SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 3123>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Please Sign the Petition to Repeal the Fee!?, Great Smoky Mountains National Park< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2013, 1:02 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Please read and sign the petition to repeal the backcountry fee for the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.  This is important to us now and for future generations.  If you think this is not going to affect public lands in outlying areas think again. I just read where Citico is beginning to charge for primitive sites! They are following suit behind the Smokies in charging fees.

Fees for a spot to merely place your tent.

The fee in the Smokies is a test run for other fees affecting ALL of us.. it will spread like a cancer.

Vote NO CONFIDENCE toward Dale Ditmanson and the current corrupt administration for he/they clearly do not care what we say as the public.  Time to make it count, son!

Sign Petition to Repeak Back country fees!


--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 2
quietone Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 341
Joined: Nov. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2013, 6:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

signed and sent  also forwarded to those within my circle.

--------------
Find your path and share it.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2013, 6:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks Quietone. I appreciate the participation. It is for the benefit of all!

--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 4
chief1 Search for posts by this member.
Labeck
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2013, 8:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

so, I have tried to fill out the petition more than 3 times. but every time when I hit sign it goes to web page cannot be found. wuwt!

--------------
The Best thing to do behind a Friends back is to Pat it.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 5
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2013, 8:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sorry Chief, Thanks for trying.  I don't know what the deal is. I'm using Firefox and it let me sign the 1st time I tried.  I know some were having trouble signing while using mobile devices.

--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 6
null Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 702
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2013, 9:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well I personally support the fees.  While it may be true that there are no "amenities" in the traditional sense, I am looking forward to campsites that are not overcrowded or abused and a greater ranger presence.  Are access roads in the park or trail signs considered amenities?  Trail crews?  Search & Rescue?  Bear Cables?  Law enforcement?  While I can't say for sure how the fees are to be used, all these things we take for granted are not free.

I know people who use the park frequently are complaining how expensive it is, but let's say you spend oh 100 nights in the park at $4 per night.  That's $400, which is the same price as some fancy hotel rooms for a single night, and you're practically living there in this example.

Finally, every time you hear tax protestors screaming about government waste, what exactly do you think they consider waste?  How about National Parks Budgets?  The truth is that the wilderness and back country are considered "wasteful government spending" to most people.


--------------
Lose Weight Backpacking
http://www.fitpacking.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 7
pastywhite Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1585
Joined: May 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2013, 10:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Null, the fee doesn't buy more rangers, trail crews, parking lots, or roads.The money does not to go into the general fund. It is only being used to pay for the reservation system. Initially we were told it would fund a few seasonal positions but that was removed before the fee was started.

This is exactly the type of waste we should be getting rid of. Only a government entity would come up with a fee that only pays for the fee collection system.

This is like a toll road that only pays for the toll booth.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 9:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Pastywhite, ULightbandit, I gotta say THANKS. BIG THANKS for jumping in here and helping back me up on this.  I am worn out behind this.  Ulight said it best when he stated that he did not think it was possible to explain it to these non locals especially Westerners.  If you are not a Southerner and a local person who has seen first hand the good ole boy system in place and at work down here.. Cronyism at its ugliest.... you just can't get it.

I heard from someone I will not name the other day and they are genuinely having to be careful out of fear of retaliation from high up.  Some of what has happened to this person may be coincidental, but I've never believed in coincidence.


--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 9
UlightBandit Search for posts by this member.
ROAR!!!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2634
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 2:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I haven't been able to get the petition site to work for the last few days.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 2:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ulight, I have not had problems with it. If you would.. post the error message you get on here?  The author is asking to see the errors so he can find a remedy.

--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 11
UlightBandit Search for posts by this member.
ROAR!!!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2634
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 2:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The error isn't in accessing the site.
It comes when you click sign.  It navigates you to another page that "can't be displayed", and then if you re-load the site, it is obvious your signature hasn't been included in the count.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 2:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Grr! I have a feeling this is seriously impeding the participation.  This needs to be fixed quickly.

--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 13
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2271
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 4:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It worked fine for me. After I clicked "sign" it kicked me to a change.org page showing that I had signed. 49 more signatures needed.

I am using Firefox.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
magicmomma Search for posts by this member.
Wildest Flower in Tennessee
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 4:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bass, thanks for signing! I am also using firefox. I know one lady was having trouble and it turned out to be a problem with the mobile device she was trying with.

--------------
"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 15
etncaver Search for posts by this member.
Where's da basket?
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 54
Joined: Apr. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 4:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I had the same trouble yesterday that Ulight had, but I was using IE8 at work. My iphone got the job done without any problem though.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
liv4mtns Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 692
Joined: Jan. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 5:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I signed yesterday using FF with no problems.

--------------
Kevin.

Bozeman MT / Winder GA.



http://kevinboyer.zenfolio.com/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
pastywhite Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1585
Joined: May 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2013, 8:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I used Chrome with no problem
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
swimswithtrout Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7975
Joined: Jan. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 12:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

While I understand your concern, I never knew that GSNP DIDN'T require backcountry fees.

In the past 30-40 yrs of backpacking across the US, I've never seen  "A Park", be it National, State, or County to NOT charge for an overnight stay, front country or back......

Here in CO, the most popular NF Wilderness area also require a pass for an overnight stay.

