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Topic: For those that love the Owen's Valley< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2014, 5:56 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

From a friend who lives up there...

"Solar here, in the virtually undisturbed Owens Valley, is a threat to all that makes it special - open space, stunning mountains, history, a working landscape of ranch lands. Inyo County is proposing to support opening the door wide to solar here in the Owens Valley and thus permanently change the landscape of a place that has suffered enough through the years. Oppose the Inyo County efforts to open large tracks of our valley to landscape-destroying solar. Solar is good and there are places for it, but not here in one of the most outstanding scenic areas on the planet. The Inyo County Board of Supervisors decides this issue at their meeting in Independence March 18th. Be a voice there or write them at Inyo County BOS, Box N, Independence, CA 93526."

There have been lots of articles lately - here's one:

http://www.inyoregister.com/node/5704


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2014, 6:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That IS sort of ridiculous: the difference in available sunny days is minuscule between Bishop and Los Angeles (add in "partly sunny" and Los Angeles has MORE!) and the point about transmission loss is another relevant aspect it seems to me.

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather....ine.php

Heck, cover the freeways!
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2014, 10:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Put those goddamned things on every roof in the country! Problem freaking solved.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2014, 8:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I suppose they'd rather have a nuclear plant?
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2014, 9:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

On rooftops and parking lots and on land already disturbed...  Heck, I saw a picture once of solar cells built over aqueducts - LA certainly has their fair share of those.  Shade the aqueducts and thus slow the rate of water evaporation and generate power at the same time.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2014, 9:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lots of good stuff here and a petition to sign:

http://www.deepestvalley.com/category/community-voices/


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2014, 5:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Owens-Valley-Committee/343075152466584


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2014, 10:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And my sis' blog

http://owensrivergirl.com/2014/03/08/757/


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 09 2014, 11:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.planetforward.org/idea....-energy

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011....gs&_r=0

The panels would also be open to salt corrosion, sand blasting and dust covering them.  I'm wondering if the engineers designing the things ever spent a summer (or winter) there.

Aqueducts seem a viable option.  Even tho much of it is remote and the wiring would be cumbersome and long, the right of way, concrete footings already exist and they can float supplies to the work site as they move down stream.

The Ca Aqueduct already has a 100 mile bike path (now closed) for access (Hey! They've built bigger things using mules) and they can use pontoons for temporary construction support.  Call the Seabees for large scale water course pontoon river crossing consultation.  They're know for engineering marvels since at least WW II.

The LA Aqueduct has 37 miles of open concrete water course.  Lemme see:  37 mi times 50' wide times 5280' per mile... um carry the 3 count the toes....  That's a BAZILLION kilowatts at least on something nobody even sees.  AND there is a connection to the power grid at every pumping station.  So, granted, there is a bit of a challenge to maintain it.  Amazon.com will provide the drones....


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 09 2014, 1:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Some news from the Ivanpah Solar Plant, which just opened but may be the last of its kind


http://articles.latimes.com/2014....0140302


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 09 2014, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Rooftop solar in LA could power half of CA - and create jobs to boot!

http://www.kcet.org/news....acebook


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 09 2014, 2:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tarol @ Mar. 09 2014, 10:26 am)
QUOTE
Some news from the Ivanpah Solar Plant, which just opened but may be the last of its kind


http://articles.latimes.com/2014....0140302

Last of its kind of boiler based, with the noted "plunging price of photovoltaic cells", so a different tech but similar sun seeking installations...

The covering of the aqueduct seems a good one. There's already the precedent that the water authority uses the aqueduct to generate electrical power, they leverage the drop in elevation to run electrical generating turbines  to generate a significant amount of power. So I could see them being open to solar, and shading the water would seem to have to reduce evaporative loss and they are a water business....
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 10 2014, 11:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is a TPA subject (I haven't checked if you posted it over there). My understanding of solar power, as a guy who works for the electric company, is that it's still not profitable apart from tons of government money inticing businesses to invest in it. And of course there's the issue of power only being generated during the middle of the day. Current projections are for so much solar power to be generated in CA that other sources will be driven out of business, causing a shortage of power every day at dawn & dusk. This shortage will have to be made up by new coal, gas, or hydro facilities that nobody wants in their backyards.

I'm not believing in these projections because solar generating equipment requires maintenance that further eats into the profits. The problem with putting solar panels on everybody's houses is that most people won't take care of them and the potential will never be realized. Do you want your electric supply relying on some guy in east LA who doesn't mow his grass?

