SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 1812345>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Am I missing something here?, Nevada Rancher vrs BLM< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
wycanislatrans Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2760
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 7:12 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.nydailynews.com/news....1751348

Rancher has 160 deeded acres and historical grazing rights. Rancher quits paying grazing fees. Rancher is told to remove his cattle from the public lands since grazing fees are not paid. Rancher refuses, after probably countless warnings BLM takes rancher's cattle that he refused to remove.

Why is anyone suprised by this? Really, am I missing something?

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlin....k9-dogs
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 7:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Two things - Decisions have consequences.  And Hannity's nothing if he's not consistent...
(referring to Hannity's brilliant interview with this guy)
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6721
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 8:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just more crazies going for suicide by Federal cop.

In the eyes of the wingnuts it is very much like a Buddhist monk burning himself to death as a form of protest of the illegal government power.

For some folks it seems to be the only road to martyrdom and fame.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 8:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Similar to income taxes, if you don't pay your grazing fees the feds tend to take notice.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
wycanislatrans Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2760
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 8:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Apr. 10 2014, 5:43 pm)
QUOTE
Two things - Decisions have consequences.  And Hannity's nothing if he's not consistent...
(referring to Hannity's brilliant interview with this guy)

And what was discussed in Hannity's interview for those of us that don't listen to Hannity?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 8:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wycanislatrans @ Apr. 10 2014, 5:19 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Apr. 10 2014, 5:43 pm)
QUOTE
Two things - Decisions have consequences.  And Hannity's nothing if he's not consistent...
(referring to Hannity's brilliant interview with this guy)

And what was discussed in Hannity's interview for those of us that don't listen to Hannity?

Link to clip.

Note: Just to be clear, my use of the word "brilliant" was sarcasm.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
SW Mtn backpacker Search for posts by this member.
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7294
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 9:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wycanislatrans @ Apr. 10 2014, 5:12 pm)
QUOTE
... Rancher quits paying grazing fees. Rancher is told to remove his cattle from the public lands since grazing fees are not paid. Rancher refuses, after probably countless warnings BLM takes rancher's cattle that he refused to remove...

Yeah, after numerous warnings what did the rancher expect?  Same with someone's car being towed except with much more warning.  

This will probably become a test to privatize most public lands in the west though.  Of course if auctioned the highest bidders wouldn't do anything with most of it, ... it will just be a trophy.  There's land owned by an oil company in the middle of scenic BLM desert about 2 hrs away, nothing happening on it for decades, ...  but the armed security guard will hold you until the sheriff comes  over.


--------------
Usually Southwest and then some.

In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7132
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 10:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That's a problem with historical BLM lands... families have been using them for over 100 years for a virtual nothing fee and decide they own it.

I was getting tags for a new(used) car I'd picked up and while waiting I saw several BLM parcels where the fees had not been paid that were up for auction. I commented to the clerk that I might decide to bid just to "open"  them up again and she got rather angry saying something very much like above... "It's been in their family for 125 years and you want to take it from them?!?".
Lady, it doesn't matter how long they've been on it. They don't own it!.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
wycanislatrans Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2760
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 10 2014, 11:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There certainly is a lot of uproar about this though and seems mostly sympathetic to the rancher. I honestly completely fail to see the logic. If these were private lands or even state owned lands and the owner failed to pay the grazing fees, yet left his cattle on there I doubt he would get the 20 plus years of warnings.

But the vocal majority seem to think this is some rights issue, I don't get it.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
Reminiscence Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4381
Joined: Sep. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 2:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For the record, I disagree with ANY cattle grazing in the Mojave desert. With what little feed exists there for native grazers, cattle certainly have no place in such a region.

--------------
"To be a friend of the Earth, you have to be an enemy of the people." -T.C. Boyle
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10930
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 5:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think that Mlw has nailed it. They've used the land for so long they actually do think they own it.

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10930
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 5:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What you're missing wycanislatrans, is their warped mentality.  I think that Mlw has nailed it. They've used the land for so long they actually do think they own it.

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7132
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2014, 7:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
But the vocal majority seem to think this is some rights issue, I don't get it.

