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Topic: Cumberland Trail Conference Dissolved, Replaced With TTA Committee ( CCT )< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 9:30 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Effective May 3, 2014 the Tennessee Trails Association ( TTA ) Board voted unanimously to reorganize and dissolve Cumberland Trail Conference (CTC). The TTA bylaws allows for dissolution of an associate organization. All monies, financial assets, records and property in the possession of CTC are hereby transferred to TTA as of this date.

The TTA board then voted unanimously to establish a new committee, the Committee for the Cumberland Trail (CCT). The Committee for the Cumberland Trail (CCT) will work with the State of Tennessee, the Cumberland Trail State Park management, the Friends of the Cumberland Trail State Park and other interested organizations to complete the Cumberland Trail.

The TTA Board feels that this reorganization will facilitate the next phase of development of the Cumberland Trail. Almost 200 miles of the 300-plus mile trail are now complete and available for the public to hike. The task of maintaining the constructed trail has increased as the miles of trail has increased. It has been more difficult for the volunteer base to keep up. As a result, it has been necessary to plan for the state's existing staff of professional full-time trail builders to increase greatly.

Completing the construction of the Cumberland Trail - plus maintaining the trail already constructed - requires a renewed effort on the part of TTA and the State of Tennessee. Dissolving the associate organization and reorganizing the effort brings the Cumberland Trail to the forefront of TTA's membership. This should help bring in more much needed volunteer participation as the work to close the gaps and eliminate the "road walks" accelerates.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 10:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

that is a mistake...the trail will suffer
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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 10:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

why do you say so, out of curiousity?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

because Tony and the CTC volunteers did most if not all of the work on the Cumberland Trail. They are the ones who got the donations to build the bridges across the streams/gorge.

follow the link to the petition. Sign it and pass it on to your friends.

Please Governor Investigate The Role TDEC Officials Had In Influencing The Tennessee Trails Association (TTA) To Dissolve The Cumberland Trail Conference (CTC)


http://www.change.org/petitio....etition
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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

that's interesting. what's the TTA's reasoning? what's the point of dissolving CTC just to replace it with CTT?  at the very least, it seems like they're pissing off the most out-going advocates of the trail.

the link is acting screwy for some reason but it works if you copy and paste:

www.change.org/petitions/gov-bill-haslam-please-governor-investigate-the-role-tdec-officials-had-in-influencing-the
-tennessee-trails-association-tta-to-dissolve-the-cumberland-trail-conference-ctc


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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 2:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

sounds like someone didn't get along with Tony Hook.

here is part of some emails I got.

I am writing this to ask you to investigate the role TDEC officials had in influencing the Tennessee Trails Association to dissolve the Cumberland Trail Conference (CTC).  I was a member of both organizations, the TTA and the CTC, and I’ve been appalled at hearing about the secret meetings between the TTA and TDEC and just for the record I don’t hold any office with either the TTA or the CTC but I did donate over 500 volunteer hours over the past year to help build and maintain the Cumberland Trail State Park along with countless other volunteers, many being college students from across the country.  It’s a sad day in Tennessee when these type of backroom deals are made to kill a fine organization like the CTC.  Below you will see that I’ve pasted an email which I have directed at the base membership of the CTC as well as my fellow members of the local TTA Chapter in hopes of getting them to consider halting their volunteer efforts on the Cumberland Trail as well as any membership they may hold with the TTA until this travesty is corrected.

I respectfully ask for your time and consideration into this matter.

Hi,

We’ve probably never met but if you’re still a member of the CTC I would like to take a minute or so of your time and discuss the travesty that has been forced upon us by the current leadership of the TTA.  If you’re aware of the “Hostile Takeover” as I would call it or the “Dissolution” as the leadership of the TTA would call it of the Cumberland Trail Conference and you have no problem with that, then you should just delete this email now because this email isn’t directed towards you and you have a perfect right to your own opinion as do I.

