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Topic: Knife control?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 7:15 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
MURRYSVILLE, Pa. (AP) - It was just before the start of class and the hallways were packed as usual with students at their lockers or chatting with friends.

Nate Moore was walking to homeroom, book in hand, when a classmate he knew to be quiet and unassuming tackled a freshman boy a few feet in front of him. Moore thought it was the start of a fistfight and went to break it up.

But 16-year-old Alex Hribal wasn't throwing punches - he was stabbing his victim in the belly, Moore said. The suspect got up and slashed Moore's face, then took off down the hall, where authorities said he stabbed and slashed other students in an attack that injured 21 students and a security guard - and might have been even worse but for the "heroes" who Pennsylvania's governor said helped prevent further injury or loss of life.


more


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 7:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Good ol' Lonewolf. Predictable as the sunrise.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 8:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Fortunately no one is expected to die, and while I haven't heard any numbers, many of the injuries were sustained in the rush to run away from the kid.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 10:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Apr. 10 2014, 6:34 am)
QUOTE
Good ol' Lonewolf. Predictable as the sunrise.

He's probably just yankin chains with the title of this thread. No rational person can fail to see the difference in the outcome of this incident if the assailant was armed with guns & ammunition.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 10:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why would anyone need a 8-10" knife anyway?

*can-opener sound*
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 10:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The assailant would have been shot if all the students had been allowed to be armed.

Uh...that means the assailant would have also been armed.

Never mind.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Apr. 10 2014, 10:04 am)
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No rational person can fail to see the difference in the outcome of this incident if the assailant was armed with guns & ammunition.

+1

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 11:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

PA does have "knife control"

QUOTE
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 12:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Apr. 10 2014, 10:04 am)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Apr. 10 2014, 6:34 am)
QUOTE
Good ol' Lonewolf. Predictable as the sunrise.

He's probably just yankin chains with the title of this thread. No rational person can fail to see the difference in the outcome of this incident if the assailant was armed with guns & ammunition.

Your first sentence is dependent upon a qualifier that doesn't apply with this poster.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 12:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Apr. 10 2014, 11:37 am)
QUOTE
PA does have "knife control"

QUOTE
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

They have knife penalties.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 1:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Apr. 10 2014, 11:37 am)
QUOTE
PA does have "knife control"

QUOTE
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

As do most schools, that have enacted the sort of zero tolerance rules that get children suspended and expelled for bringing so much as fingernail clippers to school.
Here, parents howled over such. We have a lot of farm kids and a small pocket knife was certainly no oddity. The compromise was to leave them in the office during the day, which was such an inconvenience most just stopped bringing. Most change clothes to do chores anyway, it really wasn't a big deal after all.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 8:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Apr. 10 2014, 10:37 am)
QUOTE
PA does have "knife control"

QUOTE
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

Good point!

But mossy has a good point too:
QUOTE
Why would anyone need a 8-10" knife anyway?


"Gun control" should be expanded to "offensive weapons control". Any blade more than 75 mm ( 3 inches ) should be illegal to sell without the purchaser passing a background check - the same background check that gun purchasers must pass. Only professional butchers would "need" a longer blade anyway.

This measure may not prevent ALL stabbings, but it might save lives by making the injuries less horrific.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 9:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Apr. 10 2014, 10:04 am)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Apr. 10 2014, 6:34 am)
QUOTE
Good ol' Lonewolf. Predictable as the sunrise.

He's probably just yankin chains with the title of this thread. No rational person can fail to see the difference in the outcome of this incident if the assailant was armed with guns & ammunition.

Several potential differences, although a stab wound is generally no less deadly than a gunshot wound....with either it is all about placement...the victims are lucky this kid did not know more about anatomy.

1. Nobody was killed because his gun jammed

2. The gun gets wrestled away from him because he got too close to his victims...less likely with a knife because grabbing the knife is painful  :)

3. less people injured because the first gunshot alerts everyone to the danger and they run. I would imagine that it took some time for everyone to realize what was happening....they pulled a fire alarm to help empty the building

In short...your statement is silly. Go ahead and pretend to know what might have happened if things were different. And keep believing the hype that guns are "hammers of death"...it might make you sleep better.

