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Topic: 2 Week Southwest trip, need advice< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 10:24 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hey everyone, I've planned a two week trip for me and my girlfriend in the southwest that inlcudes a lot of hiking and camping. The following is the whole trip planned out. Let me know if I've under or overestimated certain areas.

Day 1 (Sat, Aug 10)
• Fly from BWI @ 7:40p to LAS 9:40p (5h flight) ($132/ticket)
• Pick up booked car (Ford Focus) from LAS from E-Z Rent a Car ($25/day)
• Stay at the Hilton Grand Vacation Suite ($80/night) or The LVH ($95/night) for 1 night


Day 2 (Sun, Aug 11)
• Drive (~220mi/5h) to Havasupai campground parking lot ($57/person entrance fee)
• Hike down to Havasupai falls campground (10mi)
Day 3 (Mon, Aug 12)


• Wake up early (~7a) and hike/swim Havasu falls, Mooney falls, etc.
• Camp at Havasupai falls campground


Day 4 (Tues, Aug 13)
• Wake up and hike (10mi) back to parking lot
• Drive to Grand Canyon (~66mi/3h35m)
• Stay at Mather Campground ($18/night)


Day 5 (Wed, Aug 14)
• Wake up early (~7a) and hike South Kaibab Trail to Cedar Ridge (3mi round trip)
• Drive (21mi/34m) to Lipan Point
• Stay at Desert View Campground ($18/night)


Day 6 (Thurs, Aug 15)
• Wake up early (~7a) and drive(~222mi/4h19m) to Zion National Park
• Hike Angels Landing (5mi/3h)
• Stay at South Campground ($16/night)


Day 7 (Fri, Aug 16)
• Wake up early (~7a) and hike the narrows (6-8mi/4-6h)
• Stay at South Campground ($16/night)


Day 8 (Sat, Aug 17)
• Wake up early (~7a) and hike the subway (6.5mi/5-8h)
• Stay at South Campground ($16/night)


Day 9 (Sun, Aug 18)
• Drive (~341mi/5h6m) to the Arches National Park
• hike the delicate arch (3mi/3-4h)
• Stay at Devils Garden Campground ($20/night) or a BLM campground outside the park


Day 10 (Mon, Aug 19)
• Wake up early (~7a) and hike the Fiery Furnace (2mi/3h) and Sand Dune Arch (0.2mi/10m)
• Drive (~26mi/34m) to Dead Horse Point State Park ($10 fee) and hike Intrepid Loop (1.1mi/30m)


Day 11 (Tues, Aug 20)
• Drive to around Canyonland National Park then drive to Las Vegas (~472mi/7h5m)
• Stay somewhere on the strip ($120/night estimate?)


Day 12 (Wed, Aug 21)
• Drive (~265mi/4h) to Los Angeles
• Drive to hotel or
• Drive (30mi/30m) to Laguna Beach
• Stay at hotel

Day 13 (Thurs, Aug 22)
• Go to El Matador Beach
• Hang around LA


Day 14 (Fri, Aug 23)
• Return Rental Car (LAX)
• Fly LAX @ 9:38a to IAD 5:25p (4h40m flight) ($196/ticket)
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 10:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Did you check the average temps in Havasupai/Grand Canyon in August?
It's generally around 100F.... Are you and your girlfriend used to carrying heavy loads for hours a day in those temperatures?

Heat issues kill quickly.

If you are not experienced backpackers - judging from the post in gear, you are not - and have no experience monitoring and mitigating symptoms of dehydration and heat stroke, this is not a wise choice. Something in the mountains that won't see temperatures above 100 is recommended.

Not sure what your girlfriend expects, or if she has any experience in backpacking. If she does not... hmmm, she might enjoy something less arduous.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 11:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AlmostThere @ Jun. 06 2013, 10:50 am)
QUOTE
Did you check the average temps in Havasupai/Grand Canyon in August?
It's generally around 100F.... Are you and your girlfriend used to carrying heavy loads for hours a day in those temperatures?

Heat issues kill quickly.

If you are not experienced backpackers - judging from the post in gear, you are not - and have no experience monitoring and mitigating symptoms of dehydration and heat stroke, this is not a wise choice. Something in the mountains that won't see temperatures above 100 is recommended.

Not sure what your girlfriend expects, or if she has any experience in backpacking. If she does not... hmmm, she might enjoy something less arduous.

This is ignorant, but I never thought of that. I do powerlifting and olympic lifting 5 days a week and my girlfriend regularly runs, but no we've never done a multiday hike before, especially in 100F.