The old Homestead Act said anyone using and improving filed upon land acquired deed to that improved land, usually 160 aces (¼ section) after 5 years. So many of these ranching families have been using the same lands for so many years, many/most of them (probably) believe they now own it by right of use and possession, possibly thinking putting up fences and windmills and cleaning out waterholes counts as improving.
2 things: doing those things wouldn't count as "improvements" under the HA and the other is the kicker... they never legally filed on each ¼ section but they couldn't have anyway on those particular lands even if they wanted to.

Historical note:
Many of the large ranches that were built in the late 1880s acquired access to huge tracts under the Homestead Act by the ones with money hiring several range riders who would file on sections with water and build line cabins (a legal improvement). After the 5 years, the head boss would "buy" the deed, usually by simply keeping the guy on the payroll.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2269
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2014, 3:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montanalonewolf
QUOTE
The old Homestead Act said anyone using and improving filed upon land acquired deed to that improved land, usually 160 aces (¼ section) after 5 years. So many of these ranching families have been using the same lands for so many years, many/most of them (probably) believe they now own it by right of use and possession, possibly thinking putting up fences and windmills and cleaning out waterholes counts as improving.


Thanks. It makes more sense now.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7132
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2014, 11:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Update

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
gunslinger Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6409
Joined: Mar. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 6:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Milita?

Looks like there will be no Ruby Ridge or Waco in Nevada.


--------------
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
TDale Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15493
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 7:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.infowars.com/breakin....y-ranch

--------------
"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7132
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 8:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've seen several people "down there" quoted as saying federal lands (in NV) should be "returned to the state" because the feds took the land from the state.

They're missing (or more probably ignoring) a very critical and important fact. The feds didn't take the lands from the state of NV. The feds took the lands from the Indians BEFORE Nevada ever even existed as a state. What private lands NV does have were granted to NV after it became a state.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
tarol Search for posts by this member.
Well I never!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11171
Joined: Mar. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 10:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So much mis-information out there...

To all the folks that think the rancher is some kind of patriot and are vowing to go join him to fight with their guns - go ahead. Go fight over a bunch of cows.  Blame it on Obama.

They're blaming the first amendment areas on Obama - guess what?  It was actually under George W. that their use was greatly expanded.  And it was the courts that decided that the agencies could use them.  

Anyway, the BLM has tried for 20 years to work with the guy.  They no doubt thought it was a no-win situation.  Then they got sued by environmentalists, so they had to ramp it up.  So then everyone thinks that the BLM is some kind of evil government agency who does this all the time.  Uh, no.  Most ranchers pay the fees, which are very low.

And environmentalists think the BLM is spine-less.  Uh, no.  Somewhere in between, is probably the most accurate description.  Govt agencies will always try to solve problems at the lowest levels.  They don't immediately go the law enforcement way.  Believe it or not they do value the lives of their LEO's.  But, yes they do have LEO's.

I heard someone comment that why would BLM need LEO's?  lol lol lol  Has the public no idea of what happens on federal lands?  Everything that happens on private, folks.  Murders, drugs, kidnappings, rape, stolen cars, dumped bodies, etc.  Of course they need armed rangers.  As do FWS, NPS, and USFS.

The rancher who's family has had cows out on that land since the late 1800's - back then it was a little wetter and cooler and no doubt the rangeland was better.  Now it's getting hotter and dryer and I'm sure it doesn't support as many cows as it once did.  So they're struggling.  And probably resistant to any change, because of family tradition and love for the land.  Okay...  wish everything stayed the same.  But it doesn't.  The family does need to adapt or move.  

I heard the family was willing to pay the fees, but they wanted to pay it to the state instead.  So maybe there could be a land exchange.  BLM gives the state this land, the state gives the BLM some other land elsewhere.  Everyone's happy???

Anyway, I just wish that people would work with instead of against the government.  I wish people would study history and have more appreciation for land management agencies that, no they aren't perfect, but without them we certainly would not have the great swaths of public land that are still usable today.  

Remember the Dust Bowl??

If you have any better ideas on how to manage public lands, please get involved in the planning process.  All lands have land management plans, and there is the opportunity for public comment and participation.