Recent events have well illustrated how dangerous knives are. If this kid had been aiming for arteries instead of stomachs there would have been few survivors if any

I am far too rational to believe I can predict a different past
:laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is without question far easier to disarm someone of a knife than it is a gun, period. It is also far easier to injure and kill far more people with a firearm than a knife, period. To argue that guns would not have likely been far deadlier in this instance is unequivocally irrational to put it kindly and deceitful to put if more truthfully.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Re: #13
Amorous relationships can cloud ones perceptions of reality and leave them believing they are actually thinking rationally.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 12:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Apr. 11 2014, 9:50 am)
QUOTE
It is without question far easier to disarm someone of a knife than it is a gun, period. It is also far easier to injure and kill far more people with a firearm than a knife, period. To argue that guns would not have likely been far deadlier in this instance is unequivocally irrational to put it kindly and deceitful to put if more truthfully.


Unfortunately, there are some people who practice with knives - just as there are some who practice with guns. So I am dubious of the statement that it is easier to disarm a trained person with a knife - unless you have a gun and simply shoot them.

Blades are DEADLY - just as guns are. So why not just expand existing "gun control" laws to cover knives too?

Preventing crazy people from getting offensive weapons, using the present computer technology and expanded universal background check laws, should be the priority I think.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 4:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

When's www going to start calling for smart knives?

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 5:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Apr. 11 2014, 1:36 pm)
QUOTE
When's www going to start calling for smart knives?

Light sabers look hi-tech enough a smart lightsaber should be easy enough.

In general my view it's a journey down the risk list. Like for getting a pilot's license or training license: some eyesight ,a pulse and little more and the FAA will let you get in a two seater puddle jumper or even easier a sailplane and plod away: and within a very short time let you do that on your own. NOT the same thing as the aircraft get larger and the amount of damage you can do get's bigger and bigger....
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 9:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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It is without question far easier to disarm someone of a knife than it is a gun, period.

Most police forces don't allow a knife wielder to close to less than 30' and self defense courses teach the same. If a gun is holstered, someone with a knife can cross that distance before a gun is drawn and use that knife. At less than 30', even armed with a gun, it's a given you will get stuck.

QUOTE
It is also far easier to injure and kill far more people with a firearm than a knife, period.

Not necessarily true. Someone with a knife in a crowd can easily slash and stab a far larger number of victims before the overall crowd knows what's going on than after the first shot from a gun.
You could be standing right next to someone with a knife who is killing the person next to you and you might not even realize why the victim fell down. And while you're looking down saying "Huh?", you get stabbed too.

QUOTE
To argue that guns would not have likely been far deadlier in this instance is unequivocally irrational to put it kindly and deceitful to put if more truthfully.

Wrong. Under current rules in virtually every school, once a gun is fired, everyone heads for cover and the school goes into lockdown, with potential victims behind locked doors. A person using a knife, as in this case, can attack many more victims (as has already said) before it becomes known an attacker is even in the building.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 9:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Like for getting a pilot's license or training license: some eyesight ,a pulse and little more and the FAA will let you get in a two seater puddle jumper

As someone with a private pilot's license, I can tell you it's rather more involved. Full medical check at maximum every 2 years. Vision checks for full color recognition. Annual flight reviews. Minimum hours of flight/month. And several more.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That must be horrific for you Montana. Having government interfere with your life like that. I say you should keep government out of the sky - fascists.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Apr. 11 2014, 9:22 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
It is without question far easier to disarm someone of a knife than it is a gun, period.

Most police forces don't allow a knife wielder to close to less than 30' and self defense courses teach the same. If a gun is holstered, someone with a knife can cross that distance before a gun is drawn and use that knife. At less than 30', even armed with a gun, it's a given you will get stuck.

QUOTE
It is also far easier to injure and kill far more people with a firearm than a knife, period.

Not necessarily true. Someone with a knife in a crowd can easily slash and stab a far larger number of victims before the overall crowd knows what's going on than after the first shot from a gun.
You could be standing right next to someone with a knife who is killing the person next to you and you might not even realize why the victim fell down. And while you're looking down saying "Huh?", you get stabbed too.

