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Topic: NY Assault rifle ban, More "common sense"< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 3:29 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, emotionally motivated cosmetic changes = Common sense legislation

Nonsense like this destroys any credibility of the fear mongering anti-gun crowd. The absurdity of desiring to ban a rifle, simply because it has a pistol grip, does far more to discredit the anti-gun movement than the NRA could ever hope to accomplish on its own. Ignore that rifles are responsible for very few murders, ignore that there are no functional differences…in fact, ignore ALL AVAILABLE DATA….We are too ignorant to digest the data, it is scary, and it is only “common sense” that it should be banned!

“For example, Gunn Barrett said a forward-leaning pistol grip might give a mass shooter better control over his rifle.
.
"The gun is still lethal,” Gunn Barrett said. “Yes, it can still kill people. But it is not as easy to manipulate and fire accurately than it would be if you had a forward-leaning pistol grip."”

This dimwit thinks that reducing a shooters control over their rifle makes US safer?

Seriously, what if it were Republicans spouting this nonsense?

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investi....61.html
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 3:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh, I agree with your sentiment, but you won't find my solutions any more appealing.

If it was totally up to me, I would eliminate all handguns simply based on their ability to be concealed.  I would require all shotguns to be breech load, and all non-military rifles to be single shot bolt action.  Further, I would require all firearms to be at least 30 inches in length.

Just my opinion on reducing gun deaths.  


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I disagree with your solution 100%, but at least your opinion can be respected.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 3:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The SAFE Act was debated for 30 minutes.

Yesterday, NY passed legislation that made yogurt the official snack of NYS. It was debated for 44 minutes.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 4:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That's a laugh.

People who own guns are the ones who are the fear-mongers. What are they so afraid of that they feel the need to be armed every time they leave the house. It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.

Don't live your life in fear. Pay attention and use your wits. Those will save your life a lot more often than carrying a gun.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 4:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.


So, you agree that further firearm restrictions cannot be justified by the current level of violence in our society?
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 4:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've sort of always objected to any aesthetic criteria for firearm regulation.

A lot of these hot button issues suffer the same fate: when anything has a chance of passing the writing goes the "kitchen sink" approach, cramming that one narrow opportunity with meaningful things such as background checks and silliness such as "ugly gun" bans in the fear that's the only bite of the apple they're going to get.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 5:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ May 08 2014, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE
That's a laugh.

People who own guns are the ones who are the fear-mongers. What are they so afraid of that they feel the need to be armed every time they leave the house. It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.

Don't live your life in fear. Pay attention and use your wits. Those will save your life a lot more often than carrying a gun.

Let me see.... With that logic, I am going to:

Stop wearing my seat belt
Remove my fire extinguishers
Remove fire alarms from my home
Remove the locks from my doors
Remove my auto-kill from the ATV
Ask to remove metal detectors from airports
Ask all police stop carrying firearms
etc...

Oh, and I will be getting a defib next month. Thanks HFBA!


That NY Snack debate was so bad, I thought it was a joke. When you watch that, you will realize our politicians have failed us. "What is you dip a pretzel into the yogurt... what then will be the state snack???" LIKE OMG!!!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 6:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ May 08 2014, 12:29 pm)
QUOTE
So, emotionally motivated cosmetic changes = Common sense legislation

Nonsense like this destroys any credibility of the fear mongering anti-gun crowd. The absurdity of desiring to ban a rifle, simply because it has a pistol grip, does far more to discredit the anti-gun movement than the NRA could ever hope to accomplish on its own. Ignore that rifles are responsible for very few murders, ignore that there are no functional differences…in fact, ignore ALL AVAILABLE DATA….We are too ignorant to digest the data, it is scary, and it is only “common sense” that it should be banned!

“For example, Gunn Barrett said a forward-leaning pistol grip might give a mass shooter better control over his rifle.
.
"The gun is still lethal,” Gunn Barrett said. “Yes, it can still kill people. But it is not as easy to manipulate and fire accurately than it would be if you had a forward-leaning pistol grip."”

This dimwit thinks that reducing a shooters control over their rifle makes US safer?

