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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 7:25 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So rumor-mill has it that Clive Bundys 'militia' is now doing road blocks and checking people to see if they are illegal aliens.

So I wonder what would happen if I pull up to such a road block with a group wearing their role playing military costumes.

Raz: what do you want?

Captain Sparky: we need to see your identification.

Raz: why?

Captain Sparky: we are checking for illegal aliens.

Raz: are you the police or ICE?

Captain Sparky: no, we are not.

Raz: F off..........and get out of my way.

Now if I start to drive off, what do you think this people do?

Wish me a safe trip or start shooting at me because I refuse to play along?


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 9:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"An inadvertent discharge of my personal protection firearm punctured their tire.  I paid for the service call."

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 9:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

TDale stands with the miscreants. Damage to property as well as unlawful stops and brandishing firearms. Freedom denied by people that call themselves patriots.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not to mention assault with a deadly weapon.

Under Montana law Raz would probably be able to kill the shooter and it would be self defense!!

What a country!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 11:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lots of silly people in this world that do things for strange, twisted reasons.
Then you have the people who support them, because they find it necessary to toe a party line on everything down to paper or plastic at the grocery store.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 11:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's against the law to detain anyone, illegal or not, for any reason even though they be on your property. (Law enforcement, of course, is the exception.) A rancher in southern Arizona lost his entire ranch for holding Border crossers at gunpoint. The migrants got his ranch.

If the bozos with Bundy try it, he could lose everything.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 12:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ May 09 2014, 5:25 am)
QUOTE
So rumor-mill has it that Clive Bundys 'militia' is now doing road blocks and checking people to see if they are illegal aliens.

So I wonder what would happen if I pull up to such a road block with a group wearing their role playing military costumes.

Raz: what do you want?

Captain Sparky: we need to see your identification.

Raz: why?

Captain Sparky: we are checking for illegal aliens.

Raz: are you the police or ICE?

Captain Sparky: no, we are not.

Raz: F off..........and get out of my way.

Now if I start to drive off, what do you think this people do?

Wish me a safe trip or start shooting at me because I refuse to play along?


I had heard they were doing something like this several days ago but nothing since as Clark Cty was being pressed to stop it.  The area has major casinos on the Utah line around Mesquite and heaven forbid the spousal unit find out the Jr.s BYU money was being spent on slots ...

Add that there's more carjackings and approaching any vehicle armed with no police markings can be deadly ... CarJacking related Shootings on Bouder Highway not related to Bundy (Las Vegas News).  There's a lot of armed people out there, folks.(though I must say, most militia types I see are overweight, sitting under an umbrella in the border sun - posing a danger only to nearby Twinkie's and 64 oz fountain drinks)

Then there's running them over.   You do not approach my vehicle with a weapon and no police uniform considering I'm usually speeding in my SUV 20 mph over the speed limit or so (Italian genes ... when I see Chevy Suburban, I think big Ferrari).   How do I know they aren't meth heads or bandits?

Also, ... considering I'm probably messing with my iTunes/radio interface and adjusting playlists, you may not want to be on the road anyways - my last act as a biology grad student was inadvertedly running over a rare snake as another grad student was trying to route me around it at 50 mph (had to find another field) .  long story short: I'm usually concentrated on the beverage or playlist in my cab despite my better nature.

I'd hate to end someone's militia career because the Bangle's "Walk like an Egyptian" unexpectedly played instead of the Damned's "New Rose" ..  Yeah, I know, public safety but some things just can't wait for the vehicle to stop...


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 2:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd thought that too. Who stops?
If there is one place in particular you wouldn't want to threaten me, it's with me behind the wheel. We grew up driving demo derbies, my dad was a stock car driver of some renown. Guess who taught me how to drive. My truck is a nimble little thing. I won't miss.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 3:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(star @ May 09 2014, 12:31 pm)
QUOTE
I'd thought that too. Who stops?
If there is one place in particular you wouldn't want to threaten me, it's with me behind the wheel.

