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Topic: Minimum wage Increase< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 18 2014, 4:47 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just what the middle class needs…..Less jobs, and yet another mechanism to redistribute money from them to the poor!

http://www.cbo.gov/publica....paign=0
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 19 2014, 9:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Right-wingers are clinging to this to show it would will lead to job losses while ignoring all the other
positive effects such as the following


Once the increases and decreases in income for all workers are taken into account, overall real income
would  rise by $2 billion. Real income would increase, on net, by $5 billion for families whose income
will be below the poverty threshold under current law, boosting their average family income by about 3
percent and moving  about 900,000 people, on net, above the poverty threshold (out of the roughly 45 million
people who are projected  to be below that threshold under current law).


of course if you don't care about the poor then none of the above you would care about

Oh and about this " what the middle class needs…..Less jobs, and yet another mechanism to redistribute
money from them to the poor!"

How dare money gets redistributed to the poor!!!

Its actually a pretty idiotic statement too because redistribution of money runs throughout our
system via the tax code but in this case it doesn't involve taxes. But what makes that statement
mind boggling idiotic is that the only way money gets redistributed in this way is through the
"free market" where customers make the choice to by something or not and that gets redistributed to
various people including employees but you obviously think that is bad.  Whether or not
the Minimum wage gets increased or not, the same "free mechanism" is what determines money getting
redistribution to the poor so what you're essentially saying is that even the normal "free
market" process that gives the poor a paycheck is bad. So I guess what we are left with is if
you had your way the poor wouldn't able to support themselves from a job and since you've been
hostile about using the government to help the poor through a direct safety net how the hell would
the poor survive if your ideas were implemented?

Now you might be in a somewhat stronger position if you would have said(but you didn't say) that raising the
min wage would lead to more redistribution of money to the poor than should be redistributed to the poor but
then you have to explain

A) why that would be bad especially if it doesn't use the tax code

B) What is your arbitrary cutoff line for too much money being redistributed to the poor and why
that is your arbitrary cutoff line


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 19 2014, 11:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've long know that both arguments on MW are bone-headed. It does lead to inflation and that may ultimately lead to job loss. but it's not a direct correlation. also there is absolutely no correlation between poor and MW.

It's teenagers and college student and some part time workers who make MW. They drive their BMWs to these jobs. It's total BS to call them poor. More like poor little rich kids.

using the walmart example of food stamps is more appropriate in understanding poor people. they certainly make more than minimum wage. they just don't make a living wage.

I'm all for creating a living wage , but that's more likely to result in job losses. Teenagers, I could care less what they get paid. working at McD is about learning responsibility and other skills. If it takes more hours to pay for gas, cigarettes and beer., who cares.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 12:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

bill g Said
QUOTE

It's teenagers and college student and some part time workers who make MW. They drive their BMWs to these jobs.
It's total BS to call them poor. More like poor little rich kids.


lOl!! You say its BS then you spew the bS that
"It's teenagers and college student and some part time workers who make MW. They drive their BMWs to these jobs. "

From politifact


To make a point about the need to increase the minimum wage, Maher pointed to the plight of fast food workers,
who, on average are 29 and receiving some form of public assistance.

The median age, which economists say is a more accurate measure than the mean age, is 29, according to the best
information we could find.


http://www.politifact.com/punditf....-are-pu

Does sound consistent with your claim that "It's teenagers and college student and some part time workers who make MW."

" poor little rich kids."

Where do get this preposterous BS?


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Our economy is healthy when more people have more disposable income. The free market will find ways to capture those dollars, and more consumer spending will create more jobs.

We will never pull out of this recession while the income for millions of Americans is stagnant or declining. The minimum wage is not a living wage, and is more likely to require subsidies like food stamps than to pump disposable income back into the economy.

On the other side of the equation, a CEO now makes about 400x the average worker instead of the 40x of a few decades ago. Hedge fund managers, Wall Street speculators, and private equity major shareholders are accumulating more and more of the wealth created by the economic activity in which every worker is a necessary part.

When people rail against a minimum wage increase that doesn't even make up for inflation since the minimum wage was first introduced, it is quite evident they are blind to how wealth has really been redistributed in this country and who the real job creators are.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 3:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Who is going to benefit ….low wage earners

Who is going to pay the bill……middle class wage earners

The percentage of individuals working for minimum wage is decreasing……….a good trend

The percentage of individuals in the middle class is decreasing………..not such a good thing

It is convenient to frame raising the minimum wage as the rich vs the poor. A slight increase in prices is not going to have a significant impact on the rich, and have NO impact on income inequality. However, that increase in prices will have a significant impact on the struggling middle class…..as they watch the median income continue to decrease.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 3:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Read and think about the real numbers.  It refutes the claims of both extremes above, but it does make abundantly clear how direct and great the impact would be in the consumer economy if the minimum wage were significantly increased.

