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Topic: The V. A. uproar?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 21 2014, 10:23 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Republicans had better be careful in their rhetoric, very careful.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1Q26O20140227?irpc=932

"U.S. Senate Republicans block veterans' health bill on budget worry
By Richard Cowan
WASHINGTON | Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:50pm EST
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By Richard Cowan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Senate Republicans blocked legislation on Thursday that would have expanded federal healthcare and education programs for veterans, saying the $24 billion bill would bust the budget..."

Not that anyone's hands are clean on this: IG reports date back to 2005:

http://www.va.gov/oig/52/reports/2005/VAOIG-04-02887-169.pdf


http://www.va.gov/oig/52/reports/2007/VAOIG-07-00616-199.pdf

Oh, and fun fact. One high profile member of the Senate committee that requested and received those reports? Sen. Barack Hussein Obama.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 21 2014, 10:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

24 Billion will bust the budget??  

Shirley, you jest!

Take a look at the appropriations approved for the Iraq war:

FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 billion Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2007 Department of Defense appropriations: $70 billion(estimated) for Iraq War-related costs[4][5]
FY2007 Emergency Supplemental (proposed) $100 billion
FY2008 Bush administration has proposed around $190 billion for the Iraq War and Afghanistan[6]
FY2009 Obama administration has proposed around $130 billion in additional funding for the Iraq War and Afghanistan.[7]
FY2010 Obama administration proposes around $159.3 billion for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.[8]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

Several trillions for the military industrial complex, but 24 billion for the vets will bust the budget??

Give me a break!  What a country!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 21 2014, 11:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The usual suspects will say something like "See!! See!! This just goes to show, once again,
how government can't do anything right"

Some of them might even say "lets Privatize the VA!!"


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 2:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ May 21 2014, 11:39 pm)
QUOTE
The usual suspects will say something like "See!! See!! This just goes to show, once again,
how government can't do anything right"

Some of them might even say "lets Privatize the VA!!"

I've been an eligible user of government healthcare for most my adult life.  And have seldom used it for myself and especially for my family.  We've almost always opted for private/commercial healthcare.  It was more expensive, but I firmly believe my son is alive today largely because of that choice.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 7:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh yes....that last little bit of $$$ would have put them over the top and allowed them to actually make the VA functional

The problem is that Obama's only capable of throwing money at problems....not so good at actually solving them

Or managing the folks that are supposed to solve them


Look at how well this single payer system works!

The hopeful changer could not even answer a simple question on whether Shinseki had offered to resign....instead he just rambled on about how really mad he still is

We are at least a week into the story and this guy is just getting a handle o what has been going on and (finally) meets with Shinseki....really???

Of course he "just found out about it" again so it is not his fault

I predict he will get his reports and then call for even more $$$ to be handed to the incompetents that are currently running the show


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 11:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hey BB: funding means hiring staff and when you've got a wait list the glaringly obvious issue is not enough capacity to handle the additional inflow: i.e. staff.

The meeting with Shinseki was unnecessary except for photo ops as until the report comes in the reporting fraud allegations, which are the current scandal, haven't been substantiated so there's no "there" "there" in having a meeting.

"Purse Strings" Congress has dodged adequate funding for adequate staff for a very long time. Now that's something the alleged "Great Communicator" can take a lot of heat on for not keeping that Congressional irresponsibility at the forefront of the political debate (and money is always a political debate).

ETA: Oh and th V.A. system ISNT'T "single payer" so that's an ignorant "fail".: there's no single payer, the Veteran's Administration owns and runs the system,  Single payer would be if the VA system was structured like Medicare where eligible veterans just got a card like a medicare card they could take to private healthcare providers: and they don't.

Enjoy your bliss.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ May 21 2014, 8:39 pm)
QUOTE
The usual suspects will say something like "See!! See!! This just goes to show, once again,
how government can't do anything right"

Some of them might even say "lets Privatize the VA!!"