QUOTE
To argue that guns would not have likely been far deadlier in this instance is unequivocally irrational to put it kindly and deceitful to put if more truthfully.

Wrong. Under current rules in virtually every school, once a gun is fired, everyone heads for cover and the school goes into lockdown, with potential victims behind locked doors. A person using a knife, as in this case, can attack many more victims (as has already said) before it becomes known an attacker is even in the building.

I'm sorry. But what world are you living in. You have the evidence of what happens.. All too many times. Yet here you are theorizing how they are just the same.

It's like watching the thought process of a conservative Supreme Court justice at work.

Ignore all this real stuff that has actually happens and make up some theory to support your ideology.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe this will jog your memory.


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(Land Rover @ Apr. 11 2014, 8:06 pm)
QUOTE
That must be horrific for you Montana. Having government interfere with your life like that. I say you should keep government out of the sky - fascists.

Not at all because it's something I chose to do, knowing full well the regulations and requirements in advance.

In fact, I fully favor using the same requirements for a driver's license.
Minimum 40 hours training.
Full medical check, including a full vision check, at most every 24 months. More often for professional drivers.
Minimum monthly "behind the wheel" time to stay current.
Minimum currency requirements for night driving.ol
Minimum currency requirements to drive in populated areas (Class B) with Mode C transponders to be allowed in such areas.
ATC: Automotive (Air) Traffic Control:  Drivers must contact ATC  before entering such an area and maintain contact with a central control.
Minimum separations between vehicles.
Violation of any of these (and many others) would be an automatic operator's permit suspension and review by a civil board before being allowed to resume operations.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Ignore all this real stuff that has actually happens and make up some theory to support your ideology.

Ignoring that many other common tools/weapons can be just as deadly as guns in the right/wrong hands is delusional.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 10:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Apr. 11 2014, 6:25 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Like for getting a pilot's license or training license: some eyesight ,a pulse and little more and the FAA will let you get in a two seater puddle jumper

As someone with a private pilot's license, I can tell you it's rather more involved. Full medical check at maximum every 2 years. Vision checks for full color recognition. Annual flight reviews. Minimum hours of flight/month. And several more.

And the premise remains: as the size of the aircraft and potential outside damage increases so do the regulatory requirements.

i.  e. The actual point made in the portions of that post you found too inconvenient to leave in that quote.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2014, 12:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Apr. 10 2014, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Apr. 10 2014, 10:37 am)
QUOTE
PA does have "knife control"

QUOTE
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

Good point!

But mossy has a good point too:
QUOTE
Why would anyone need a 8-10" knife anyway?


"Gun control" should be expanded to "offensive weapons control". Any blade more than 75 mm ( 3 inches ) should be illegal to sell without the purchaser passing a background check - the same background check that gun purchasers must pass. Only professional butchers would "need" a longer blade anyway.

This measure may not prevent ALL stabbings, but it might save lives by making the injuries less horrific.

That's just it, he didn't use a weapon type knife but a couple from the family's kitchen. I know I have all sorts of knives in my kitchen I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of. Know it for a fact, that is exactly why my ex is my ex.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2014, 7:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
The actual point made in the portions of that post you found too inconvenient to leave in that quote.

The actual point being that since I didn't disagree with that part, I didn't find a need to quote and comment on it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2014, 7:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Misuse and abuse of common "tools". None are "accidents" but deliberate and careless and reckless actions of the operators.

Chicago commuter train crash, 1972: When the trains collided, the front car of the express train telescoped the rear car of the bilevel train, killing 45 people and injuring 332

KY, mid-80s: Drunk driver on the wrong side of the highway ran head-on into a bus  load of students. The bus caught fire, killing (IIRC) 28 kids and injuring several more but the drunk survived. Also IIRC, that driver only received 5 years for murdering 28 kids.

CA, 2 days ago:  2 drivers, 5 high school students and 3 chaperones were killed when a tour bus collided with a FedEx truck and burst into flames in Northern California


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2014, 10:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

But are guns still common tools? Something changed. There was never a time we didn't have guns in the house. Farmers, country dwellers, had guns... period. We all hunted extensively too, sometimes had to put an animal down, whatever. It was far more remarkable if you had a color TV, or later, a microwave. And we had none of this nonsense.

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