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Topic: Declines in Gun Ownership in America< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 12:26 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is the trend that will end the stonewalling to prevent sensible gun controls and may be the death knell for the 2nd Amendment as we now know it.

The time when we as intelligent, pro-active gun owners could support changes for safety, and to reassure the general public that gun owners and users are safe is coming to an end.  In another generation it will be a a bare bones political battle, and the very small minority of inflexible gun advocates will lose, taking the gun rights of those of us who want change now, right along with them.

Wake up, support technology and local laws to make guns more safe and to keep them out of the hands of criminals and children.

You say there have been changes in how the NRA and manufacturers are marketing guns. What kind of changes?

All this occurs against a backdrop that, when the industry and the NRA talk amongst themselves, they’re very open about, but rarely do they concede it when making public statements. And that’s a fact that gun ownership in the U.S. is on a steady decline. In 1977, 54 percent of American households had a gun in them. By 2012, that number had dropped to 34 percent. (And this comes from the general social survey that’s done by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. It’s the most cited social survey in the country. It’s the only survey that has consistently looked at this issue.) So what the industry is faced with is the fact that gun owners are aging; they’re dying off. And the constant pressure [the NRA] faces is two-fold. One is, how do you resell current gun owners? And the second is, how do you market to, for lack of a better phrase, “replacement shooters”? Just like the tobacco industry [has "replacement smokers"].

So, for current gun owners, lethality has been the [marketers'] focus. And this starts from marketing high-capacity semi-auto pistols through assault weapons to new-generation what you call “pocket rocket pistols”: smaller in size, greater in capacity to, today, [a] new generation of assault pistols and then literal crossover military technology, like 50 caliber sniper rifles. The other marketing focus today, looking at the current gun-owning population, is concealed carry. The concealed carry wasn’t viewed solely in a political context, but in fact it represents one of the last great marketing efforts by the industry. The fact is that not only can you sell people more handguns; you can sell them all the accessories, the training, everything that goes along with it, down to clothing. There’s a fairly famous quote that Tanya Metaksa, who was the NRA’s former top lobbyist, offered in 1996 in sort of a burst of honesty, when she told the Wall Street Journal as the NRA launched the concealed carry campaign, “The gun industry should send me a basket of fruit” because [she] created a whole new market for them. The other issue is [an] attempt to market to women, [an] attempt to market to young people, including children, and that’s been an ongoing effort…

Do you think the Millers, the couple who killed those people and themselves in Las Vegas — and who reportedly bragged about how many weapons they owned — are the kind of fringier, more radical gun enthusiasts the NRA is now marketing to?

The NRA has a really big problem — and that’s being the NRA. They can no longer rely on increased gun sales [and] increased gun ownership as a whole for new members. So, what we’ve seen is they’ve taken for the most part two approaches. The first is that … they’ve basically cemented their relationship with the gun industry. Back in 1967, in the NRA’s official history, they bragged or just stated that they accepted no money [from and] had no relationship with gun manufacturers, distributors, jobbers. [There] was a complete bright line between the two. By 2013, soon after the Newtown shooting, the president of the NRA, then-president David Keene, said when asked this question about the relationship between NRA and the industry … said, “We get some” — and basically, to paraphrase it — “and we’d like to get more!” [T]he first shift is that the NRA and industry are working together to market guns. If you go to the NRA’s website, it is almost awash in sponsorships from the gun industry, from specific manufacturers … The head of Smith & Wesson, James Debney, basically has said, “The NRA” — this is a quote — “is our voice.”


http://www.salon.com/2014...._fringe


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 12:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The powerful NRA reminds me very much of the Tobacco Institute -- once equally powerful and seemingly unassailable -- but now completely irrelevant.  The NRA should look into how something that powerful could crumble.  But it likely won't, and history will likely repeat itself.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 7:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

wwwest, your motor needs a tune up.  Trolling way too fast, just pulls the hook right out of their jaw.

Slow down and smell the roses.  