My plan was to do a few 3-day/2-night hikes locally around Appalachia before heading out west to prepare. How hard is the hike down to Havasupai campgrounds? 10 miles is long, but I haven't read anything about it being hard.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 1:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This sounds like a great October trip.


Higher mountains are really nice in August.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 1:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You could alleviate some of the difficulties by doing some of the Zion /Arches things first.  It will give you a better idea of what it is like.  Driving 5 hours from LAS and then starting the 10 mile hike in 100*+ heat is not wise.  Acclimate first by doing the day hikes around the South Rim first, at least.  If you do the other touristy things at the Canyon first, then you will be able to get a 3 AM start on the way downhill to the Falls.  Much cooler hiking in the early morning dark.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 3:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

OK, some random thoughts:

Take advantage of the time difference coming from the east coast on day 1 by taking an early morning flight and drive to Hualapai Hilltop the same day.  Camp in the parking lot at the trailhead and get a pre-dawn start.  August is too hot for this hike, imo.  It's also the month for flash floods.  Pay attention to the weather.

You have reservations for Havasupai, right?

You have reservations for Mather Campground, right?

You need to get up for sunrise at the Grand Canyon.  Magical.

You're aware of the detour between the Grand Canyon South Rim and Page, right?  It'll add an hour to the drive.  You're not getting to Zion in 4:19 for sure.  Make sure you stop at Horseshoe Bend at least.

Not sure what your chances will be for a South Campground site in Zion arriving so late in the afternoon.  Probably not good.  I take it there's nothing left in Watchman to reserve?

Angel's Landing just before sunset will work.  Just take headlamps.

You have Subway permits, right?  You say 6.5 miles for the Subway, are you planning to do the top-down technical route?  Do you have canyoneering experience?  Again, August is monsoon season.  Make sure you check the weather.  The bottom-up non-technical route is 10 miles round trip.  You need a permit either way.

It's been 15 years since I've been to Moab, so can't help you much there.

August is not the month I'd choose to hike these areas.  Take the threat of flash floods seriously.  If you're not used to desert hiking, do a little research ahead of time.  I generally drink twice as much water in the canyons as I would on a hike here in Michigan.  Don't get too hung up on the mileage aspect of a hike; it's more about elevations there.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 3:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Funny, I am planning something very similar, only my itinerary will put me on the north rim.  And we'll be there in mid-late-July  Two questions for those in the know.  Where do you get permits for the subway, and what is the likelihood of snagging a campsite at South Campground if you get there pretty early, say 10-11ish?
Thanks in advance
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 3:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not to be negative, guess it can be done, but;
Mid August will be killer heat everywhere you are going.
Driving times will be slower than projected, always are.
Sounds like pretty much nonstop, you will miss a lot.
Hiking times will get longer the longer you are out..... fatigue.

As said above you cannot drive to Page from S Rim direct, road is gone by the notch.
Maybe fly to SLC and start from Arches area and go West?  Personally I would bag LA and spend more time hiking..... go to LA a different trip.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 4:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GlenG @ Jun. 06 2013, 3:56 pm)
QUOTE
Funny, I am planning something very similar, only my itinerary will put me on the north rim.  And we'll be there in mid-late-July  Two questions for those in the know.  Where do you get permits for the subway, and what is the likelihood of snagging a campsite at South Campground if you get there pretty early, say 10-11ish?
Thanks in advance

Subway permit system:
http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/subwaypermits.htm

10-11 am isn't all that "early" in the Southwest in summer.  I think your chances aren't good if it's a weekend.  A 'maybe' on a weekday but I'd get there 9-10'ish at the latest.  You might want to check on camping on BLM lands in the area as a backup.

GC North Rim has much fewer facilities than the South Rim.  July will be fully booked by now.  I think you can camp in the national forest areas there.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2013, 4:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ir0nma1den @ Jun. 06 2013, 11:45 am)
QUOTE
How hard is the hike down to Havasupai campgrounds? 10 miles is long, but I haven't read anything about it being hard.

Hualapai Hilltop to Supai is a 2,000 ft elevation change.  It's not a lot by Grand Canyon standards but it's no walk in the park either, especially in summer.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 07 2013, 12:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for all of the input, it really helped and made this trip realistic. I took out the Havasupai excursion, that's something I'll have to do later. EZ rental cars has terrible reviews, so I'm going with Enterprise for my sanity. Let me know what you think.