About to say, we've all seen Deliverance , .. I'm driving straight through.  :D  

Not like I haven't had deer blood on my vehicle's bumper before .... at least I think it was deer blood   :O


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 3:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ May 09 2014, 6:35 am)
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"An inadvertent discharge of my personal protection firearm punctured their tire.  I paid for the service call."

Care to expound on that thought T?

Or are we left to assume you'd prefer to see warlords over than the rule of law?
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 5:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ May 09 2014, 8:35 am)
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"An inadvertent discharge of my personal protection firearm punctured their tire.  I paid for the service call."

So lets guess how laws were broken before your idol uttered such a stupid excuse.

Even though they have no legal right to be stopping people, you think such a statement would justify shooting at me in my vehicle?

Interesting.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 5:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SW Mtn backpacker @ May 09 2014, 11:21 am)
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I had heard they were doing something like this several days ago but nothing since as Clark Cty was being pressed to stop it.  The area has major casinos on the Utah line around Mesquite and heaven forbid the spousal unit find out the Jr.s BYU money was being spent on slots ...

Add that there's more carjackings and approaching any vehicle armed with no police markings can be deadly ... CarJacking related Shootings on Bouder Highway not related to Bundy (Las Vegas News).  There's a lot of armed people out there, folks.(though I must say, most militia types I see are overweight, sitting under an umbrella in the border sun - posing a danger only to nearby Twinkie's and 64 oz fountain drinks)

Then there's running them over.   You do not approach my vehicle with a weapon and no police uniform considering I'm usually speeding in my SUV 20 mph over the speed limit or so (Italian genes ... when I see Chevy Suburban, I think big Ferrari).   How do I know they aren't meth heads or bandits?

Also, ... considering I'm probably messing with my iTunes/radio interface and adjusting playlists, you may not want to be on the road anyways - my last act as a biology grad student was inadvertedly running over a rare snake as another grad student was trying to route me around it at 50 mph (had to find another field) .  long story short: I'm usually concentrated on the beverage or playlist in my cab despite my better nature.

I'd hate to end someone's militia career because the Bangle's "Walk like an Egyptian" unexpectedly played instead of the Damned's "New Rose" ..  Yeah, I know, public safety but some things just can't wait for the vehicle to stop...

I didnt post any links because I wasnt too sure that they were doing this.

I wonder what people would think if it was a gang of african americans or native americans doing these roadblocks?


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 5:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

desert dweller
QUOTE
It's against the law to detain anyone, illegal or not, for any reason even though they be on your property. (Law enforcement, of course, is the exception.) A rancher in southern Arizona lost his entire ranch for holding Border crossers at gunpoint. The migrants got his ranch.

If the bozos with Bundy try it, he could lose everything.


Not exactly. In most states, businesses, communities, and private citizens often hire their own private police and these bodyguards, security guards, etc. often detain and handcuff suspected shoplifters, trespassers, etc. Often these private cops do not wear uniforms, but usually they wear uniforms with badges, patches, etc that look as much like the public police as possible. They usually carry the identical sidearm as the local police too.

From Wikipedia :

In South Carolina, all Security Officers have the same authority and power as Sheriff Deputies. Spring Valley HOA in Columbia, SC is a good example of this. Private Officers respond to calls for service, make arrests and use blue lights[9] and traffic radar. They are Law Enforcement under state law, case law and AG’s opinion, and are authorized by the state to issue Uniform Traffic Tickets to violators. Security Officers in some cases are also considered Police Officers.

America has a long tradition of private police forces and perhaps the Pinkerton Agency is perhaps the best known private police force. Their fame goes as far back as tracking down western outlaws like Jesse James, the Reno Gang, and the Wild Bunch (including Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid).