I'm inclined to think it shouldn't be privatized, it should be eliminated altogether (the health system component not the entire V.A.) and eligible veterans should simply receive a healthcare card like a Medicare card.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 12:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Billbab said
QUOTE

Oh yes....that last little bit of $$$ would have put them over the top and allowed them to actually make the VA functional


So you don't think one the problems is the lack of resources to match the growing influx of wounded
vets (especially those with brain injuries and PSTD) from Iraq and Afghanistan?  You know the true
cost of of the Iraq and Afghanistan was will be in the trillions and one Harvard estimates it could
be as high as 6 trillion mainly because of health care costs


The report states: “The Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, taken together, will be the most expensive wars in
US history—totaling somewhere between $4 trillion and $6 trillion. This includes long-term medical care and
disability compensation for service members, veterans and families, military replenishment and social and
economic costs. The largest portion of that bill is yet to be paid.”


http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-wars....5350789

So of course its a money issue.

Billbab said
QUOTE

The problem is that Obama's only capable of throwing money at problems....not so good at actually solving them

Or managing the folks that are supposed to solve them


OK so I'm open to the possibility that this was a management problem, to some degree by Obama, so explain
how it was a management problem by Obama?

Billbab said
QUOTE

Look at how well this single payer system works!


That was a silly statement. The VA, unlike the vast majority of single payer systems, really is
true socialized medicine because the VA is operated,owned and financed by government which means
hospitals and doctors work for and get their salaries directly from the government. Most single
payers systems don't work that way.  Even if you want to consider the VA a single payer system
it would be absurd to judge a single payer system based on one system while ignoring the many other
examples of single payers systems.

Billbab said
QUOTE

The hopeful changer could not even answer a simple question on whether Shinseki had offered to resign....instead he just rambled on about how really mad he still is


So you think he should resign? Why? What do you think he did or didn't do that would have made a difference?


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 12:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 22 2014, 12:01 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ May 21 2014, 8:39 pm)
QUOTE
The usual suspects will say something like "See!! See!! This just goes to show, once again,
how government can't do anything right"

Some of them might even say "lets Privatize the VA!!"

I'm inclined to think it shouldn't be privatized, it should be eliminated altogether (the health system component not the entire V.A.) and eligible veterans should simply receive a healthcare card like a Medicare card.

I agree. Scrap it ALL. Obamacare will be better.

The idea that this started with Obama is ridiculous. The VA has been dysfunctional well before my first and last attempt to use it around 1969. IT WAS A LOT WORSE THEN. I told my wife back then to never tell anyone who might influence where I might be hospitalized that I am a veteran.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 12:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buddero @ May 22 2014, 12:32 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 22 2014, 12:01 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ May 21 2014, 8:39 pm)
QUOTE
The usual suspects will say something like "See!! See!! This just goes to show, once again,
how government can't do anything right"

Some of them might even say "lets Privatize the VA!!"

I'm inclined to think it shouldn't be privatized, it should be eliminated altogether (the health system component not the entire V.A.) and eligible veterans should simply receive a healthcare card like a Medicare card.

I agree. Scrap it ALL. Obamacare will be better.

The idea that this started with Obama is ridiculous. The VA has been dysfunctional well before my first and last attempt to use it around 1969. IT WAS A LOT WORSE THEN. I told my wife back then to never tell anyone who might influence where I might be hospitalized that I am a veteran.

What is your opinion about surveys that show that the VA gets high marks in patient satisfaction
(higher than private insurance)?

Here are two sources on this

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....faction

http://www.military.com/daily-n....es.html


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2014, 10:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It would be worthwhile to look at survey populations and what is being compared. Are they comparing VA clinic experience to private providers? Patient satisfaction surveys are complex in how they're done and how they are interpreted. They also are one part of an even more complex evaluation (of quality of care). So I don't know.

I do know that my healthcare experiences (including quality of care) covered by insurance are generally much better than healthcare experiences in the VA system.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 1:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"The V. A. uproar?"


What is there to be uproared about?


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 9:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimmyC @ May 22 2014, 10:19 pm)
QUOTE
"The V. A. uproar?"


What is there to be uproared about?