Day 1 (Sat, Aug 10)
• Fly from BWI @ 7:40p to LAS 9:40p (5h flight) ($132/ticket)
• Pick up booked car (call them) from LAS from Enterprise
• Stay at the Hilton Grand Vacation Suite ($80/night) or The LVH ($95/night) for 1 night

Day 2 (Sun, Aug 11)
• Wake up early and drive to Zion National Park (~164mi/2h40m)
• Get South Campground site ($16/night, need to make reservations ASAP) first
• Hike Angels Landing (5mi/3h)

Day 3 (Mon, Aug 12)
• Wake up early and hike the subway (10mi/8h, bottom-up, need to purchase permit ASAP)
• Stay at South Campground site ($16/night, need to make reservations ASAP)

Day 4 (Tues, Aug 13)
• Wake up early (~7a) and hike the narrows (6-8mi/4-6h)
• Stay at South Campground ($16/night, need to make reservations ASAP)

Day 5 (Wed, Aug 14)
• Drive (~341mi/5h6m) to the Arches National Park
• Hike the Fiery Furnace (2mi/3h, permit/reservation required ASAP) and Sand Dune Arch (0.2mi/10m)
• Stay at Up the Creek Campground or hotel (make reservations ASAP)

Day 6 (Thurs, Aug 15)
• Wake up early and hike the delicate arch (3mi/3-4h)
• Go into Moab and hike/swim Mill creek (1h)
• Stay at Up the Creek Campground or hotel (make reservations ASAP)

Day 6 (Thurs, Aug 15)
• Do river trip (must decide AM ,PM, or whole day, Red River Adventures or moab adventure center, book ASAP)
• Stay at Dead Horse Point State Park or hotel in moab (book ASAP)
• Drive (~26mi/34m) to Dead Horse Point State Park ($10 fee, make reservations ASAP) and hike Intrepid Loop (1.1mi/30m)

Day 7 (Fri, Aug 16)
• Drive to Grand Canyon (~333mi/6h)
• Stop by Lipan Point on way in
• Stay at Desert View Campground ($18/night, need to make reservations ASAP)

Day 8 (Sat, Aug 17)
• Wake up early (~7a) and hike South Kaibab Trail to Cedar Ridge (3mi round trip)
• Stay at Mathers Campground ($18/night, need to make reservations ASAP)

Day 9 (Sun, Aug 18)
• Drive to Las Vegas (277mi/4h20m)
• Stay somewhere on the strip ($120/night estimate?)

Day 10 (Mon, Aug 19)
• Drive (~265mi/4h) to Los Angeles
• Drive to hotel or Fissmers (friends place)
• Drive (30mi/30m) to Laguna Beach
• Stay at hotel or Fissmers (friends place)

Day 11 (Tues, Aug 20)
• Go to El Matador Beach
• Hang around LA

Day 12 (Wed, Aug 21)
• Return Rental Car (LGB)
• Fly LGB @ 9:20p to IAD 5:01a (4h40m flight) ($181/ticket)
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 07 2013, 1:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The drive from Vegas to Zion will work with gas at mesquite, st. George, and Huricane if needed.  The AZ strip is weird.   The only thing is to rent a big pole (in place of hiking poles) to the narrows as the current will try knocking you down.  Also the drive from Vegas to LA is a painful waste of 4-5 hours and frequent accidents really slow it  down (happens about 1/2the time I drive it).  Be flexible but don't underestimate LA traffic.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 07 2013, 9:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I sat in  LA traffic for six hours and managed 10 miles, one Saturday morning...

Then turned around and left again. It was pretty darn discouraging to fly over the Grapevine and screech to a halt just 20 miles shy of our shopping destination.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 07 2013, 10:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In the event that I cannot get permits for the Subway (they are all taken so far, I'll have to wait to do the week-before lottery), I will take head to Bryce before Zion. The Wallstreet hike looks amazing.

How feasible is a through hike at the Narrows for two 21yr olds who are physically active but have never done Canyoneering?

The idea of going to LA is beacause we've never been there and I thought a day or two sitting on a beach sounded like a good way to end the trip. I'm opened to any alternative! Is the drive from Vegas to LA really that bad? I'm from DC so I'm used to pretty bad traffic.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 07 2013, 11:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

OK, some more comments:

The Narrows is a slot canyon but it's a water hike, not a technical canyoneering trip.  It can be done by anyone, even kids.  It's really helpful to have hiking poles and as "sticky" water shoes as you have.  It can be tough going if water flow gets above 100cfs; in August, that would only happen after a lot of rain.  They close the Narrows to hikers when the flow gets above 150cfs.