But besides that, Owens Valley is a big place and they only want to use a few hundred acres. Solar fields have minimal impact on wildlife and are easily dismantled so there's no long-term environmental impact.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 10 2014, 11:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Solar's water consumption is rather high for an area even further pushed into desert by the city's water withdrawal....

and that's an environmental concern and impact, not political.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 11 2014, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Uh no more than a few hundred acres - read the plan

Definitely an environmental issue


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 11 2014, 4:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SPeacock @ Mar. 09 2014, 8:48 am)
QUOTE
http://www.planetforward.org/idea....-energy

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011....gs&_r=0

The panels would also be open to salt corrosion, sand blasting and dust covering them.  I'm wondering if the engineers designing the things ever spent a summer (or winter) there.

Aqueducts seem a viable option.  Even tho much of it is remote and the wiring would be cumbersome and long, the right of way, concrete footings already exist and they can float supplies to the work site as they move down stream.

The Ca Aqueduct already has a 100 mile bike path (now closed) for access (Hey! They've built bigger things using mules) and they can use pontoons for temporary construction support.  Call the Seabees for large scale water course pontoon river crossing consultation.  They're know for engineering marvels since at least WW II.

The LA Aqueduct has 37 miles of open concrete water course.  Lemme see:  37 mi times 50' wide times 5280' per mile... um carry the 3 count the toes....  That's a BAZILLION kilowatts at least on something nobody even sees.  AND there is a connection to the power grid at every pumping station.  So, granted, there is a bit of a challenge to maintain it.  Amazon.com will provide the drones....

Yes the site on the Owens lakebed seems especially ironic: it's getting touted as a dust mitigation measure? Like the Mars rover solar panels they're going to get coated and degraded in performance rather fast: unless as part of the plan, probably really, there's using lots and lots of wash water to clean them: hey water isn't an issue in the valley is it?.....
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 11 2014, 6:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've put my 2 cents into comments at several boards concerning the solar energy wars between solar energy supporters and what I see as manipulative environmentalists that twist the issue.   From the link one of the first sentences showed me which camp the author was from:

Any thinking person can see that California would be a better place if solar panels were integrated into the city.

If the environmental side would ever present a balanced argument addressing the pros and cons of the issue I might respect them more, however they regularly produce public statements like the linked article which read like propaganda.   For them, it all should go atop urban rooftops and the like.   One has to question such simply on the basis the solar farms have solid support from most in the California democratic party that have carefully studied the issue including governor Brown and senator Feinstein and all of Obama's federal people.   And note Feinstein blocked a lot of the proposed solar developments that did not pass her strict considerations.   Note the same arguments with slight variations are posed against ALL solar farms in Southern California which are mostly sited in desert areas.   All this is not too say some of those on development side are just in it for the money and looking rather dirty.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2009....ll&_r=0

Additionally there are many environmentalist that are fine with the solar farms though most are little guys like this person and not the juggernaut organizations with lawyers and media power.   The development interests have been jumping through as many whoops as necessary to satisfy those opposing.  However it is rather obvious the agenda of opponents is to toss out as many monkey wrenches as they can using whatever backdoor politics and lawyers to prevent solar much in the same way they are attacking any and all wind power farms and any mention of Southern California seawater desalination.  A typical tactic is to make it sound like those for these farms are all greedy big business corps with inside political connections.  The fact the environmentalists have been losing the battle has made some of them foam at the mouth resorting to more radical campaigns to sway the public making them sound like the good guys fighting injustice with evildoers.

As to the Owens farm in question, they make it sound like the whole Owens Valley is going to be in jeopardy.  Actually it is a reasonable site near US395 way south not far from dried up Owens Lake that has been used for decades so does not look natural with little scenic merit. More  recent government approvals:

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/article....71.html

http://earthtechling.com/2014....-desert


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2014, 7:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Little scenic merit?  Are you joking?  If you've been there looking up this huge valley and the 10,000' relief of the mountains it's gorgeous.  And it's a Nationally Significant Bird Area.  Parts of it are flooded now and they're hoping to flood more - to help the birds and the dust that resulted when LA started diverting all the water.

And it's not just one project they're talking, folks - what's being proposed is large-scale development in the Owens Valley.

Again, solar has merit, and its merits will only grow as technology grows.  But there are so many already disturbed sites that can support it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2014, 7:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here's Owen's Lake...  Photos by Robin Black

http://www.owenslakeproject.com/wp-cont....682.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos....-81JCL1


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2014, 8:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Luck with it Tarol. Maybe 7 years since I've been there, but still some vivid memories of "Deepest Valley".

I thought Andy Selters did quite well with his op-ed. His Glacier Travel (instruction book) is on my shelf.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 9:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think anyone who's driven up the valley once would be taken with it.  I've driven up and down it hundreds of times and every time I see something new.  But best of all are the views of the valley you get if you've climbed to one of the mountains on either side.  