Well the allegation that VA delays caused forty veteran's deaths in Phoenix within a system that had been fraudulently misreporting system wait times has triggered a refocus on the longstanding issue of VA wait times. Something that extends back decades and was the subject of multiple reports to the Senste since 2005....

So the "what"? The alleged forty veteran deaths?
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 9:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 22 2014, 11:56 am)
QUOTE
Hey BB: funding means hiring staff and when you've got a wait list the glaringly obvious issue is not enough capacity to handle the additional inflow: i.e. staff.

The meeting with Shinseki was unnecessary except for photo ops as until the report comes in the reporting fraud allegations, which are the current scandal, haven't been substantiated so there's no "there" "there" in having a meeting.

"Purse Strings" Congress has dodged adequate funding for adequate staff for a very long time. Now that's something the alleged "Great Communicator" can take a lot of heat on for not keeping that Congressional irresponsibility at the forefront of the political debate (and money is always a political debate).

ETA: Oh and th V.A. system ISNT'T "single payer" so that's an ignorant "fail".: there's no single payer, the Veteran's Administration owns and runs the system,  Single payer would be if the VA system was structured like Medicare where eligible veterans just got a card like a medicare card they could take to private healthcare providers: and they don't.

Enjoy your bliss.

Of course they just need more money to hire more doctors

Because their doctors see less patients than those in the private sector

"For perspective, 60% of cardiologists reported seeing between 50-124 patients per week, according to a 2013 survey of medical professionals’ compensation conducted by Medscape. On the low end, the average single private practice cardiologist who participated in the study saw more patients in a week than the Albuquerque VA’s entire eight-person Cardiology department"

http://news.yahoo.com/v-scand....cs.html

The govt answer to everything is just throw more $$ at it

And then go ahead and ignore it again

But your man Obama ran his campaign on fixing the VA

Just another empty promise

"After seven years of an Administration that has stretched our military to the breaking point, ignored deplorable conditions at some VA hospitals, and neglected the planning and preparation necessary to care for our returning heroes, America’s veterans deserve a President who will fight for them not just when it’s easy or convenient, but every hour of every day for the next four years."

But then he got busy

And golf takes a lot of his time  :laugh:

Of course he was still in denial in 2012

"For the first time ever, we’ve made military families and veterans a top priority not just at DOD, not just at the VA, but across the government."


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 10:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How's McCains record on that? He was on the very same committee as Obama in 2005?

And I was critical of "my guy" in the opening post.


Albuquerque? "at any given time, only three are working in the clinic" So they rotate staff to fill other responsibilities: which is still a manning issue and that's still money, not solely but the standard Pub "starving the beast" isn't any sort of help.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 12:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I worked at a VA hospital back in the mid 1980’s.  The problems of delayed appointments for the clinics were far worst back then.  There were fewer clinics and long waits.  Just tossing money at a problem will not solve it but that does not mean that better funding is not part of the solution.  The care I saw in the oncology unit I worked was as good as the nearby oncology hospital.  The VA hospitals have some specialty areas in which they excel.  The hospital I was at was one of the best at taking care of spinal cord injuries including rehab.  

For those that think giving veterans Medicare would be a solution are wrong.  The benefits for those veterans that have 100% disability are far more than what Medicare provides


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 2:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

But a system like Medicare, or private insurance for that matter, where a veteran took his or her benefits card to the civilian medical system would simply eliminate the government run health delivery system and not necessarily affect the amount of benefits themselves at all. Similarly the other aspects of the V.A. such as disability payments, would be affected at all.

For one thing then all the politics of the government controlled health system goes away: where now the V.A. can only open clinics with the permission of Congress.... and hospitals, in the past, have been sited based on the local representatives clout and not population need....