--------------
Got elevation? www.tarol.com
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 20
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5282
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 10:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

From what I have read, the grazing fees started in 1993 as a tax to discourage ranchers from using the land supposedly to protect some tortoises.

Sounds like his concern is/has been over that new tax


--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
tarol Search for posts by this member.
Well I never!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11171
Joined: Mar. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 10:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Uh, no, grazing fees have been around longer than that

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html


--------------
Got elevation? www.tarol.com
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 22
tarol Search for posts by this member.
Well I never!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11171
Joined: Mar. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 12:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think the public at large doesn't understand the history of public lands...

"Federal holding of public lands was originally an accident of history. Among the first pieces of legislation passed under the U.S. Constitution was the Northwest Ordinance, which was designed to dispose of lands the federal government held after state claims were conceded in the Northwest Territories (now Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana).

In order to encourage settlement of western lands, Congress passed the Morrell Act in 1862, granting parcels in 40-acre (160,000 m2) increments to homesteaders who could maintain a living on land for a period of time. Congress also made huge land grants to various railroads working to complete a transcontinental rail system. Much of these latter grants intentionally included mineral and timber-rich lands so that the railroads could get financing to build. Again, the hypothesis was that the railroads would sell off the land to get money.

Ultimately, however, it turned out that much land west of the Missouri River was too wild for homesteading because of mountainous terrain or lack of available water. By the early 20th century, the federal government held significant portions of most western states that had simply not been claimed for any use. Conservationists prevailed upon President Theodore Roosevelt to set aside lands for forest preservation and for special scientific or natural history interest. Much land still remained unclaimed even after such reserves were initially set up. The Department of the Interior held millions of acres in the western states (with Arizona and New Mexico joining the union by 1913). President Hoover proposed to deed these lands to the states in 1932, but the states complained that the lands had been overgrazed and would, in other ways, impose a burden on cash-strapped state budgets. The Bureau of Land Management was created to manage much of that land."

From the Wikipedia page on the Sagebrush Rebellion


--------------
Got elevation? www.tarol.com
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 23
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6721
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 12:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Grazing fees, as pitifully low as they are, have been here since the BLM was establlished and all the ranchers know that perfectly well.  Most of them belong to grazing associations formed around the BLM and USFS lands that they graze upon, and they pay the fees every year.

This nutcase decided to quit paying them in 1993 as a way to declare his right wingnut claim of not having to pay Federal taxes, plus it does increase his net profits and diminishes proper oversight of his grazing practices.

Why they did not stop him right then is a mystery to me, and we are seeing the result of that kind of lax law enforcement by the Feds.

Maybe this will turn into a real opportunity for the militias to test their combat capabilities against Federal forces!  Maybe we really are going to have that kind of insanity, again, on US soil.  I just hope that the brain dead leaders of that nonsense are there to be killed, maybe tamp down the rhetoric for a while.

Has anyone seen a movement by conservation groups to oppose this ripoff on public land?  I would like to join an effort like that.

Federal officials said that  BLM enforcement agents were dispatched in response to statements Bundy made which they perceived as threats.

“When threats are made that could jeopardize the safety of the American people, the contractors and our personnel; we have the responsibility to provide law enforcement to account for their safety,” National Park Service spokeswoman Christie Vanover said to reporters Sunday.

The land issue allegedly began after Bundy stopped paying grazing fees in 1993. He said he didn't have to because his Mormon ancestors worked the land since the 1880s, giving him rights to the land.


http://www.foxnews.com/us....th-feds

A non-Faux source:

Environmentalists argue that the cattle steal food away from tortoises, smash rare plants and slow down the regrowth of fire-damaged vegetation. Their numbers should be kept in check, the land advocates say.
The case is the latest flourish of the civil disobedience popularized during the 1970s Sagebrush Rebellion, a movement that sought greater local control in 12 Western states where the federal government administers 60% of the land.  



http://www.latimes.com/nation....mmATUxQ


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
mtnsteve Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2414
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Apr. 13 2014, 7:53 am)
QUOTE
From what I have read, the grazing fees started in 1993 as a tax to discourage ranchers from using the land supposedly to protect some tortoises.