I doubt that it is illegal for private police to stop traffic and request ID on a Nevada public road or highway since in most states with wealthy real estate developments suburbs they have been doing that for years. Examples from Wikinut :

"South Carolina (Sea Pines and Hilton Head), Virginia (Aquia Harbor), Oregon (Sun River), Tennessee (Fairfield Glade), and Pennsylvania (Poconos) suggest that their security forces remain privately controlled, paid, and attired, but are court sworn with the full capacity to arrest, search, and seize."

In Tennessee's Fairfield Glade, the private police often issue speeding tickets, DWI's, etc and randomly stop vehicles in order to check the driver's license and proof of insurance - and also to question the motorist on why they driving on the public road through the development. I am sure that they would have no problem setting up roadblocks if they wanted to.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 5:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bass, who's freedom are you defending today? Do you plan on connecting this to first amendment rights, or one groups need to exterminate their opposition. I can't wait to read the mental gymnastics that you are willing to go through to connect one inane argument to another. What are you and TDale smoking?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 6:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Raznation @ May 09 2014, 3:41 pm)
QUOTE

(SW Mtn backpacker @ May 09 2014, 11:21 am)
QUOTE
I had heard they were doing something like this several days ago but nothing since as Clark Cty was being pressed to stop it.  The area has major casinos on the Utah line around Mesquite and heaven forbid the spousal unit find out the Jr.s BYU money was being spent on slots ....  long story short: I'm usually concentrated on the beverage or playlist in my cab despite my better nature.

I'd hate to end someone's militia career because the Bangle's "Walk like an Egyptian" unexpectedly played instead of the Damned's "New Rose" ..  Yeah, I know, public safety but some things just can't wait for the vehicle to stop...

I didnt post any links because I wasnt too sure that they were doing this.

I wonder what people would think if it was a gang of african americans or native americans doing these roadblocks?

There was a little flair up over these checkpoints ** Article: checkpoints turning Bunkerville in Bundystan - Las Vegas Sun 28 April (you can't make this up)** earlier in the week but a Senator called the county out to check it out.  Kind of surprised they let them halt I-15 as long as they did.  Lot of Utah (and other) money comes into Vegas itself on that road..

As to non-whites doing something similar, I'm sure the residents would be screaming for the National Guard... (though some residents were complaining about Bundystan which got the Senator involved after the BLM stood down - remember, this area gets most of it's money from trying to be a mini-Vegas to southern Utah and the Arizona Strip).


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 6:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just when you think they got away with all this ...

FBI offiically investigating Bundy backers (Las Vegas Sun News .. May 2014)

Some people's lives and finances throughly examined like the Vaselined glove line at the airport.  Wonder who's going to rat out the others first?


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 6:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bundy has bigger problems than the FBI now.

Latest Development on the Bundy Ranch


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 6:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd show them my DD214, something they or Bundy does not have.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 7:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ May 09 2014, 3:46 pm)
QUOTE
desert dweller
QUOTE
It's against the law to detain anyone, illegal or not, for any reason even though they be on your property. (Law enforcement, of course, is the exception.) A rancher in southern Arizona lost his entire ranch for holding Border crossers at gunpoint. The migrants got his ranch.

If the bozos with Bundy try it, he could lose everything.


..
I doubt that it is illegal for private police to stop traffic and request ID on a Nevada public road or highway since in most states with wealthy real estate developments suburbs they have been doing that for years. ..

I tried my own traffic checkpoint in living in a fairly wealthy suburb ... when I was age 9.   :p


Lasted for 6 minutes or so ...


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 7:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SW Mtn backpacker @ May 09 2014, 5:42 pm)
QUOTE
Just when you think they got away with all this ...

FBI offiically investigating Bundy backers (Las Vegas Sun News .. May 2014)

Some people's lives and finances throughly examined like the Vaselined glove line at the airport.  Wonder who's going to rat out the others first?

At the very least, I'll bet that every one of them has been identified by the FBI and will soon find themselves targeted by the IRS for multiple "random taxpayer compliance audits" that will consume their time so that they won't have time to play with their guns. They might not be able to afford their guns after paying all the tax accountants to defend themselves.