Seriously, what if it were Republicans spouting this nonsense?

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investi....61.html

I support many reasonable regulations to firearms ownership.  But I must admit that regulating firearms based purely on cosmetics has questionable value.

But at the same time, cosmetics are a two-way street.  Looks matter and the military lookalikes are extremely popular even though they are essentially the same as other (non-military) models.  Marketing these lookalikes just feeds the unhealthy obsession with firearms that is so prevalent in our country.  And IMO, it's the obsession with firearms that's the bigger problem, not the guns themselves.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 6:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ May 08 2014, 5:01 pm)
QUOTE

(desert dweller @ May 08 2014, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE
That's a laugh.

People who own guns are the ones who are the fear-mongers. What are they so afraid of that they feel the need to be armed every time they leave the house. It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.

Don't live your life in fear. Pay attention and use your wits. Those will save your life a lot more often than carrying a gun.

Let me see.... With that logic, I am going to:

Stop wearing my seat belt
Remove my fire extinguishers
Remove fire alarms from my home
Remove the locks from my doors
Remove my auto-kill from the ATV
Ask to remove metal detectors from airports
Ask all police stop carrying firearms
etc...

Oh, and I will be getting a defib next month. Thanks HFBA!


That NY Snack debate was so bad, I thought it was a joke. When you watch that, you will realize our politicians have failed us. "What is you dip a pretzel into the yogurt... what then will be the state snack???" LIKE OMG!!!

No that's not the same logic at all. False analogies usually aren't
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 7:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ May 08 2014, 2:01 pm)
QUOTE
Oh, and I will be getting a defib next month. Thanks HFBA!

Cool.
Statistically you'll have a much greater chance of needing an AED before a firearm to help save a loved one.  And unlike a firearm, essentially no chances of being accidentally killed by it or it being used against you or a loved one.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You can have my NERF rocket launcher when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ May 08 2014, 7:01 pm)
QUOTE
You can have my NERF rocket launcher when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

+1

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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ May 08 2014, 9:04 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ May 08 2014, 7:01 pm)
QUOTE
You can have my NERF rocket launcher when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

+1

Thank You!

I'm here once a week.

Y'all deserve less.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the gun owning community continues to follow the NRA lead and stonewall every sensible, intelligent, well designed improvement to gun safety, you can expect a lot more of this kind of thing, only much worse.

The refusal to make changes that make sense to the majority of Americans will eventually lead to great loss of our gun rights, that is how democracy works.

The boy with his finger in the tiny leak in the dam can hold out for a little while, but eventually the weight of all that voter water will overwhelm him, and we will all be the losers then.

Support improvement of safety features, help and encourage the development of smart guns, contribute to gun safety laws which make good sense and actually work, instead of whining about the stupidity that comes from stonewalling!  Please

What a country!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What a country!

Where the criminals observe the gun laws, EVERYDAY!

\o/

Where the criminal's seconds away and the police minutes, EVERYDAY!

\o/

Celebrate, celebrate!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You bet, TD, criminals observe ALL the laws, doncha know?

If we just get rid of all those laws and quit trying to educate and influence every citizen to comply with the laws, utopia will finally be here.

Excellent way to have a safe and healthy life, neh?   :p


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 9:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

PEW PEW PEW

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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 10:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

TDale, what you drinking tonight?
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 10:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've mentioned this before.
I have 2 shotguns that are the same make and model and are identical in operation and function but only look different. The parts can even be exchanged between the 2.
The difference is one has a pistol grip, adjustable stock and single point sling. Under some laws, that one is classed as an "assault weapon" while the other is perfectly acceptable although they are exactly the same except for appearance.

Stupid.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 11:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 08 2014, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE
I've mentioned this before.
I have 2 shotguns that are the same make and model and are identical in operation and function but only look different. The parts can even be exchanged between the 2.
The difference is one has a pistol grip, adjustable stock and single point sling. Under some laws, that one is classed as an "assault weapon" while the other is perfectly acceptable although they are exactly the same except for appearance.

Stupid.