And if this is really your idea of funny, be sure to keep your day job, if you can get one.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 8:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 8:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

wwwest,
You might want to go into your local gun shop instead of believing this National Opinion bunch. If ownership WERE falling, the shelves would be piled high with unsold firearms, the prices would be falling to attract buyers, and dealers would have to advertise and offer specials to get rid of them. There would also be stacks of ammunition on sale because no one is buying firearms to use the ammo up. I wish that all of these were true, but when you check it out yourself, you will see that none of these is happening.

:)  :)  :)
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 8:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

quote: So what the industry is faced with is the fact that gun owners are aging; they’re dying off.

And they aren't reporting their guns.  Criminals don't.  Some legitimate owners don't.

It's like I've always said about drugs: Why would I tell you that I did illegal drugs unless I implicitly trusted you?  Same with guns.  I want you guessing if I'm armed.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 9:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The gun puts the Citizen on equal footing with the Criminal, which is to say that both are equally lethal and so, out on the sidewalk, a weird equilibrium can be achieved.  This is also true of the relationship between the Citizen and his Government, though this "equilibrium" is largely fantastic;  the threat presented by the Government is more sinister than anything coming from the curb, mainly because disarming the Citizen empowers the Criminal.

In both cases, those who favor a more Libertarian philosophy and those who expect to be kept safe by somebody else, include majorities of Citizens for whom hyperbole is the preferred quality of  expression.  Danger, Will Robinson, the zombies will eat you.  The NRA, an organization I supported for 40 years, an organization that used to support the use of sporting arms but which now just hawks the utility and desirability of the Socom and similar semi-auto firearms, resorts to hyperbole in nearly all of its "communications" to its membership and to the general Citizenry.  This organization has become a joke that is not funny ha-ha.  Its perversion ensures unintended consequences.  As a function of the NRA's own rhetoric the lemming-ferret Citizen of the City decries ownership of firearms in general and names Resident Evil.

I do not think that there is anything resembling a conversation here.

Yes, I think it inevitable that the Nation's Citizens will be disarmed.  Why?  Because you can't expect we idiots who are tethered to digital devices to understand very much at any depth greater than fractional inches and you sure can't expect us to do anything that requires un-easy effort or to pledge actual commitment to inconvenient ideas.  We Citizens want above all to be "kept safe" and are willing, no, eager to stay sleeping.

That's why.

What happens if we don't come to grips with this issue?  Well, if you really want to see what all this talk turns into then turn on your television (the transmission of images and imposition of ideas that are not yours until they arrive) and watch the continuing saga of the further "liberation" of Iraq.  It's a great show, hopefully not coming soon to a town near you.

But it just might.

Your decision, make it a good one.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 7:09 am)
QUOTE
The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?

Who stated they only care about gun control when it affects whites?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 2:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drake @ Jun. 16 2014, 8:40 am)
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The gun puts the Citizen on equal footing with the Criminal, which is to say that both are equally lethal and so, out on the sidewalk, a weird equilibrium can be achieved.

Would it be better if the citizen was on a stronger footing than the criminal?

The majority of people who advocate better gun control laws do not seek to take guns away from the Citizen. Stronger measures are needed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics.

Gun violence in Chicago is often cited as an argument against gun control, but what it really points out is the need for more universal and effective background checks. It doesn't matter how strict gun control laws are within Chicago's city limits when a straw purchaser can drive a short distance across the border to a gun show in Indiana. Occasionally one of these trafficers is caught, but that hardly stems the tide.

The goal is to make it more difficult for criminals to acquire guns. No law is 100% effective, but making it more difficult and expensive will be an attrition that would likely have a greater effect over time.

Those who oppose any and all gun control laws like to make an analogy with automobiles, and I say go for it -- let's have testing, licensing, registration and title for every transfer. Very little impediment to law abiding citizens, but more attrition against the ridiculously easy flow of untracked frearms today.