I also suspect that a lot of them will find that they have acquired some erroneous arrest records that cause them to fail the background check the next time that they want to purchase a gun. It will be interesting how many find themselves listed on the sex offender registry too.

My guess is that they won't get away with it too.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 8:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You have much less respect for the Law than most of us here, Bass.  It won't be necessary to fabricate matters when those "Freedom Fighters" come to court.  

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 8:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ May 09 2014, 7:02 pm)
QUOTE
... when those "Freedom Fighters" come to court.  

When that happens they'll be held aloft as Martyrs for The Cause, in some circles.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 8:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ol-zeke
QUOTE
You have much less respect for the Law than most of us here, Bass.


You have ventured your opinion, which I respect because that is what this forum is about - so I will venture mine.

My opinion is that the Law, and law enforcement, are much different now. I suspect that your "friendly and honourable neighbourhood cop" of the 1980's has been replaced with a  militarized modern version of the Gestapo. And today the Law seems to favour the rich bankers and "Enron" types who are robbing Americans blind - while imprisoning poor black kids for minor gun and drug infractions. And often these gun and drug infractions are "trumped up" so police can justify NOT going after the real criminals.

So there is a reason for the "less respect" that the younger generation has for the Law.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 8:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I understand the stance of the cops are after the kids, it went on in the 60's as well.  It still doesn't translate to trumped up sex offenders, or falsifying felonious convictions to prevent gun purchases.  That is the line that is too far to imagine going on in this country.  Trumped up charges, Federal forces itching for a fire fight, just the use of the term Gestapo-like.  Our country has not succumbed to that level of militarized police force, not yet.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2014, 10:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think that Bass suffers from a paranoia that comes more from his choices in media than his real life experience. Many of us are speaking from experience while he is quoting his history professor and blaming spring break for his lack of attention to detail. I have mentored a few college students, mostly by encouraging them to be analytical and challenging their perceptions while promoting their skepticism. I've seen this before, they call it sophomoric.

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(GoBlueHiker @ May 09 2014, 6:54 pm)
QUOTE
Bundy has bigger problems than the FBI now.

Latest Development on the Bundy Ranch

Love that! The Bob and Tom Show used to play it every morning.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 8:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why would the government go to the trouble and expense of falsifying documents.  They can just put these people on a terrorist watch list, which is clearly justified considering their activities. They can thank George Bush for pushing the Patriot Act.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 9:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ May 09 2014, 3:36 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ May 09 2014, 6:35 am)
QUOTE
"An inadvertent discharge of my personal protection firearm punctured their tire.  I paid for the service call."

Care to expound on that thought T?

Or are we left to assume you'd prefer to see warlords over than the rule of law?

Not much worse than the threats of vehicular homicide insinuated here, huh?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 11:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ May 10 2014, 6:47 am)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ May 09 2014, 3:36 pm)
QUOTE

(TDale @ May 09 2014, 6:35 am)
QUOTE
"An inadvertent discharge of my personal protection firearm punctured their tire.  I paid for the service call."

Care to expound on that thought T?

Or are we left to assume you'd prefer to see warlords over than the rule of law?

Not much worse than the threats of vehicular homicide insinuated here, huh?

On one hand a person feels threatened by an armed stranger at an illegal road block and chooses not to stop.

On the other hand a person operating that illegal road block chooses to shoot out the tires of the person legally driving on a public roadway.

No, they're not even remotely the same.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 12:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Forbes magazine recently released pert 3 of their series on the Bundy standoff and it's roots in the "Sovereigners" mindset and movement.  It's an enlightening piece, and goes a long way in explaining why these dips think they have a sovereign right to do whatever they feel like.  To them the local sherif has supreme authority over all other jurisdictions... unless he doesn't do what you want, and then you get to ignore him too, lynch him in the street and make your own law.

Read parts 1 & 2 too if you didn't get the chance.

Context Matters: The Cliven Bundy Standoff, Part 3


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