I retired approximately 2 years ago and was diagnosed with a type of Leukemia back in 2010 so my Doctor recommended at that time exercise and plenty of it to help possibly slow the effects of this blood disease.  Once I retired I searched on the web and found the Soddy Daisy Chapter of the TTA and after hiking with the fine folks of that chapter decided to join the TTA.  Primarily they were hiking the trails around the Soddy area which just happened to be called the Cumberland Trail.  I enjoyed hiking so much on these trails I felt the need to give back to the organization that helped to build and maintain these magnificent trails and that’s how I got involved with the CTC.  Tony Hook’s commitment to the CT was legendary and his passion was contagious, so much so that I started working for three weeks of the Spring Break Away in 2013 and continued up through April of this year and had accumulated over 500 hours of volunteer time.  Tony left last year after butting heads with the General Manager of the CT State Park and many times burning his bridges with TDEC by working with local politicians to force TDEC to do what they should have been doing for the Cumberland Trail all along.  As Tony recently stated “I led the CTC and had to push, pull, and drag the CT State park along”.  When I first heard of the Dissolution of the CTC and its’ Board I couldn’t believe that an organization like the TTA which was founded 31 years ago by some men of vision—Evan Means, Bob Brown and Mack Prichard, who dreamed of an organization of volunteers who would develop a statewide system of hiking trails, conserve natural resources and educate the public about the value of wild places and hiking could do such a thing.  Personally I believe if those same men were alive today they would be appalled at what the current TTA leadership had done behind closed doors to destroy a fine organization like the CTC.  

On May 5th Carolyn Miller wrote:
The Tennessee Department of Conservation and the management of Tennessee State Parks accepted the offer that Tennessee Trails Association (TTA) is willing to take a lead role in the Cumberland Trail Project.  At the regularly scheduled TTA board meeting on May 3, 2014, the board discussed the matter of how to finish the Cumberland Trail and voted unanimously to accept a leadership role in the completion of the Cumberland Trail.  To facilitate the new role, the board voted unanimously to reorganize and dissolve Cumberland Trail Conference (CTC).  

What she didn’t state was how this all came about.  Many of the TTA leadership while sitting on both Boards (the TTA as well as the CTC) met with the Deputy Commissioner of TDEC, Brock Hill, and after conducting their meeting in secret came away from that meeting with the “impression” that Mr. Hill did not want to work with the CTC any longer and someone at that meeting apparently suggested that the TTA could take over the role of the CTC.  If TDEC didn’t want to work with the leadership of the CTC any longer all they had to do was cancel the “Memorandum of Understanding” between themselves and the CTC but they didn’t.  Now the TTA expects all of the CTC Volunteers to fall in line and accept their recent takeover and build trails for them just as we did with the CTC.  I’m sorry but even as much as I love the Cumberland Trail I can’t accept what has been done to the CTC and its’ Board.  There is not any Gray Area here, with what has been done to destroy such a worthwhile and dedicated organization and its’ leaders.  I’ve spent a number of hours working side by side with many of the CTC board members such as Judy Varner & husband TC and Gary Darnell, I’ve heard the vision they had for building and completing the Cumberland Trail and the people that helped to tear it down I can personally say I haven’t seen once on the CT devoting their time towards its’ completion but I promise you they will expect to see you and I out there because they are depending on us to give them our allegiance based on our love of the trail and our dream of seeing it completed.  As I told this same leadership in a Special Called Meeting by the TTA on May 10th, what they did was unprofessional and in my opinion unethical.  You don’t do people you call friends the way they treated the CTC Board.  Could it be all about the money, the CTC had at the end of March over $852,000 in Grants and Donations.  Do the TTA leaders really believe that all of that money would have been given to the CTC if those people that gave it had known that the CTC was going to be taken over by the TTA which has very little or no experience with what it takes to build trails?  There again, I don’t think so.

The only thing these leaders will understand is if we as a group of Volunteers refuse to work for them and if you’re also currently a member of the TTA like I am, just don’t renew your membership when it comes due.