Carrying firearms in public is a separate issue. I sincerely doubt the overall effect is to improve safety for the Citizen, but if that can be objectively proven I could support it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 2:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 8:09 am)
QUOTE
The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?

Damn does scot like to throw around the racist label


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 2:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Jun. 16 2014, 1:49 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 7:09 am)
QUOTE
The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?

Who stated they only care about gun control when it affects whites?

Its an obvious stupid strawman from scot. What's new?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 2:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

NRA (and pals).

Gun/Ammo Industry's best friend in the short run.

Legal gun owners' worst enemy in the long run.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 6:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Jun. 16 2014, 1:49 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 7:09 am)
QUOTE
The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?

Who stated they only care about gun control when it affects whites?

Let's see... thread uses the Millers as a case

Then we have...

Oregon
Newtown
Everytown.org
bloomberg
Columbine
etc, etc...

All of the calls for gun control stem from events that only involved a majority of whites. The main- stream media only headlines the events that involve whites.

Face it, you and the rest of the pro-crime, anti gun crowd are the most radical of racists. You could care less when blacks die, as MANY do every day from violence. You only call for gun control when it affects your color. Shame on you.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 6:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 6:14 pm)
QUOTE

(Drift Woody @ Jun. 16 2014, 1:49 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 7:09 am)
QUOTE
The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?

Who stated they only care about gun control when it affects whites?

Let's see... thread uses the Millers as a case

Then we have...

Oregon
Newtown
Everytown.org
bloomberg
Columbine
etc, etc...

All of the calls for gun control stem from events that only involved a majority of whites. The main- stream media only headlines the events that involve whites.

Face it, you and the rest of the pro-crime, anti gun crowd are the most radical of racists. You could care less when blacks die, as MANY do every day from violence. You only call for gun control when it affects your color. Shame on you.

"you and the rest of the pro-crime, anti gun crowd are the most radical of racists. You could
care less when blacks die, as MANY do every day from violence. You only call for gun
when it affects your color. Shame on you."

Sure is amazing how scot like to throw the "racist" labels around

Its rhetoric like this that is fast making scot one of the biggest fools on the forum.  The idea that anyone in this forum
(or anywhere else for that matter) has only called for gun control for a particular race is preposterous.

Just as stupid is to assume certain things about the media(that it is only about whites and not how many casualties) and
then to project that assumption to specific people on this forum is equally stupid but hey this is scot so why should we be surprised.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 6:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

^lol... and Jesus clapped!

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 6:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gee I'm surprised scot didn't call me a racist again

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2014, 10:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 5:14 pm)
QUOTE

(Drift Woody @ Jun. 16 2014, 1:49 pm)
QUOTE

(Scot @ Jun. 16 2014, 7:09 am)
QUOTE
The Millers huh?

Another closet racist...

Meanwhile, at least 27 shot in Chi-town over the weekend. But hey, they're black, who cares?

Why do you only care about gun control when it involves whites?

Who stated they only care about gun control when it affects whites?

Let's see... thread uses the Millers as a case

Then we have...

Oregon
Newtown
Everytown.org
bloomberg
Columbine
etc, etc...

All of the calls for gun control stem from events that only involved a majority of whites. The main- stream media only headlines the events that involve whites.

Face it, you and the rest of the pro-crime, anti gun crowd are the most radical of racists. You could care less when blacks die, as MANY do every day from violence. You only call for gun control when it affects your color. Shame on you.

Do you really believe what you type, or are you just being a troll?

Because if you really believe that nonsense quoted above, you need to put down that bile you've been drinking and think about what a fool you're making of yourself.

I live in the Chicago area, and the local news (print & TV) frequently report "events" with blacks shooting each other, as well as calls for action including gun control.

And in this forum, I have often cited Chicago street violence as an example why more effective universal background checks are needed.

Bottom line is, you don't know WTF you're talking about and you hurl accusations of racism because you really. have. nothing. else.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2014, 12:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dead men don't know they're dead...
Racists don't know... well, you can finish that sentence.