I'd just be glad they haven't shut down the  whole Park with all of the sequestration cuts !


--------------
Want to see The Wind River Range in widescreen 1080p ?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 12:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
especially Westerners. If you are not a Southerner and a local person who has seen first hand the good ole boy system in place and at work down here.. Cronyism at its ugliest.... you just can't get it.

Right. None of us "westerners" could possibly get it. Even though I grew up in Blacksburg VA and hiked and backpacked all over the region.

You're spouting garbage. One doesn't have be "a southerner" to get it.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
cgaphiker Search for posts by this member.
Hen Wallow Falls
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11383
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 3:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Apr. 26 2013, 12:20 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
especially Westerners. If you are not a Southerner and a local person who has seen first hand the good ole boy system in place and at work down here.. Cronyism at its ugliest.... you just can't get it.

Right. None of us "westerners" could possibly get it. Even though I grew up in Blacksburg VA and hiked and backpacked all over the region.

You're spouting garbage. One doesn't have be "a southerner" to get it.

Yep, no good ol' boys out west.  :;):

I'm against the fees because they put a significant financial burden on the least frequent users of the park. A buck or two a night increase in front country site fees would bring in more cash. That is where they spent most/all of the stimulus money.
I'm not totally against user fees, and I understand why the res system would be useful to out of town visitors. I just don't feel that these fees are fair or equitable.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
reubenstump Search for posts by this member.
Lago Grey
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sep. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 26 2013, 4:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Every time I see this thread I think it says "Repeal the Feel".  And while I'm not a westerner, I still don't get it.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
mossy Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 927
Joined: Aug. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I signed that thing (and would sign it 200 times, if I could). It's BS.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
Tuttle Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 133
Joined: Jul. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 11:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(pastywhite @ Apr. 23 2013, 9:33 pm)
QUOTE
Null, the fee doesn't buy more rangers, trail crews, parking lots, or roads.The money does not to go into the general fund. It is only being used to pay for the reservation system. Initially we were told it would fund a few seasonal positions but that was removed before the fee was started.

This is exactly the type of waste we should be getting rid of. Only a government entity would come up with a fee that only pays for the fee collection system.

This is like a toll road that only pays for the toll booth.

This
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
Indianabob Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 306
Joined: Oct. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: May 06 2013, 7:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I was able to sign today using Firefox without any problem.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43821
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: May 07 2013, 6:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tuttle @ May 01 2013, 8:11 am)
QUOTE

(pastywhite @ Apr. 23 2013, 9:33 pm)
QUOTE
Null, the fee doesn't buy more rangers, trail crews, parking lots, or roads.The money does not to go into the general fund. It is only being used to pay for the reservation system. Initially we were told it would fund a few seasonal positions but that was removed before the fee was started.

This is exactly the type of waste we should be getting rid of. Only a government entity would come up with a fee that only pays for the fee collection system.

This is like a toll road that only pays for the toll booth.

This

Except the when toll booth manages the traffic, which is the very point.

Getting the designated camping sites on a reservation system opens them up for everyone. Instead of having to chance there's an openning by just showing up at an office... much less of an option for all but locals.

It should be revenue neutral I do agree, not something to make money OFF of. So that will have to be watched and proved.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
gjbu Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 130
Joined: Nov. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: May 07 2013, 7:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There is not that much traffic in the park. Other than AT and places such as leconte it is not uncommon to have backcountry sites to yourself.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
pastywhite Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1585
Joined: May 2009
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 6:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

HSF - I just don't get why you are so dead set on a fee that you'll probably never have to pay. The entire thing is just silly. Most of these sites didn't need a reservation before this fee. There was no advantage for locals or anyone else. If you wanted to camp at campsite 18 you just drove to Tremont, filled out the permit at the self serve kiosk and walked to the campsite. Now is costs $4/night and you get nothing more than when it was free.

Oh, and tolls do not regulate traffic, they pay for roads. It's a fund raising tool. You actually get something for your toll beyond the ability to pay the toll.

Some people have never met a tax they don't support.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 6:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Some people have never met a tax they don't support.

No, some believe in user fees. You use it, you pay for it. You don't, you don't. Otherwise non-users are subsidizing your activity.

You think you should have to support free-to-use off-road vehicle areas? Same thing.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
UlightBandit Search for posts by this member.
ROAR!!!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2634
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 8:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 08 2013, 6:53 am)
QUOTE
No, some believe in user fees.

Its not a user fee.
There are hundreds of different "users" of the park who do not pay fees.  Fishermen, Hikers, Birdwatchers, Horseback riders, auto tourists etc, etc....
I can see it being called a user fee if all cars where stopped at park entrances and paid a fee, because, even people who are just driving through the park are using it.

This is a reservation system fee.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
mossy Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 927
Joined: Aug. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 10:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 08 2013, 6:53 am)
QUOTE
No, some believe in user fees. You use it, you pay for it. You don't, you don't.

I pay Federal taxes to support the Interior department. I partake of the activities permitted within the lands managed by the Interior department as part of my right as a Federal-tax paying US citizen. I should not have to pay, again, for what I have already paid for. "User fee" is a euphemism for double taxation, in this case, plain and simple.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
63 replies since Apr. 22 2013, 1:02 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 3123>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Please Sign the Petition to Repeal the Fee!?
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions