chromatograph and maybe a mass spectrograph would pop out "outliers" for further more specific analysis? Water should be H2O so a big honking organic peak or three would stand out... Too complicated, expensive or?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 17 2013, 2:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Note, I'm not a lab analyst, but I've across similar situations. This is how it was described to me.

First, certain chemicals require certain preservatives (volatiles - HCl, metals - HNO3, etc.) Each sample then needs to be handled/extracted in a specific way based on chemical "family" (volatiles, semi-volatiles, gylcols, PCBs, etc ... all different). And each type of analysis focuses only certain "ranges" (ex - organochlorine pesticides is a different analysis than organophosphorous pesticides). By the time you've accounted for all the different variables... very expensive. And that's assuming that whatever compound you're looking for has been standardized, allowing for a comparison. The other problem is matrix interference... a high concentration of one or more chemicals (or family of chemicals) "clouds" the results for the others. Sample has to be diluted several times, which can sometimes make the results meaningless.

If you try for some kind of "big picture" analysis, the results will be too vague. You'd expect groundwater to contain a myriad of naturally-occurring chemicals, so a positive response isn't useful. Then you're back to the process I previously described.

What some are doing is testing for "tracer" chemicals. Something like uranium (for example) that is known to not exist in local shallow aquifers, but does exist in deeper shales. If it suddenly starts appearing in the aquifer, you know a conduit has formed, and you can assume that the fracking chemicals have also entered the aquifer.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 17 2013, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No. We draw ground water. The city has at least 4 high cap wells. I get my drinking water from another well, in Rock Springs. I don't trust he gunk in the city water and our well out at the house hasn't been tested since our major flooding event in 2008. We have a good, tested source nearby and better safe than sorry.
We have many restrictions on drawing off surface water. They seem to get waived most years due to drought, for ag use, but in normal situations you can't. Waukesha has irreparably poisoned its groundwater, they're seeking a draw off from Lake Michigan, which isn't currently allowed, what they're doing for water in the meantime, I don't know. There have been laws introduced that deregulate high cap wells and water usage, but mostly with an eye to industrial applications, mining and CAFO type farms.
A bit just passed me about growth hormones showing up in the ground water now.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 1:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here it is.
http://m.host.madison.com/ct....ch=true

They're looking at manure as a possible source, I think they're looking at the wrong bodily function. Premarin and other estrogen replacements are derived from the urine of pregnant horses after all. And I  use the term "they're looking" very loosely. They don't seem terribly interested in testing or studying the effects of.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 9:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Scary.

ETA: Sorry for hijacking your thread HSF.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 11:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It happens and the sidestreet is interesting in and of itself.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't have the water report to hand, they usually mail them out in the summer, everyone gets one. I understand that most of these things are naturally occurring. We always have some trace amount of arsenic, benzene, whatever... things I know are bad, but can't be avoided entirely. Out at the house I do note what the guy across the road is doing with his field, or the gravel pits all around me are up to. I got all the neighbors riled up when I found they were using one of their old pits as a dump (they own a road construction company too), we have some ground water concerns not so very far from my property from an old landfill, so nobody was much in the mood to have that go around again. Those houses had to have their wells capped and be put on city water. It was horribly expensive and took years to resolve... and of course they only discovered they had a problem in the first place when everyone started getting sick.

And yes, we've totally wandered off topic! Sorry :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 3:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Dec. 18 2013, 9:18 am)
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Scary

Scarier yet, why are they not concerned about it in the water? Because it's in our FOOD.
Drink your milk kids.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 4:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(star @ Dec. 18 2013, 3:43 pm)
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(WalksWithBlackflies @ Dec. 18 2013, 9:18 am)
QUOTE
Scary

Scarier yet, why are they not concerned about it in the water? Because it's in our FOOD.
Drink your milk kids.