I’m asking that if you’re as upset about this takeover as I am, please just send a simple email to our Governor, Bill Haslam, your local State Representatives and a copy to the TDEC Commissioner, Bob Martineau as well as the Deputy Commissioner of TDEC, Brock Hill and let them know that what has been done needs to be undone.  Thank you very much for your time.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 3:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ha......i was just with governor haslam about an hour ago...

didnt think to ask him about this, but then again, i know the answer ill get from him on it...
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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 6:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is a real pity that the same outfit that has seen it to 2/3 done is now being dissolved!  Looks like to me they've done well and should have been left alone to finish the task.   Ah politics.......... its like a pot of sh*t .. the more you stir it..

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PostIcon Posted on: May 31 2014, 4:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(magicmomma @ May 30 2014, 5:54 pm)
QUOTE
It is a real pity that the same outfit that has seen it to 2/3 done is now being dissolved!  Looks like to me they've done well and should have been left alone to finish the task.   Ah politics.......... its like a pot of sh*t .. the more you stir it..

Politics played a big part. And CTC HAD done well at one time. But I feel that in recent years that the CTC had stagnated. The membership, partly because of the difficulty in finding out about scheduled events - and the $25 membership fee imposed before a person was allowed to volunteer - had stagnated.

The website, a VERY important communication tool in recruitment of new members and providing information to hikers, had been allowed to stagnate - until the websites updates done this month. Trail maps were over 5 years old - not showing trail extensions and reroutes. There is even a thread in this forum that I started a few months ago warning Cumberland Trail hikers not to rely on the maps on the website. I had published that thread AFTER I found out the hard way that the Black Mountain trail to the parking area had been rerouted to another trailhead over two years ago! We had to hike back up Black Mountain in the dark.

Until the revisions this month, the website "activities and events" and "news" pages had not been updated since 2012. Persons interested in volunteering could only find out what was scheduled by calling or going by the CTC office in Crossville during the limited weekday office hours. This should not have been the case!

Also, as I pointed out in the original post, maintaining the 196 miles of hikeable trail is beginning to require more and more work. This trail maintenance takes time and resources away from building new trail. The more trail that is built, the harder it is to keep up with trail maintenance. So bringing in more volunteers and full-time state professional trailbuilders with at least two more motorized trailbuilding machines is the only practical way to continue the momentum and complete the Cumberland Trail in the next 10 years.

By dissolving the associate organization, CTC, and bringing the Cumberland Trail to the forefront of the TTA membership, it is hoped that the number of volunteers and scheduled  trailbuilding days can be increased greatly. Keeping the website up-to-date so that potential volunteers can easily find out what is scheduled should help too. Eliminating the $25 fee and being more welcoming to new volunteers will help build up the number of volunteers.

I feel that this will help complete the Cumberland Trail within the current schedule and budget.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 31 2014, 5:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You're probably right. I am not knocking it.  Sometimes fresh blood is what is needed. I have the utmost respect for the TTA and all its members I've had contact with.  They are a large diverse and well organized hiking club.  Tennessee Eastman Hiking and Canoeing Club is an awesome outfit to volunteer for or belong to.  If I lived in the vicinity I'd be a member of that hiking club. They maintain a large chunk of the A.T. and work with the Smokies and AmeriCorps to keep things going strong.  I agree... you don't have folks PAY to volunteer. Seriously?  Updating the maps and good lines of communication are essential as you point out.
I hope this solves the problem.  What would be cool would be if once the C.T. is completed if they could find a way to fund Americorp maintaining the trails as a paid position. It would be a form of sustainable tourism for the areas the trail runs through!  People will spend monies for eating, gear, lodging, gas,  etc. if they come to hike the Cumberland Trail.   Could be quite a draw.   I wish them all the best whatever the case. I mainly just hope this falling out doesn't shut down the project.   I want to see this succeed.  I'd love to see the C.T. remain free from politics and the sort of B.S. that goes on in the Smokies.  Time to think Big Picture!


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 03 2014, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

post from FB about this:

For what it is worth, here is what Ray Garrett (former chair of CTC) says --

"But as we know things got progressively worse, including Tony’s relationship with increasing numbers of volunteers, culminating in his blow-up at the TDOT meeting on Nov 13, 2013. The record will show that I had already mentioned to Brock Hill in my meeting with him on Nov 12 (before the blow-up) that I was planning to replace Tony Hook as General Manager.