Sounds like his concern is/has been over that new tax

Where in the world do you get your news/information  ???

Oh yeah, FOX news and any other extremist right wing news site that caters to the American Taliban.

Give it back to the Native Americans, they are the only ones with a legal right to own it.


--------------
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."
Helen Keller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 25
tarol Search for posts by this member.
Well I never!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11171
Joined: Mar. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 1:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More on the grazing fee...

So, it was extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986

You know, that would be Ronald Reagan, acting without congress, and issuing an executive order

Just another bit of irony in the whole situation


--------------
Got elevation? www.tarol.com
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 26
tarol Search for posts by this member.
Well I never!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11171
Joined: Mar. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 1:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, I support giving it back to the Native Americans

Or the tortoise, and jackrabbits, lizards, cactus and creosote who were there before them


--------------
Got elevation? www.tarol.com
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 27
mtnsteve Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2414
Joined: May 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 1:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I would like to thank the Feds and their well trained people for having the courage to do the right thing and back off for the moment. If it makes the terrorists think they won that's ok, Al Capone thought he won before the Feds arrested him for tax evasion.

I know people who were there and I quote... "we were a hair trigger away from a bloodbath."


--------------
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."
Helen Keller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 28
tarol Search for posts by this member.
Well I never!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11171
Joined: Mar. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 1:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, the feds didn't cave, this was a tactical withdrawal

--------------
Got elevation? www.tarol.com
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 29
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6721
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Much as it frustrates me to see celebrating by the gun nuts, I totally agree that this was the correct tactical move and it will be much more effective to take direct actions with personal arrests, and if need be the use of overwhelming force, as was done in enforcing school integration in the deep south in the 60's.

This is the kind of action that should have been taken at Ruby Ridge and at Waco.  

Slow and frustrating for now, but  ultimately the correct path to lawful, non-lethal law enforcement.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
Gabby Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6333
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 13 2014, 2:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I guess this isn't all that bad - only a "trinity" of persons with their heads firmly up their derrieres.

Please do yourselves a favor, you three, and get your news from some place other than Alex Jones (Infowars) or Fox News.

Mr. Jones hails from my whereabouts (he started on a local public access cable channel here in Austin, in fact, so I've seen him and even talked to him at least once - he's certifiable: trust me on this - bat$hit crazy).

Fox News, which I watch occasionally just to see what they're doing, is a joke not much worse than the caricatures you see on "The Daily Show". They really are that bad - repeating the same canned anti-Obama lines on every show and attempting (in the case of this non-issue, for instance) to exploit every potential "anti-government" situation. For God's sake, they're still harping on Benghazi and the "IRS scandal", long after those events were shown to be concoctions of pseudo-fact.

An example: If you didn't see Laura Ingraham subbing for Bill O'Reilly last Friday, you missed a great illustration of where Fox (and, admittedly, most of the other "reporting" on TV) has gone in the last few years, post Glenn Beck. Ms. Ingraham had two successive guests who completely blindsided her on issues she was trying to cover in segments of the show. I was thinking it was a setup by O'Reilly for comic effect: she was so flustered at one point she just about lost it completely. Comedic.

At least the "liberal channels" usually handle guests "from the other side" more adeptly and intelligently. As I understand it, reality has a liberal bias, so it's probably easier for them.

Tarol has it right. She apparently has actually spent some time studying the relevant history, and her assessment of the future, in light of changing climate and greater pressure on these folk, is, IMHO, absolutely accurate.

MLW's assessment accurately portrays, again IMHO, the kind of mindset and misapprehension of historical relationships that we also have here in Texas with the "ranching community". People "grow into" long term arrangements like this, and therefore forget how it came to be. This is why, I suspect, that ornate tribal ceremonies re-enacting the appropriate exchanges of symbolic "rights" are such are a good thing - to insure that those involved "get it" and don't forget how it all started. Maybe the Western states need an annual ceremony commemorating (and documenting) the "land transfer" process instead of an inconsequential exchange of "grazing fees". Might be difficult now, though, ya think?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
516 replies since Apr. 10 2014, 7:12 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 1812345>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Am I missing something here?
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions