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Topic: Fracking near the Beartooths< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 7:52 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This looks potentially bad to me: Billings Gazette article
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 10:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bad.  I would be an unmitigated disaster.  I read this article this morning and was sick.  The CEO claims he would like to make the region look like the Bakken and "fundamentally change" the area.  Do you guys have any idea of what the Bakken is or looks like?  What was basically a rural agricultural area has been transformed into an industrial nightmare.  Truck traffic, crime, drug use, prostitution and just about any form of vice one can imagine is wide open. Living accommodations are almost impossible to find.  But then, no one plans on living there indefinitely.  It's just take the money and run. Working conditions are deplorable, except for the money that is.  The infrastructure is overwhelmed and just not there to support the development and the oil companies car little about it. It's all about profit.  And then there's the delightful prospect of pumping millions of gallons of toxic chemicals into the groundwater system through the fracking process into one of the most pristine and spectacular areas of the country.  It will absolutely ruin the area.  I've been to the Bakken, and believe me, we don't want it or need it here.  Rest assured that local, and I hope, national environmental organizations will mount a major fight against this travesty.  But when your up against the combined might of the energy industry and local "developers" , it's be a tough battle.  But we'll fight it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 2:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Absolutely pathetic that the CEO of an energy company is so clueless. Like Jer, I hope locals can find common cause against this development.

There have been lawsuits over water rights in that area between Montana and Wyoming for years. The development in the region already seems to be draining aquifers that recharge rivers used for irrigation downstream. (See Water War: Stakes high in Montana-Wyoming legal battle.) Better than this energy company is tied up in court for years than allowed to carry through on its plans.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 10:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Oct. 25 2013, 2:13 pm)
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Absolutely pathetic that the CEO of an energy company is so clueless. Like Jer, I hope locals can find common cause against this development.

There have been lawsuits over water rights in that area between Montana and Wyoming for years. The development in the region already seems to be draining aquifers that recharge rivers used for irrigation downstream. (See Water War: Stakes high in Montana-Wyoming legal battle.) Better than this energy company is tied up in court for years than allowed to carry through on its plans.

Jeeze, I really hope so.  The CEO isn't clueless at all.  He just sees dollar signs and that's all that matters.  I imagine the public uproar will be huge.  Somethings are sacred.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 10:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The problem is many will see these oil fields as a way to wean off foreign supply and not understand what it does to the area. And those who do understand may well think it's better to.... sacrifice... a smaller area to achieve that goal.  Kinda like ANWR... "nobody really uses it so what's the big deal?" instead of understanding what will be lost forever.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 12:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What unbridled arrogance.  Essentially, "we're going to fundamentally alter your way of life, and you're going to like it."

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 12:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ain't it fun to be in flyover country?

What is the matter MLW?  These companies are just maximizing their profits, right?

You don't want big government to limit their freedom to get rich, do you?

John Galt might be a major shareholder for all you know!   :p


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 1:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Get used to it !!

It's been SOP on the Front Range of CO for ~ 10 yrs and has fueled the move for Weld County, to fracture from the State, and start the new state of  "Northern Colorado" so they can keep all of the new oil $$$$$$$$ in their private back yards.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 11:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(swimswithtrout @ Oct. 25 2013, 11:43 pm)
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Get used to it !! . . .

Some of us are used to it. That is why we denounce it.

Wyoming, at much smaller land area, is second only to Texas in energy production, and far ahead of Colorado. The energy company at the head of the project isn't just planning near the Beartooths but near the Bighorns as well.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 2:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

1. This angers me greatly. Lets spend that money not on drilling but on solar tech.

2. It does make me happy that I'm not driven purely by money/profit/greed. Some places just shouldn't be developed and I like that.

3. It also makes me sad that there are people in much better position than I to make decisions that have permanent consequences that are driven purely by the desire for more money.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 7:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Instead of "getting used to it", let's try to prevent it.  Here's a Facebook page with some info: NoFrackingTheBeartoothFront
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2013, 10:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 25 2013, 10:25 pm)
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What is the matter MLW?  These companies are just maximizing their profits, right?

You don't want big government to limit their freedom to get rich, do you?

John Galt might be a major shareholder for all you know!   :p

Oh gee. What was I thinking? I couldn't possibly believe what I said because it doesn't fit in the little box you insist on putting me in.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2013, 1:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 26 2013, 10:03 pm)
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(wwwest @ Oct. 25 2013, 10:25 pm)
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What is the matter MLW?  These companies are just maximizing their profits, right?

You don't want big government to limit their freedom to get rich, do you?

John Galt might be a major shareholder for all you know!   :p

Oh gee. What was I thinking? I couldn't possibly believe what I said because it doesn't fit in the little box you insist on putting me in.

Hey, there are a lot of things that I disagree with MLW on, but there's no doubt in my mind that he loves the mountains and the wilderness. I'm pretty confident that he would do all he could to protect them.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2013, 2:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Oct. 27 2013, 1:21 pm)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 26 2013, 10:03 pm)
QUOTE

(wwwest @ Oct. 25 2013, 10:25 pm)
QUOTE
What is the matter MLW?  These companies are just maximizing their profits, right?