"So Tony Hook was separated from CTC on Nov 18, 2013. The State blocked communications with CTC, except for one channel with Robin Wooten. They were to await election of new officers before resuming communications. CTC elected new officers on Jan 15, 2014. Judy Varner, the new chair, and I worked hard to develop a new plan for working with the state, essentially under supervision of Park Ranger Mark Stanfill. Nevertheless, TDEC would not resume communications with CTC."

follow up to the above post from another person:

Sorry Don since you were not available to post the entire letter from Ray Garrett (former chair of CTC) I will go ahead and do so. This way the whole context of his letter can be understood. It may be a little lengthy but it's a very well written letter and one that if you care about the Cumberland Trail you should take the time to read so here goes: Dear TTA Board Members,

As you know from the voluminous e-mail traffic concerning the incredible action that took place at your board meeting on May 3, we in CTC have been inquiring in vain to learn the cause of the adoption of a motion to dissolve the CTC. I have asked for minutes of the meeting to try to learn of the cause of such action, but the minutes have not been forthcoming. Now we get a “summary” of the minutes of the May 10 meeting in the new TTA Newsletter. (Until this moment we have not been provided a cause for our dissolution.)

Since the secret meeting of May 3 was conducted with no minutes having been taken, there is no record of the actual issues involving CTC, TTA and State parks that served to fuel the debate. Only State officials and TTA officers know the true issues.

What we now see in summary in the newsletter is the list of subjects that were presented by the officers who met in secret with TDEC officials (Note again that no minutes were kept.) Since I was chairman of the CTC board when most of the factors leading up to TDEC termination of all communications with CTC, I feel that I have a perspective worth airing on the items introduced to your board.

I realize that I may be viewed as an arrogant know-it-all physicist, but I am also a rationalist, and a polite one, who deals with issues in a rationalist pragmatic fashion.
We all know that Tony Hook had issues with the CTSP manager. But each of them contributed to their mutual problems. Each was reluctant to communicate with the other.
I dealt with Tony’s intemperate actions many times. I spent many hours on the phone with him, often tamping down an issue that had him angry. But I feel that others should realize that he was driven to get the trail built. He often experienced pushback from State Parks for reasons that only produced delay and frustration. As I say, I am a pragmatist. I looked at the history of CTC and its relationship with State Parks and noted that Bob Fulcher had had issues, indeed difficulties, with all four of the CTC general managers – Rob Weber, Barry Spearman, Paul Freeman, and Tony Hook. Thus I opted to push on both of them. I tried to balance the difficulties between Tony and Bobby against the amount and quality of trail and bridge construction that Tony was accomplishing. I agreed with him that the State seemed to be unable to step back and look at the accomplishment of 180 miles of trail built at low cost (actually zero cost to State parks over the last 1½ years) versus insubstantial issues associated with “control”. Then, in an effort to expand communications I initiated quarterly leader ship meetings between CTC and State parks leaders. The first one of these went well. The State canceled the next one.

But as we know things got progressively worse, including Tony’s relationship with increasing numbers of volunteers, culminating in his blow-up at the TDOT meeting on Nov 13, 2013. The record will show that I had already mentioned to Brock Hill in my meeting with him on Nov 12 (before the blow-up) that I was planning to replace Tony Hook as General Manager.
So Tony Hook was separated from CTC on Nov 18, 2013. The State blocked communications with CTC, except for one channel with Robin Wooten. They were to await election of new officers before resuming communications. CTC elected new officers on Jan 15, 2014. Judy Varner, the new chair, and I worked hard to develop a new plan for working with the state, essentially under supervision of Park Ranger Mark Stanfill. Nevertheless, TDEC would not resume communications with CTC. This position was held in spite of the fact that Judy Varner, the new chair, is an outstanding individual, polite, thoughtful, energetic, generous, an self-effacing. Anyone should be able to get along with her. But apparently not so with Bobby Fulcher. We are told that he did not want to work with Judy. That is now five-in-a row of CTC leaders with whom he has “problems”. If you include me, the previous chairman, that is six-in-a row!!