And it also makes it pretty clear that these are primarily jobs that cannot be exported for cheap labor somewhere else, they are bottom of the barrel service jobs right here in America, so the fleeing jobs argument is total BS.

Read it and weep:

In 2012, 75.3 million workers in the United States age 16 and over were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.0 percent of all wage and salary workers. 1 Among those paid by the hour, 1.6 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 2.0 million had wages below the federal minimum.2 Together, these 3.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 4.7 percent of all hourly paid workers. Tables 1 through 10 present data on a wide array of demographic and socioeconomic characteristics for hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage. The following are some highlights from the 2012 data.

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)


In 2012, 6 percent of women paid hourly rates had wages at or below the prevailing federal minimum, compared with about 3 percent of men. (See table 1.)


About 5 percent of White, Black, and Hispanic or Latino hourly paid workers earned the federal minimum wage or less. Among Asian workers paid at hourly rates, about 3 percent earned the minimum wage or less. (See table 1.)


Among hourly paid workers age 16 and over, about 10 percent of those who had less than a high school diploma earned the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 4 percent of those who had a high school diploma (with no college) and about 2 percent of college graduates. (See table 6.)


Never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely than married workers to earn the federal minimum wage or less (about 8 percent versus about 2 percent). (See table 8.)


About 11 percent of part-time workers (persons who usually work less than 35 hours per week) were paid the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 2 percent of full-time workers. (See table 1 and table 9.)


By major occupational group, the highest proportion of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage was in service occupations, at about 12 percent. About three-fifths of workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2012 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving related jobs. (See table 4.)


The industry with the highest proportion of workers with hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and hospitality (about 19 percent). About half of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers, tips and commissions supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)


The states with the highest proportions of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage were Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas, and Idaho (all between 7 and 8 percent). The states with the lowest percentages of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage were Alaska, Oregon, California, Montana, and Washington (all under 2 percent). It should be noted that some states have minimum wage laws establishing standards that exceed the federal minimum wage. (See table 2 and table 3.)


The proportion of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 5.2 percent in 2011 to 4.7 percent in 2012. This remains well below the figure of 13.4 percent in 1979, when data were first collected on a regular basis. (See table 10.)



http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 3:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Mark, you don't seem to be able to grasp that most of the small businesses that make up our consumer economy are middle class business owners, and that they will be the main beneficiaries in growth of the consumer economy that would be jump started by a minimum wage increase.

You could look it up.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 3:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

markinOhio said
QUOTE

Who is going to benefit ….low wage earners

Who is going to pay the bill……middle class wage earners


you apparently think the min wage is some kind of government program that in funded via
taxes which of course isn't true.  There is no "bill". That is an absurd statement

markinOhio said
QUOTE

The percentage of individuals working for minimum wage is decreasing……….a good trend


Do you have a link or graph on that?


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do you have a link or graph on that?



Uhh, Dennis, that fact is accurate, it is included in the material I linked above.

Please read and learn.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 4:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Feb. 20 2014, 3:22 pm)
QUOTE
Mark, you don't seem to be able to grasp that most of the small businesses that make up our consumer economy are middle class business owners, and that they will be the main beneficiaries in growth of the consumer economy that would be jump started by a minimum wage increase.

You could look it up.

I guess that I’m just more concerned about middle class workers than the small business owners or the small percentage of workers that would actually benefit from an increase.

Further, I’m not so sure that those small business owners are going to have any long-term benefits. Spending patterns will change when the prices are increased. If Joe Middle class has to spend more for a Big Mac, and his income has not increase, that is less disposable income to spend elsewhere. Sure, roughly 3% of all workers will have additional disposable income (but even that will be limited since they will still have very low incomes), but the remaining 97% will have LESS disposable income because of increased consumer prices.

Unless of course, you believe that in all their benevolence, corporations will simply offset their increased labor cost by reducing profits, rather than raising consumer prices?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2014, 4:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hey wwwest

If you notice that posts of mine was only 4 minutes after your post so while you were posting that I will was replying to
Mark and deciding what I would respond to. Geez

BTW if you look at the data there was an increase from 2006 all the way to 2010 so given the recession I think its reasonably
to ask someone for documentation to see where that came from and my instincts tell me not to take Mark's word given
his record

Well anyway good informative link anway


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 2:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Love how so many compassionate, bleeding hearts are all for raising the MW. Giving raises not based on reward. Sad society that is being promoted...

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 3:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

" Giving raises not based on reward."

So that is how you see increasing the minimum wage?

So by that argument the minimum wage would be as low as what in your world?

Or would we even have a min wage?


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 3:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This same argument has gone on ev
ery time the minimum wage has been increased.  Every single time.

And the bad results never occur!Wake up people!


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 4:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That sounds like a slippery slope analogy to me.  Just because something didn't happen in the past is no indication it won't happen this time......
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(Dennis The Menace @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:33 pm)
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" Giving raises not based on reward."

So that is how you see increasing the minimum wage?

So by that argument the minimum wage would be as low as what in your world?