I didn't know local çhi- town news was main stream. I guess that's an ego thing. Kind of explains the racism.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2014, 6:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Still hard to tell if you believe your own BS or you're just being a troll.

The national media reports whatever it thinks will grab viewers' attention. Gun violence in Chicago has become as routine as deaths from car crashes. In the culture of news infotainment most people would change the channel. We're headed in the direction of school shootings becoming routine and less newsworthy.

Business decisions made by the corporate media do not make you or me racist or prejudiced against people who drive cars or against school children, nor does it it make someone racist if they comment in an online political forum when the more "newsworthy" stories involving gun violence are posted.

Except perhaps in your own twisted little mind. It's apparent you really have no valid arguments on the issue, so you lash out with accusations of racism like some petulant child who can't see himself in the mirror.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2014, 7:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Jun. 17 2014, 6:50 am)
QUOTE
We're headed in the direction of school shootings becoming routine and less newsworthy.

LOL. You think school shootings have become routine? Have they? The media would make someone like you believe so. Can you cite statistics that prove so?

http://www.businessinsider.com/america....-2014-6

http://nymag.com/science....se.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner....w-cooke

Almost 300 chicago children have died from violence over the last three years. Where is the national outcry? White children die... and the tears flow.

It's okay Woody... the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2014, 7:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You are being deliberately obtuse. "Headed towards" means we are not there yet. And it doesn't change a thing about your absurd playing of the race card.

Dude, you have a problem. Get some help.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2014, 7:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What the study really shows is that an incereasing number of gun owners think it is NOBODIES BUSINESS IF THEY OWN FIREARMS

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2014, 7:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Jun. 17 2014, 7:27 am)
QUOTE
You are being deliberately obtuse. "Headed towards" means we are not there yet. And it doesn't change a thing about your absurd playing of the race card.

Dude, you have a problem. Get some help.

Please show me the data that shows we are "headed" in that direction... the links above have forty years worth of data.

Am I being absurd? Really? Ignorance is bliss Woody!

Sounds like YOU need the help. Psychiatrists can help you cope with your denial.


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(BillBab @ Jun. 17 2014, 6:33 am)
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What the study really shows is that an incereasing number of gun owners think it is NOBODIES BUSINESS IF THEY OWN FIREARMS

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2014, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks to the NRA and the paranoia of the gun nuts, gun sales are just fine.

It is the percentage of the overall population which owns and uses guns that is declining, rather rapidly as these issues go in historical context.

The same old gun owners are buying more and more guns, as we have seen evidence of here on these threads every time there is a new jerk on the paranoia chain, but a much lower rate of gun buyers are young, first time buyers.  I am quite sure that election Hillary Clinton as POTUS will lead to another spasm of overbuying, just as happened both times with Obama.

And hunting is already a dying sport, very few new participants and lots of the old regulars like me are dying off by the millions, and that rate is accelerating as the Boomers begin to reach terminal age.

Not a pretty picture for the gun nuts and the gun manufacturers.

Here are a couple of examples of serious longitudinal studies by the hunting groups who are trying their best to put a positive spin on the trends, but can't do it.

The downward trend in hunting participation is manifested
in the lower recruitment rates in various geographic areas as
well as among males nationally. It is also manifested in lower
retention rates in various geographic areas.

Leonard (2007) found that initiation rates (which obviously affect
subsequent participation rates) declined in every region of the U.S.
from 1990 to 2005, particularly the Mountain Region ( a decline of
44%), Pacific Region (46%), and New England (55%). (Note that
the regions are as defined by the USFWS.) Also, there was a decline
of 38% in initiation rate among males (although the rate among
females remained fairly constant). There were large decreases in
retention rates in several regions, particularly the Mountain Region
(28%) and the Pacific Region (25%).

¾ Trends in hunting participation need to be put into context of
trends regarding participation in outdoor recreation as a
whole. Research suggests declining trends in most outdoor
recreation.