So with this attitude at TDEC, the decision to cut off future work with Judy occurred before her performance of a very successful Breakaway where things worked smoothly, operating essentially under Mark Stanfill’s supervision. She had been judged before being given a chance. This is mindful of Old Testament justice in Leviticus where punishment for certain transgressions could be carried forward to the second and third generation. Punish the innocent for sins of forbearers. Judy was being banished because of prior bloodlines.

Enough background. Now let me address what I can glean from the TTA newsletter, which is our only source of information at this point.

Items listed in the newsletter included:

Poor Communication. I note that fully four of the officers of TTA are members of the CTC board. The president, Carolyn Miller, is secretary and therefore an officer on the CTC board. I can testify the she has attended essentially every CTC board meeting including special meetings of the executive committee (of which she is a member.) Additionally, we worked hard to improve financial communications through more thorough reporting. I can personally say that I checked with the TTA treasurer and found that the new reporting was very well received. Thus I assert that communication was not a problem unless the four CTC- TTA board members themselves failed to transmit information to their TTA board.

Lack of Trust. Every CTC meeting and all communications were above board. There has been no back stage conniving. Distrust follows in the opposite direction. TTA officers held secret meetings, excluded others, failed in a long list of errors included in the recent letter of apology from your chairman. This definitely engendered distrust of the TTA leadership.

Lack of Respect. I will give you that, especially after recent events. I now have no respect for the TTA board leadership.

Lack of Transparency. I believe this was addressed above under communications. Tony was not forthcoming on numerous occasions, but I know of no example of board actions or plans that were executed in any way other that with complete transparency. I call this a false accusation if it is directed to the CTC board.

Personality Conflicts. Yes we had some of those. I tried the leadership meetings in an effort to smooth some of these. Ultimately this did not work, culminating in Tony’s blow-up. But Tony is Gone.!!

Lack of Understanding of Roles. Our new plan had the roles clearly defined if it had been given a chance.

Lack of Public Input on policy I honestly don’t know what this means.
State Will not work with the new CTC board. We have heard this but not directly from the State. Is this again Old Testament Punishment where the guilty party is gone, but the innocent are to be punished?

I am truly appalled that you as TTA board members would pass a motion to dissolve the CTC withal of its assets and accomplishments weighed against transgressions, the perpetrator of most of which is now gone. The entire process has been handled in an abysmal manner. The CTC board members are upstanding citizens, generous volunteers, and dedicated participants who do not deserve being treated in such a dismissive, disrespectful and hateful manner.

This message is long but all of it needed to be said.

Ray Garrett, Past Chairman
Cumberland Trail Conference
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 03 2014, 5:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm worn out with politics and with all humans. Full throttle and fek it. Y'all go on and kill each other. Let God sort it out.  I can't take anymore.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 04 2014, 8:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

magicmomma
QUOTE
I'm worn out with politics and with all humans.


Sadly, politics trumps performance every time in most organizations. Learning to be good at politics is essential. Evidently, the Cumberland Trail Conference people should have been spending more time playing politics. They were evidently surprised that they were fired. This seems to happen a lot in today's work environment.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 04 2014, 10:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

sure, but not being good at politics isn't a reason to shut down a well-meaning group of volunteers who'd apparently raised big money (with little help from the state), and built big miles (the whole point of the organization).

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 04 2014, 12:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Jun. 04 2014, 8:09 am)
QUOTE


Sadly, politics trumps performance every time in most organizations. Learning to be good at politics is essential. Evidently, the Cumberland Trail Conference people should have been spending more time playing politics. They were evidently surprised that they were fired. This seems to happen a lot in today's work environment.


If the Cumberland Trail Conference had played politics like you suggest then the Cumberland Trail wouldn't have as much trail built as they have now
The CTC has done more for the CT than the TTA or state every has or will.