South Campground is a first-come campground, no reservations taken.  See if you can get reservations for Watchman (recreation.gov).  South and Watchman are close to each other and very similar.  At Watchman, the outer D-loop sites are nice and there are walk-in sites, too.  You can see the map here:
http://www.nps.gov/zion....map.pdf

Desert View is also a first-come campground, no reservations taken.  I don't think it's as popular as South Campground at Zion but, again, if you're arriving late in the day and it's a weekend, your chances are iffy.  Did you check for reservations at Mather? (recreation.gov.)

I still think you're underestimating the drives.  Overall, with 12 days and a desire to do a lot of hiking, you wouldn't plan a "Grand Circle" plus Moab plus LA.  Way too much territory.

My favorite website for Zion hiking:
http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/hiking.cfm


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 07 2013, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Once again thanks for the advice, I'll think about scrapping LA and just ending up in Vegas at the end. I'll definitely need to check out the camground situations.

Here are the final changes I've made. What's a good hike to do in Bryce? I'm planning on the Navajo loop right now.

Day 1 (Sat, Aug 10)
• Fly from BWI @ 7:40p to LAS 9:40p (5h flight) ($132/ticket)
• Pick up booked car (call them) from LAS from Enterprise
• Stay at the Hilton Grand Vacation Suite ($80/night) or The LVH ($95/night) for 1 night

Day 2 (Sun, Aug 11)
• Wake up early and drive to Zion National Park (~164mi/2h40m)
• Get South Campground site ($16/night, need to make reservations ASAP) first
• Hike Angels Landing (5mi/3h)

Day 3 (Mon, Aug 12)
• Wake up early (~4a) and hike the narrows (16mi/12h) (Permit bought)
• Stay at South Campground ($16/night, need to make reservations ASAP)

Day 4 (Tues, Aug 13)
• Wake up early and drive to Bryce National Park (~84mi/1h45m)
• Hike Navajo Loop (3mi/3h, hit wallstreet)
• Stay at North Campground ($15/night, need to make reservations ASAP)
• Permit bought for Narrows  (check weather, return if not using)

Day 5 (Wed, Aug 14)
• Drive (~271mi/4h20m) to the Arches National Park
• Hike the Fiery Furnace (2mi/3h, permit required, obtain from ranger station) and Sand Dune Arch (0.2mi/10m)
• Stay at Up the Creek Campground or hotel (make reservations ASAP)
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 08 2013, 6:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(toejam @ Jun. 06 2013, 1:19 pm)
QUOTE
This sounds like a great October trip.


Higher mountains are really nice in August.

Ditto

Also, I wouldn't recommend hiking the Fiery Furnace by yourself - it's incredibly easy to get lost in there.  Go on one of the guided tours.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 08 2013, 11:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Tigerfan,
Thank you for the good info and advice.  Looks like this was a fail on my part, with regards to even knowing that you needed a permit to hike the narrows.  But, from what I've been able to find about Zion, we can then just hop a bus, and get dropped off at the trailhead and hike Angel's Landing?  That was my other must do hike.  Mapquest has North Rim, AZ to Zion at about 3+ hours, so we should be able get there by 10:00AM and see if we can snag a site.

Regarding the GC, I remember your trip report with your son while back, so you have some knowledge about it.  Not sure if you are familiar the north rim at all, but I was planning on hiking down North Kaibab Trail to Cottonwood.  Looks like a 10-12mi RT.  Would you recommend that as a long, scenic day hike, and are there any others you'd suggest as well?

Other folks are welcomed and encouraged to chime in.
Thanks in advance.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 09 2013, 4:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you can't get the Subway you can look into doing Orderville Cyn, spectacular but you will need the shuttle.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 10:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've just about booked everything, but I have one more question.

I'm deadset on doing the Fiery Furnace, but I would prefer to do it without a guide. Would bring a topo map and a smart phone GPS suffice?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 12:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the heat chases you out, the eastern Sierra are only a short jaunt west of Las Vegas.

US-395 (from Lone Pine, CA north)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 3:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GlenG @ Jun. 08 2013, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
Tigerfan,
Thank you for the good info and advice.  Looks like this was a fail on my part, with regards to even knowing that you needed a permit to hike the narrows.  But, from what I've been able to find about Zion, we can then just hop a bus, and get dropped off at the trailhead and hike Angel's Landing?  That was my other must do hike.  Mapquest has North Rim, AZ to Zion at about 3+ hours, so we should be able get there by 10:00AM and see if we can snag a site.