You don't want big government to limit their freedom to get rich, do you?

John Galt might be a major shareholder for all you know!   :p

Oh gee. What was I thinking? I couldn't possibly believe what I said because it doesn't fit in the little box you insist on putting me in.

Hey, there are a lot of things that I disagree with MLW on, but there's no doubt in my mind that he loves the mountains and the wilderness. I'm pretty confident that he would do all he could to protect them.

Well, assuming that is true, and it probably is, he should do some serious reassesment on his extreme libertarian political beliefs.

If you want to take collective action to protect our beloved mountains, streams and wilderness areas, then you need to stand up and support strong central government that can accomplish those goals.

You can't have effective protection of the wilderness without big governement that can get the job done.

The compartmentalization of personal preferences doesn't work that way, IMO.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2013, 5:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ECA has nothing to be proud of from their activities in the Clarks Fork area of Wyoming. Look up Ecancana (CA) and Pavillion WY to get a look at shallow formation fracking in the western Basins.
The best outfits to fight the threat to the Beartooth's is groups  allied with Western Organization of Resource Councils out of Billings. WORC They are grass roots community based organizations that put affected citizens first.
I don't work for them but did take their community organizing workshops they put their staff through.
And Senator Barry Goldwater R-AZ stopped Big Water in AZ from damming the Grand Canyon at Marble and Black Canyon on the Colorado in the mid-60's. John McCain (R-AZ) and Mo Udall (D-AZ) together saved hundreds of thousands acres of BLM wilderness in Arizona with permanent protection.
I worked the Williston Basin in the70'-80's and have family in Williston at this moment with a thriving business, for as long as the boom lasts or moves west and south. I was up there last Thanksgiving and it is everything HikerJer laid out and there is a mob in Montana and Wall Street eager to sell out the Beartoothis for the same perdition. It is really insatiable greed versus a land and cultural ethic rather than a left-right struggle.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2013, 5:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(blue_sage @ Oct. 27 2013, 5:00 pm)
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It is really insatiable greed versus a land and cultural ethic rather than a left-right struggle.

That my friends, is the crux of the issue.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2013, 9:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
his extreme libertarian political beliefs.

And.... wrong again.
I'm a liberally conservative (nominal) libertarian.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 6:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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extreme libertarian political beliefs.


BTW, you have no idea of what extreme libertarianism is if you think I am.

While Rand may have been a fruitcake, she had a valid point. What happens to a socialist society if/when those who provide the primary support for that system decide to walk away?

And a true socialist such as yourself really should support industry such as fracking since it's "for the public good".


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 11:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 28 2013, 6:30 am)
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fracking since it's "for the public good".

Surely you jest.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 12:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If it is functional socialist society and promotes progress and happiness who would walk away?

You western Libertarian wet dreamers live in constant fear don't you?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 2:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Walk away like Ayn Rand did in last years, on public health care and Social Security!

So far there is no where to walk away to.  We are all stuck on this little mud ball until the aliens decide to share their space travel technology with us, neh?

I guess one could be like Edward Snowden and try living in the Moscow airport!

:p


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 9:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Oct. 28 2013, 9:24 am)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Oct. 28 2013, 6:30 am)
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fracking since it's "for the public good".

Surely you jest.

Yes. I'd sooner go without that do what they want to

But isn't a prime socialist goal to produce the greatest good for the greatest number of people? And wouldn't reducing US dependence on imported oil be for the greater good of all?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 9:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Oct. 28 2013, 10:32 am)
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If it is functional socialist society and promotes progress and happiness who would walk away?

You western Libertarian wet dreamers live in constant fear don't you?

I'm a small "l" libertarian. Different than a big "L" Libertarian.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2013, 9:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Walk away as in stop participating. Close their businesses and cash out everything. What would happen?

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 2:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Christ you guys can't even agree on the fact that this would be terrible for the area without lashing into each other....its no wonder its hard to accomplish anything anymore.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 12:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wanderingthetooths @ Oct. 29 2013, 2:11 am)
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Christ you guys can't even agree on the fact that this would be terrible for the area without lashing into each other....its no wonder its hard to accomplish anything anymore.

Always has been!

The very hardest thing about democracy is herding the humans, we just head off in every direction at once, far worse than cats.

Muddling through is a tough process, but we do have the National Parks, and the Wilderness Areas, and a few remaining Wild Rivers.

Sometimes we get something done right, and let us keep trying to do so with the Beartooths.  I am going to head that way early next summer, just to see it while I still can.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 12:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here's a link  to the Carbon County Resource Council, who are fighting the fracking.

And here's a new Billings Gazette article.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 01 2013, 11:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

That's the American experiment. Been that way since the beginning. If you don't believe it, study the 1790's.

Ideologically divided on most everything.

Its the worst from of governance until you consider all the options.

People expect too much out of concepts such as freedom, choice and democracy.

We are actually irrational thinking social primates. Doesn't matter who gets elected.

Kind of shows huh?
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