The vote for REGPA has been postponed until April 1st -- March 18th will now be a workshop.

Lots of new letters being posted to the Deepest Valley site everyday - it's interesting to read the letters from such diverse sources.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 3:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tarol @ Mar. 12 2014, 4:02 pm)
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Little scenic merit?  Are you joking?  If you've been there looking up this huge valley and the 10,000' relief of the mountains it's gorgeous.  And it's a Nationally Significant Bird Area.  Parts of it are flooded now and they're hoping to flood more - to help the birds and the dust that resulted when LA started diverting all the water.

And it's not just one project they're talking, folks - what's being proposed is large-scale development in the Owens Valley.

Again, solar has merit, and its merits will only grow as technology grows.  But there are so many already disturbed sites that can support it.


tarol, as to the scenic merit, my comment was only addressing the specific views from the proposed solar site and not at all about Owens Valley in general.  Obviously I am long time fan of Owens Valley scenery and have done lots of serious photography there looking up at the magnificent mountains.  My sentence was obviously confusing as I should have wrote the solar site is over 15 miles north of Owens Lake.  It is good to see the lake bed restoration is doing well.

One can bring up Google Earth and see why it is not the scenery from that site that has been promotted as an issue.  Well of course the author of that article you linked to wanted to make it sound like the whole valley was under attack for obvious reasons stirring all manner of people up.  That is the kind of public relations tactic I am critical of.   The backlash on the project has been about the historical issue.  One that has not been convincing despite obvious emotional reaction of some.   As to additional projects, have not heard of any?

Snippet from:

http://www.kcet.org/news....te.html

LADWP's Southern Owens Valley Solar Ranch would occupy 1,200 acres (1.875 square miles) on Manzanar-Reward Road. That's immediately east of the site of the former Manzanar War Relocation Center, often referred to as a concentration camp, where 11,070 Americans of Japanese ancestry were forcibly interned during World War II. The solar plant, which would be 50 percent larger than the National Historic Site itself, would sit atop the camp's historic landfill, which has never been fully surveyed for archaeological resources, according to advocacy group the Manzanar Committee, which lobbied successfully for the site to be protected by the National Park Service through the 1980s and 1990s.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 6:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Page 32 has a summary of projects: LADWP has two, the Manzanar site and one on the Owens Lake lakebed:

http://www.inyoplanning.org/project....ort.pdf

That was as of Oct. 2013
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 7:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Owens Valley can be defined, dryly, as a 100-mile long by 6-to-20-mile (~18 average) wide drop in the earth's crust between two large faults at the eastern base of the Sierra Nevada and at the western base of the Inyo mountains. The valley reaches north to the Volcanic Tablelands and south past the Haiwee Reservoir. The Ovens Valley thus comprises ~1800 square miles.

LADWP's Southern Owens Valley Solar Ranch would occupy 1.875 square miles on Manzanar-Reward Road. That's immediately east of the site of the former Manzanar War Relocation Center, often referred to as a concentration camp, where 11,070 Americans of Japanese ancestry were forcibly interned during World War.

While disturbed, irked about the site chosen - (solar site obscenely too close to Manzanar), still there is a lot of open land  available elsewhere in the OV -  
asking for only 0.1%.

Local jobs, solar energy, dust abatement...A slippery slope?
A bit undecided still...Mammoth Lakes


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 7:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How much excess water is there for maintaining the arrays? At other desert solar sites the water withdrawal applications have triggered a lot of the opposition. The water is used to keep the panels at peak efficiency by keeping them dust free....
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 11:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That issue has gotten considerable engineering research for the last half dozen years.  Here is just one waterless robot solution already implemented.

http://green.tmcnet.com/topics....bot.htm


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2014, 11:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"it is sure to be a market hit."

Translation: This hasn't actually been installed by anyone. Let alone on an industrial scale.

But, speculation and theory aside: is there information on the two LADWP projects regarding water useage?

ETA: odds are it will be in the Solar Ranch DEIR. Which, total boo, I somehow can't link to. The links keep hitting a. "Can I help you" LADWP page.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 12:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yay, here's the environmental reports.

https://www.ladwp.com/ladwp....kxx_119
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2014, 6:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They aren't only asking for 0.1% folks - and it's not just about these two sites - read the General Plan Amendment - it's 10%

Water, dust, traffic, habitat destruction, and most disturbing perhaps is the plan's questionable reasoning and contradictory claims about the historical importance, critical habitat, and viewshed impacts are all things that should be concerning to everyone


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 16 2014, 8:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks to a friend who lives up there for clarifying - Right now they're looking at developing all LADWP land east of the Owen's River between Lone Pine and Independence

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