This is the kind of thinking that comes from shutting oneself off from society and not living in the real world. Rules have to be enforceable or they are useless. Sometimes it's necessary to make rules that seem arbitrary but are about the ability to enforce them in a reasonable manner. For instance, if you tell third graders they can't run in the hall, that's to avoid chaos of having thirty third graders all running in the hall at the same time. A third grader coming back from the bathroom might run down the hall and make the argument that it wasn't hurting anything, and would be right about that. But it would make it vastly more difficult for a teacher to enforce the rule if she had to make a decision on an individual basis so instead there is a general rule of no running in the hall. The same is true with firearms laws.  If assault weapons have a certain look and are readily identifiable by that look, then someone comes along and makes a non-assault rifle look the same way, it makes it tougher to enforce the law against the actual assault weapons because now law enforcement has to become an expert on every single modification to know whether or not a weapon is illegal or not.  

Grown ups can understand these kinds of things. A third grader might not be able to.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2014, 11:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ May 08 2014, 1:18 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.


So, you agree that further firearm restrictions cannot be justified by the current level of violence in our society?

The "level of violence" is propagated by the media and encouraged by special interest groups which are backed by corporations whose only motive is profit.

Here is a run down of the "threats of violence" I have had and still do encounter.

I backpack, alone, within a few miles of the border with Mexico. And have for 35 years. Never once carried a gun.

I walk and ride a bicycle in those scary neighborhoods full of scary Mexicans, at night. Never once felt the need to carry a gun.

I camp and hike in bear and big cat country. Not to mention all the rattlesnakes. Oh my God, they could have been Mexican rattlesnakes. Illegal Mexican rattlesnakes! Never once felt the need to carry.

I see migrants in the backcountry. I've come across bandits 6 miles from the Border. I handled myself and the situation without problem and walked away. Never once felt the need to carry a gun.

My two biggest fears in the wilderness? Bees and drunk hunters. I've come across both. A gun wouldn't have helped in either situation.

Again I ask. What are all you guys afraid of?


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(HighGravity @ May 08 2014, 11:26 pm)
QUOTE
If assault weapons have a certain look and are readily identifiable by that look, then someone comes along and makes a non-assault rifle look the same way, it makes it tougher to enforce the law against the actual assault weapons because now law enforcement has to become an expert on every single modification to know whether or not a weapon is illegal or not.  

Grown ups can understand these kinds of things. A third grader might not be able to.


"Living in the real world?"  Really?  You call this drivel an example of living in the real world?  REALLY??!!!

Real world fact one.  That's a HUGE "if".  And a false one.  Assault rifles simply do not have "a certain look" and they are NOT "readily identifiable by that look."

Real world fact two.  Kids running in the hallway are readily identifable.  No one, not even HG, would dream of identifying kids running in the hallway as kids wearing running shoes, or kids wearing running shorts, or kids wearing sweat bands, or any other cosmetic description.

Given the above facts, can you define an assault rifle without resorting to cosmetics?

If not, does an assault rifle really exist?
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(desert dweller @ May 08 2014, 11:41 pm)
QUOTE

(markinOhio @ May 08 2014, 1:18 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.


So, you agree that further firearm restrictions cannot be justified by the current level of violence in our society?

The "level of violence" is propagated by the media and encouraged by special interest groups which are backed by corporations whose only motive is profit.

Here is a run down of the "threats of violence" I have had and still do encounter.

I backpack, alone, within a few miles of the border with Mexico. And have for 35 years. Never once carried a gun.

I walk and ride a bicycle in those scary neighborhoods full of scary Mexicans, at night. Never once felt the need to carry a gun.

I camp and hike in bear and big cat country. Not to mention all the rattlesnakes. Oh my God, they could have been Mexican rattlesnakes. Illegal Mexican rattlesnakes! Never once felt the need to carry.

I see migrants in the backcountry. I've come across bandits 6 miles from the Border. I handled myself and the situation without problem and walked away. Never once felt the need to carry a gun.

My two biggest fears in the wilderness? Bees and drunk hunters. I've come across both. A gun wouldn't have helped in either situation.

Again I ask. What are all you guys afraid of?