Or would we even have a min wage?

I meant to write "merit" not "reward."

Yes

no min wage.. none.

If you don't like the wage you are earning, find a way to earn more. Don't demand more just because.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 4:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Either increase it to a living wage (for non-dependents), or don't increase it at all.

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(wwwest @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:57 pm)
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This same argument has gone on ev
ery time the minimum wage has been increased.  Every single time.

And the bad results never occur!Wake up people!

And the good results never occur! Wake up people!

rather than depend on the government to give you raises...maybe people should take responsibility for themselves and figure out how to give themselves a raise.

You pro-dependency people...


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(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:24 pm)
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I meant to write "merit" not "reward."

Minimum wage earners are currently being paid less than what they merit.

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In 1968, the Federal Minimum Wage was $1.60.  Just to keep up with inflation, it would need to be $10.42 now.  Instead, it is $7.25.  Perhaps we should just link it to CPI and forget about it forever.  

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(Drift Woody @ Mar. 14 2014, 5:15 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE
I meant to write "merit" not "reward."

Minimum wage earners are currently being paid less than what they merit.

Pure BS. Sad how you consider merely existing as enough "merit" to get a pay increase.

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(ol-zeke @ Mar. 14 2014, 5:27 pm)
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In 1968, the Federal Minimum Wage was $1.60.  Just to keep up with inflation, it would need to be $10.42 now.  Instead, it is $7.25.  Perhaps we should just link it to CPI and forget about it forever.  

Get rid of the FMW ENTIRELY! How the SC deemed it constitutional is beyond logic. It is a STATE issue!

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Ol-Zeke,

For years Bob Brinker at Money Talk has been saying this.  I believe linking it to the CPI would be a fair way to go.  Would love to see it happen; however, politics are involved, so using fair measurements are out.

Happy Trails,

RS


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(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:20 pm)
QUOTE

(ol-zeke @ Mar. 14 2014, 5:27 pm)
QUOTE
In 1968, the Federal Minimum Wage was $1.60.  Just to keep up with inflation, it would need to be $10.42 now.  Instead, it is $7.25.  Perhaps we should just link it to CPI and forget about it forever.  

Get rid of the FMW ENTIRELY! How the SC deemed it constitutional is beyond logic. It is a STATE issue!

Not for workers engaged in interstate commerce.
Article I, Section 8

And then, John Muir was right....
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(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 1:29 pm)
QUOTE
rather than depend on the government to give you raises...maybe people should take responsibility for themselves and figure out how to give themselves a raise.

And that's why people banded together to represent their collective interests.  They're called unions.
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Mar. 14 2014, 6:24 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:20 pm)
QUOTE

(ol-zeke @ Mar. 14 2014, 5:27 pm)
QUOTE
In 1968, the Federal Minimum Wage was $1.60.  Just to keep up with inflation, it would need to be $10.42 now.  Instead, it is $7.25.  Perhaps we should just link it to CPI and forget about it forever.  

Get rid of the FMW ENTIRELY! How the SC deemed it constitutional is beyond logic. It is a STATE issue!

Not for workers engaged in interstate commerce.

And then, John Muir was right....

The interstate transactions are dealt with by the "company," not the employee. Nice try...

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(hbfa @ Mar. 14 2014, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 1:29 pm)
QUOTE
rather than depend on the government to give you raises...maybe people should take responsibility for themselves and figure out how to give themselves a raise.

And that's why people banded together to represent their collective interests.  They're called unions.

Excellent answer!

Company- UNION- Employee...

Not, Company- GOVERNMENT- Employee


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(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:39 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Mar. 14 2014, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 1:29 pm)
QUOTE
rather than depend on the government to give you raises...maybe people should take responsibility for themselves and figure out how to give themselves a raise.

And that's why people banded together to represent their collective interests.  They're called unions.

Excellent answer!

Company- UNION- Employee...

Not, Company- GOVERNMENT- Employee

Glad to hear you're pro-union.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 6:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:37 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Mar. 14 2014, 6:24 pm)
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(Scot @ Mar. 14 2014, 3:20 pm)
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(ol-zeke @ Mar. 14 2014, 5:27 pm)
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In 1968, the Federal Minimum Wage was $1.60.  Just to keep up with inflation, it would need to be $10.42 now.  Instead, it is $7.25.  Perhaps we should just link it to CPI and forget about it forever.  

Get rid of the FMW ENTIRELY! How the SC deemed it constitutional is beyond logic. It is a STATE issue!

Not for workers engaged in interstate commerce.

And then, John Muir was right....

The interstate transactions are dealt with by the "company," not the employee. Nice try...

Read the law? Employees of a company ARE involved in the commerce of the company. The same basis for federal worker safety regulations that prevent companies from poisoning their employees. OSHA. You think you've just discovered federal law and that these have never been challenged and defended?

The fact it's restricted is why the federal law only applies to about 130 million of the entire nation's workforce and not everyone.
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