I stick by my first post..the trail will suffer
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 04 2014, 1:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
I stick by my first post..the trail will suffer


Not necessarily. The trail volunteers knew that they were taking the jobs of full-time paid state employees by doing the trail construction for free. It seems to me that the Cumberland Trail Conference leadership was stupid not to recognize this and to "buck" the Tennessee State Parks bureaucracy by taking all the credit for the fund raising and work that they did. They could have "stroked" the bureaucrats more and the state would have allocated more funding and provided more full-time professional trailbuilders - plus been supportive of the Cumberland Trail Conference.

I think that magicmomma has it right - politics. The Cumberland Trail Conference people were just too busy building trail to see the obvious. They are politically inept and got fired to make way for the more politically savvy TTA leadership. Now the state will hire a lot more full-time trailbuilders and provide trail building machines and equipment in order to complete the trail MUCH sooner. TTA will provide more volunteers and get the scheduled trailbuilding activities on the now up-to-date CTC, soon to be Cumberland Trail Committee, website. The volunteer base should be greatly increased and new volunteers recruited and made to feel welcome.

In summary, I think that hikers gain. The state and TTA will build much more trail now.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 04 2014, 1:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

we shall see if your way of thinking is correct. The TTA has burnt too many bridges to get volunteers from the CTC.
Sounds like your one of the ones who voted to dissolve the CTC...what a shame

Get money from the state to build the trail?? That is wishful thinking
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 Post Number: 18
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2014, 8:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ewker
QUOTE
Get money from the state to build the trail?? That is wishful thinking


Things are different in Nashville now. Revenues are up and the Cumberland Trail and outdoor activities are viewed as a plus when attracting new industries, jobs, retirees, etc to Tennessee. The demographic that Tennessee wants to attract are the young health conscious and well educated types that will view Tennessee's outdoor opportunities as a big plus. This is exactly the type of employee that today's employers want.

You are still thinking in terms of a few hundred untrained volunteers who build trail a few weekends a year with manual shovels, picks, and rakes. You should be thinking in terms of almost a hundred trained Master Trail Builder certified state employees - most newly hired and in their early twenties - who will be working 40 hours per week utilizing Sutter 300's or Singletrack 240 trail building machines. Based out of newly constructed trail building and maintenance facilities in Soddy Daisy, Wartburg, and Caryville, these professional trail builders are expected to have the trail essentially complete according to the five year plan. The few road walks left will be due to delays in property acquisition.

Volunteers will still play a part, especially in areas where it is mostly rock work and the machines aren't as efficient.  So TTA's part is still essential.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2014, 4:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Everyone, BASS at one time was interim director of the Cumberland Trail Conference (CTC).  Paul took his place as director.  He quit volunteering for two reasons.  First, Paul, BASS, and other volunteers built a section of the Cumberland Trail and because the TN State Parks management did not want Paul as director of the CTC, they wrote and distributed a very critical  report of the trail constructed even making fun a bridge Paul's boys built as an Eagle Scout project.  Paul quit and I took his place.  Bass was volunteers webmaster. Because he took offense to the report cause he helped build some of the trail he posted items on the CTC web site that was not conducive of the CTC making an effort to get along with the State.  When I informed him the site belongs to the CTC and not him, he quit as volunteer webmaster and has not been involved with the Cumberland Trail project since 2008.  Needless to say, all of his comments are biased and it appears he has a very strong dislike for me.  He definitely does not know what he is talking about.  Man, his opinion about the State sure has changed.  I guess his hate for me is stronger.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 06 2014, 10:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

thook, that is interesting for sure. Makes you wonder why he is dissing the CTC but thinks the state can get it done when the state didn't approve of the trail work he was on back then.

IMO the state or the Park Rangers won't get the CT built like Bass says it will esp when the state is cutting back on money.