Pergams and Zaradic (2008) analyzed data on visits to national
parks, state parks, and national forests, as well as fishing license data
and surveys on camping, hiking, and backpacking, with their
conclusion being that the number of participants have declined in
most of these activities (the exceptions being a slight rise in
backpacking and hiking). The trends in hunting participation, then,
are part of an overall trend toward decreasing participation in many
outdoor activities.


https://dnr.state.il.us/NRAB/children/Future_hunting.pdf

Now, if a decline of 55% in recruitment, as shown in the Mountain West and New England don't sober you up on these trends, then you really can't count, and should probably be running in a Republican primary.

The study goes on to show similar trends in shooting sports, and there are many more studies.  I will provide a few links for your further education.

Please note that these trends, like gun sales, are real numbers from licensing and from shooting sport associations and businesses.  

I guess that "silent majority" of closet gun owners must be hunting illegally and only shooting with other members of the "silent majority".

You have been seeing how Agnew's silent majority has worked  out for abortion rights, civil rights and providing equal rights for other than heterosexuals, neh?

Get ready for the same result in losing our gun rights if we don't get busy and enact effective, creative measures to make guns more safe and to keep them out of the hands of children and criminals.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2014, 11:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpage....vey.htm

http://scholar.google.com/scholar....QgQMwAA


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2014, 10:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A little more analysis for those who are doing their very best to ignore the writing on the wall and the political debacle that the NRA is building for gun owners:

A decreasing number of American gun owners own two-thirds of the nation's guns and as many as one-third of the guns on the planet -- even though they account for less than 1% of the world's population, according to a CNN analysis of gun ownership data.

The data, collected by the Injury Prevention Journal, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, the General Social Survey and population figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, found that the number of U.S. households with guns has declined, but current gun owners are gathering more guns.

The United States tends to have better data on gun numbers than other countries, for instance Somalia or the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which may account for the high percentage, according to Alan Lizotte, dean and professor at the School of Criminal Justice at The University at Albany.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politics/gun-ownership-declining/


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2014, 7:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Go ahead and believe what you want to believe


"In 2011, Gallup reported that "forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993, albeit marginally above the 44% and 45% highs seen during that period."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs....8DvHMlu


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2014, 8:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

From Gallup billbab(beyond 2011)


http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 22 2014, 1:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Good, thoughtful editorial on improving school safety through improving gun safety:

Children who come to school intending to harm others can do so by other methods besides guns; maybe school leaders are just being thorough by grouping these discussions under the term safety. But I don't really think so. If the schools call it a firearms problem, it will trigger a flurry of complaints from gun owners, who are likely to angrily reject any mention of gun control. I think the selection of the word safety is intentional, and its dishonesty prevents us from having a meaningful conversation about the real problem. Somehow, it's OK to contemplate marching little kids through a metal detector every day — but heaven forbid we offend the tender sensibilities of the National Rifle Association.
Related
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Parents, teachers uneasy after second gun incident
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The hard truth about keeping guns out of schools
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Baltimore Co. schools talk about safety after gun incidents
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Accused Perry Hall shooter has bail hearing postponed
See more stories »

Many things carry inherent risk. People who own swimming pools are generally required to enclose the pool in a fence and pay higher homeowner's insurance rates because an unfenced pool is dangerous to unsupervised children. And you can't own a car without buying liability insurance. We accept these requirements because we understand that it's not fair to impose the costs associated with the risks we choose on other people.
So why can't we apply this approach to the costs and risks associated with gun ownership? Why are gun owners permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of their choices? I don't own a gun, but my property taxes will be increased if Baltimore County Public Schools installs metal detectors and wastes money trying to train teachers to spot which kid is going to crack up next and shoot someone. Why should I be paying for this? I expect gun owners to take financial and personal responsibility for the consequences of their choices — even as they abide by our gun laws.





http://www.baltimoresun.com/news....7.story


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