Yeah. I noticed that. Not a significant concern because the concentrations are 1000x higher in milk. Ummm... no... the milk is just 1000x more worrisome.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 4:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(star @ Dec. 17 2013, 4:07 pm)
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No. We draw ground water. The city has at least 4 high cap wells. I get my drinking water from another well, in Rock Springs.

I assume you get bottled water? If so, what company/source? These things are usually pretty easy to find on-line, but I'm drawing blanks.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 7:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Rock Springs has a well that provides free public access to what is now a privately owned spring. It's the water sold in stores under the Hinkley Springs brand. They don't sell it around here because we know we could get it for free and their bottling plant, I believe, is in Illinois. They denied access at one point but were ordered by the courts to provide what people had historically always been able to have access to, it's even the name of the town for cripes sake.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 18 2013, 7:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It comes out of a very disreputable looking pipe that runs under the street off property and flows constantly, It's right next to the Baraboo River and that's where the runoff goes. They claim there was no chance of flood contamination because water was coming up the whole time and that keeps the bad from going down. But it was also tested immediately after (they had an over 30 foot wall of water come down the gorge in the 2008 flood) and is tested yearly.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2013, 9:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow. I've never had so much trouble finding a water quality report. Probably because of the "public access to private well" agreement.

Apparently Hinkley gets their water from DS Waters, which owns numerous sources. I can only find the report of their PRODUCT (after being filtered, mixed with other sources, etc), not the sources themselves.

I downloaded the DNR's Bottled Drinking Water report. It says there are 24 processors in the State, then only lists the results for 15.
http://datcp.wi.gov/uploads/Food/pdf/BottledWater2013.pdf

A search of public water sources in Sauk County wasn't fruitful either. Maybe you could query and take a look:
http://prodoasext.dnr.wi.gov/inter1/pws2$.startup

Otherwise, I'm outta ideas. Always feel free to PM me if you get a Water Quality Report and need help understanding it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2013, 11:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thank you!
We're looking at having animals out at the house again and then I really ought to get the well tested. I'm not as concerned with the neighbor's field but we used to have a pig farm to the north, and then there is the previously mentioned plume of contamination from that landfill. I haven't heard anything in ages about anyone monitoring it. It's just so distressing, we're mucking up our water at an outstanding rate, now they've come along and allowed all these high cap wells. If there were one thing you'd think we wouldn't be short on it's water, and yet we are. Lots of wells went dry in our heat wave a couple years ago. We held out because our well had failed in a previous drought in the 80's and was sunk deeper.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2013, 11:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They post the water report for the water from Hinkley's right by the spout. The Waters Clinic, an alternative healing center of some renown in the Dells named for a Dr. Waters, did some separate report, they recommend their patients use this water rather than bottled. That used to be posted there as well, it's faded to a blank sheet of paper. They're firmly anti fluoridation, amongst other things. Of course you have to somehow get it home and store it, which usually means plastics too, but it's better than the single use type bottles, and since I travel no great distance to get it, it's cost effective. I see people there with Illinois and Minnesota plates all the time, filling up entire vans and trucks with jugs, there often is a wait to use the tap.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2013, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(star @ Dec. 19 2013, 11:13 am)
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... there is the previously mentioned plume of contamination from that landfill. I haven't heard anything in ages about anyone monitoring it.

I assume Wisconsin has regulations about such things, so the landfill or State has likely hired a consultant to monitor on a regular basis. Contact the landfills division of DNR and inquire about the status. They might make you fill out a Freedom of Information Act request.

http://dnr.wi.gov/staffdi....itoring


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2013, 1:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Vigilance, communication, and cooperation. This thread rocks.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2013, 1:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm most concerned about nitrates from the pig farm. My mother passed year before last, from a variety of cancers she had not treated or disclosed to us. Her health declined very, very rapidly after she retired and was home all day. Just a few years ago we were often mistaken for sisters, and I look young for my age! We saw it, but didn't have the first idea what was really going on. The neighbor between and the wife of the farm's owner have also had. He'd had polio and was never healthy.

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