We shall see
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 7:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks thook for exposing this "OP" for what he is - a disgruntled former,  part-time at best, CTC volunteer.  It's a shame that he feels he needs to side with the State and the current TTA leadership in order to take out his grudge on the CTC who is currently responsible for getting the Cumberland Trail where it is today, two-thirds complete.  The petition is still on Change.org although a link from this post won't work from here but if you go to Change.org and at the top put in the search words for: CTC Dissolution  - then it will allow you to see as well as sign the petition. Most TTA members are not trail volunteers and thus won't be building trail, they belong to a hiking association and that is where their interest lie and the current leadership of the TTA are not trail volunteers themselves either.  Could the take-over be all about the money?  The CTC had over $852,000 in their bank account at the time of the take-over, could that have been the objective all along?  Some of it was pre-designated for specific trail work based on the grants but some was not.  Let's just set back and see if the State and TTA can come up with the 30+ miles of trail a year without the hundreds of CTC volunteers backing them!  Oh and btw I'm not a member of the CTC Board of Directors but just a P*ssed Off Volunteer who has spent hundreds of hours helping to complete the dream of the Cumberland Trail!
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 9:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the info.  The picture is clearing now.  Shaking my head.  I say let the CTC finish it. Set politics aside.   I'm over caring how it gets done or really who does it...... but you make a valid point.  Unlike TEHCC.. who has a heft involvement in trail maintenance as well as hiking.. TTA is primarily hiking oriented. Use of the trail .. not building or maintaining trails.  I can't argue that.  It would  be best if the ones who started it .. finish it.

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"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
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 Post Number: 23
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 10:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Petition is signed.  Make me proud of the CTC.

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"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 10:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
It would  be best if the ones who started it .. finish it.






then that would be the TTA........
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 10:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

how is that so?
Tell me.


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"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 11:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

from this website...

http://www.friendsofthecumberlandtrail.org/history....-trails



"At the meeting at Cove Lake on Dec. 7, 1968, Mack Prichard reviewed a 2237-mile system of trails proposed in 1965 by the Tennessee Department of Conservation to the U.S. Bureau of Outdoor Recreation. The proposal, drawn up by C. M. Gorman, Jr., with a compilation of trails by Prichard, listed 7 existing, 23 planned, and 28 proposed trails. The late L. M. Doney, then president of the Tennessee Conservation League, moved that the group establish the Tennessee Trails Association, an umbrella organization to coordinate work on the state trails system. The new association ratified the proposal to use the Cumberland Trail as its pilot project, to prove the feasibility of a state system









the CTC wasnt created til 1997.......
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 12:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ok then. So if I understand this correctly... the TTA began it.
The CTC came after and began building it? Where did the CTC come from in the first place? Why the lag from 1967 until 1997 in the creation of the CTC?

I understand if an organization is failing to accomplish its designated purpose it is probably a good idea to do away with it and re focus on the task.

No argument there.  Not being snippy. Just trying to fully understand.


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"My progress was rendered delightful by the sylvan elegance of the groves, chearful meadows, and high distant forests, which in grand order presented themselves to view."~~William Bartram
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 12:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ok.. i see Hiram Rogers on the board of the CTC and Will Skelton on there.
Both accomplished hikers and authors of hiking guides. I use Will Skeltons book all the time.  I am going to be busy this weekend but in the time to come I am going to try to get in touch with them. I don't expect a response from Will but Hiram has always been very approachable.  I will be happy to share whatever I learn.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 12:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
The CTC came after and began building it? Where did the CTC come from in the first place? Why the lag from 1967 until 1997 in the creation of the CTC?




well...........the TTA started building or establishing the trail before the CTC came along....

the way i understand it, is that the CTC was branched off of the TTA back in 97 because, after a period of dormancy, there was a push to complete the trail........


"This extensive trail is being constructed and maintained largely by volunteers from Tennessee and across the nation, organized and managed by the CTC. The Cumberland Trail Conference (CTC) is an affiliate of the Tennessee Trails Association (TTA), a non-profit 501-© (3) membership organization. The CTC’s mission is to design, construct, maintain, and raise funds in support of the Cumberland Trail"


and, i havent corresponded with will in quite a while, but ive found him to be real friendly and what not....
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 13 2014, 12:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

this gives a little more into the history of why the CTC was established.....

and the period of dormancy that i speak of in my prior post, came from budget issues....


http://cumberlandtrail.org/website....-02.pdf
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