What are people afraid of?  Here's a few:

Some people are afraid of citizens with guns.  Attempting to limit access to guns provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some peole are afraid of people obsessed with guns and the gun culture.  Attempting to limit access to guns provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of guns themselves.  Attempting to ban guns altogether provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of "bad guys".  A gun provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of an oppressive government.  Having a gun, and ensuring as many other citizens as possible have a gun provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of being caught unprepared.  A gun provides a certain level of preparedness, independent of the probability of ever needing it.

Some people like to feel secure in their persons and property (fourth amendment).  A gun provides some people that sense of  security.

Some people like to shoot.  It's a relaxing hobby.

Some people are employed in professions that require them to be armed.  For them a gun is a necessary tool.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 7:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A forward leaning pistol grip....what the F is that?

Most of the one's I've seen lean back.  How would you manage to use such a thing?



And this from a man named "Gunn".  I think he should be legally forced to change his name to something less threatening.
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(KenV @ May 09 2014, 3:08 am)
QUOTE
Real world fact one.  That's a HUGE "if".  And a false one.  Assault rifles simply do not have "a certain look" and they are NOT "readily identifiable by that look."

So you're calling lonewolf a liar huh
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(KenV @ May 09 2014, 12:30 am)
QUOTE

(desert dweller @ May 08 2014, 11:41 pm)
QUOTE

(markinOhio @ May 08 2014, 1:18 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
It's not the big-bad world out there that most Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed about.


So, you agree that further firearm restrictions cannot be justified by the current level of violence in our society?

The "level of violence" is propagated by the media and encouraged by special interest groups which are backed by corporations whose only motive is profit.

Here is a run down of the "threats of violence" I have had and still do encounter.

I backpack, alone, within a few miles of the border with Mexico. And have for 35 years. Never once carried a gun.

I walk and ride a bicycle in those scary neighborhoods full of scary Mexicans, at night. Never once felt the need to carry a gun.

I camp and hike in bear and big cat country. Not to mention all the rattlesnakes. Oh my God, they could have been Mexican rattlesnakes. Illegal Mexican rattlesnakes! Never once felt the need to carry.

I see migrants in the backcountry. I've come across bandits 6 miles from the Border. I handled myself and the situation without problem and walked away. Never once felt the need to carry a gun.

My two biggest fears in the wilderness? Bees and drunk hunters. I've come across both. A gun wouldn't have helped in either situation.

Again I ask. What are all you guys afraid of?

What are people afraid of?  Here's a few:

Some people are afraid of citizens with guns.  Attempting to limit access to guns provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some peole are afraid of people obsessed with guns and the gun culture.  Attempting to limit access to guns provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of guns themselves.  Attempting to ban guns altogether provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of "bad guys".  A gun provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of an oppressive government.  Having a gun, and ensuring as many other citizens as possible have a gun provides a certain level of comfort for them.

Some people are afraid of being caught unprepared.  A gun provides a certain level of preparedness, independent of the probability of ever needing it.

Some people like to feel secure in their persons and property (fourth amendment).  A gun provides some people that sense of  security.

Some people like to shoot.  It's a relaxing hobby.

Some people are employed in professions that require them to be armed.  For them a gun is a necessary tool.

First of all, I'm not against owning firearms at all. In fact, I'm all for it.

My point is that it appears that the overwhelming reason most feel the need to carry at all times is an unfounded fear of...something. I think this fear has been forced into our society. Media automatically will put on the front page all acts of violence either locally or nationally. That is because it is the violence which will sell.

Proportional to population, the amount of violence really hasn't increased. It is just that more of it is being reported and glorified.

Don't label me as an anti-gun nut. I would own one if I felt the need to have one. I just won't buy into the fear-industry.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 12:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Desert Dweller, your brain and b*lls are just a little too big for you to be credible.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ May 09 2014, 9:44 am)
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Desert Dweller, your brain and b*lls are just a little too big for you to be credible.

I'll take that as a compliment whether it was meant as one or not.

Nothing I've said is untrue.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 12:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

You took it correctly.

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