Centralized control has positives for sure, the V.A. hospital system is a lot further along in implementing the NIM "To Err is Human" report's recommendations for instance.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 5:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Speaking of wait times:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/news....HP_more
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2014, 6:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In January of 2001 Bush 43 aides were quoted off the record on the floor of Congress as saying they wanted to "dismantle the VA." It was at the time clearly a serious model threat to Private Health Care. In my experience helping Vets in Colorado in the 90s the VA functioned quite well. By 2006 after several of my friends, Vietnam combat vets, received letters from that Administration asking them to give up a $1,000 of their monthly benefits to fund treatment for returning Iraq/Afghanistan Vets I was disgusted to put it lightly.  I know of absolutely no brass receiving 5 figure monthly pensions receiving anything like that letter at all. If it were up to me the guys in the Phoenix Project, recon Marines, etc., would get the big bucks and those disgustingly compensated brass would have to rely on investments they'd made with all that money they made for so long.

Lots of Republicans love to wave the flag and say they "support the troops." When it comes to Veterans Congressional Voting records far beyond February demonstrate that as a party that flag waving by Republicans is deceitful to put it far to kindly.

Billblab,

What single payer are you talking about? I'd of loved to see the ACA actually go single payer so we could get decent healthcare like the rest of the developed world. I'm virtually certain the leading voices against Single Payer were Republican. If you have any integrity at all Bill you'll retract this tripe you're tying to purvey. Otherwise keep on being the unAmerican _ you've always demonstrated yourself to be.


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(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 23 2014, 9:10 am)
QUOTE

(JimmyC @ May 22 2014, 10:19 pm)
QUOTE
"The V. A. uproar?"


What is there to be uproared about?

Well the allegation that VA delays caused forty veteran's deaths in Phoenix within a system that had been fraudulently misreporting system wait times has triggered a refocus on the longstanding issue of VA wait times. Something that extends back decades and was the subject of multiple reports to the Senste since 2005....

So the "what"? The alleged forty veteran deaths?

It sure is funny, anything that even gets close to Obama, is alleged...............

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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2014, 3:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You should be thankful for being ALLEGED to being a contribution to the forum.

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Re Roger's comments: Yes, the VA has gotten better. No question about that. But in my experience and to my knowledge, the quality of care is not on par with the mainstream medical system.

My belief is that it started getting better thanks to the publicity about the appalling treatment given to veterans during and after the Vietnam War. So there is yet another contribution to America from my generation - this one paid in blood and suffering.

JimmyC, boy, what a joke (that's the way cleaned up version).


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(Ecocentric @ May 24 2014, 3:27 pm)
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You should be thankful for being ALLEGED to being a contribution to the forum.

A troll's contribution is always different............................

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(buddero @ May 24 2014, 5:14 pm)
QUOTE
Re Roger's comments: Yes, the VA has gotten better. No question about that. But in my experience and to my knowledge, the quality of care is not on par with the mainstream medical system.

My belief is that it started getting better thanks to the publicity about the appalling treatment given to veterans during and after the Vietnam War. So there is yet another contribution to America from my generation - this one paid in blood and suffering.

JimmyC, boy, what a joke (that's the way cleaned up version).

Did you tell a joke?

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woooosh...................... you missed it boy.

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On the day that Jimmy was born the bubbas got together
And decided to create a troll come true
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(buddero @ May 25 2014, 4:19 pm)
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woooosh...................... you missed it boy.

I don't get it?

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JimmyC Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 25 2014, 6:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ May 25 2014, 5:38 pm)
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On the day that Jimmy was born the bubbas got together
And decided to create a troll come true
So they sprinkled Miller Lite down his throat
And raised him up to be without a clue!

Ahhhh Drifty................I see your still "thinking" about me.

--------------


Trolls need love too...........
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Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 25 2014, 7:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimmyC @ May 25 2014, 5:17 pm)
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Ahhhh Drifty................I see your still "thinking" about me.

Trolls need thinking about too........... :;):


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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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buddero Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 25 2014, 10:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, he's a pretty good troll or I'm an easy catch, especially with an issue like the VA and the prices veterans pay. It's not funny. But there I go again.

It seems to me that the VA has gotten progressively better over the years and under both Republican and Democrat leadership. It will be enormously interesting to see when the current issue began and how widespread it is or isn't.


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Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty
If your cup is full, may it be again

Journal and links to refugees, backpacking, travel in Asia, photos, honky-tonk angels, other beautiful things...
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