Regarding the GC, I remember your trip report with your son while back, so you have some knowledge about it.  Not sure if you are familiar the north rim at all, but I was planning on hiking down North Kaibab Trail to Cottonwood.  Looks like a 10-12mi RT.  Would you recommend that as a long, scenic day hike, and are there any others you'd suggest as well?

Other folks are welcomed and encouraged to chime in.
Thanks in advance.

I missed this post, sorry!

You don't need a permit to hike the Narrows bottom-up. It's a very reasonable dayhike through Wall Street, up to Big Spring, and the scenery is spectacular.  Don't miss doing the Narrows just because you don't get a permit; it's a great hike.

Yes, just get off at the Grotto for Angel's Landing.  Also easy to tack on Emerald Pools at the end.

This is a great website for Zion hikes (dayhikes, backpacks and canyoneering):
http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/hiking.cfm

I haven't done North Kaibab but it's 7 miles to Cottonwood campground.  You'll want to get to Ribbon Falls, btw.  14 miles in the Grand Canyon is a hefty dayhike.  If it's a reasonable day temperature-wise, hike down to Ribbon Falls in the morning and wait out the middle of the day before hiking back out.  Take a headlamp just in case.

North Rim dayhikes:
http://www.hitthetrail.com/north-rim-day-hikes

I love the Esplanade area off the North Rim but the trailheads are pretty remote and I honestly don't know what it's like in summer.  Trailheads would be Monument Point (Bill Hall trail) or Indian Hollow (Thunder River trail.)  It is where the kid died a few years ago, just below the Esplanade in Surprise Valley.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 6:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Regarding Fiery Furnace, yes, you can do it without a guide.  But, you still have to sign in for a permit at the visitors center.  Can't remember the cost, but it wasn't much.  Topo map will not help in there.  It is like a maze.  I did that with my wife one year, and it was fun.  I like to go in one way, and work my way out another.  Watch off for dropoffs, and be ready to backtrack if you get cliffed in.  If you want to see features like Skull Arch, you will want a guide.  I tried for 3 hours to find that feature based on a ranger's description at the visitors center, and would have needed a guide to find it.  Those fins are so close together that I don't think a topo would have helped me find that particular feature.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 10:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also, if the heat is getting to you -- both Zion and the Moab area have nearby high country that allows you to sleep cool and high, do your low hikes before the afternoon heat sets in.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 6:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ir0nma1den @ Jun. 17 2013, 10:54 am)
QUOTE
I've just about booked everything, but I have one more question.

I'm deadset on doing the Fiery Furnace, but I would prefer to do it without a guide. Would bring a topo map and a smart phone GPS suffice?

Maps and GPS are useless in the Fiery Furnace. There are a couple of guide books that attempt to show the route through - I've found people in there trying to find their way with one of them and were completely turned around.  I guide trips through there every so often and there are always people in there that can't figure out where they are.
You can get a permit for 4.00 at the visitor center. You will have to watch a 5 min video about the fragile environment and safety in the FF.
A few things to keep in mind - there is no marked trail, only a route through. The NPS and commercial outfitters that lead tours will destroy rock cairns or markings in the sand that attempt to show the way.  
There are numerous side trails that go nowhere.
There are several large patches of poison ivy with false trails going right through them.
You are not to follow other groups (definitely NOT the NPS tours)
That being said, there are 50 permits a day available for public use. Most people go in a ways, wander around and head back out the way they came.
The route through is a 2.5 mile loop and there are several good sized arches in there.
Carry plenty of water. Avoid the noonday sun. Try to ignore the vultures.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 7:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Rather than hitting Vegas again in the middle of your trip, maybe consider the mountains around SLC instead for some cooler alpine air?  Or some time in the higher country near Flagstaff.

Glad you added Bryce in, it's definitely worth a visit but IMO doesn't warrant a separate trip there, so as long as you're in the area...

If you're doing the Subway hike, I'm not sure what more the Narrows would offer, so you might consider just a short after dinner walk up the Narrows, which is what we did and mostly had the place to ourselves near sunset.

Fiery Furnace: while it does kind of suck joining a tour group with 30 other people, I definitely would not want to try and navigate in there, especially on a first visit.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 10:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've been on two guided tours of the Fiery Furnace and both were excellent.  I'm very comfortable and experienced hiking off trail through most desert areas - but the Fiery Furnace is not a place I would do so, especially on a first visit!  Topo maps are useless for that area.

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