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Topic: Need to whine and complain about thermarest, Then ask for other suggestions< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 3:07 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ive alwas been a fan of thermarest pads.  I still have my original "deluxe" pad (appx15 years old) offering 2" thickness, 25" width, 72in length and a 5.0 r-value.  Perfect, except its about 4.5 lbs and bulkier than most modern tents.  

So, I purchased a NeoAir All season after reading great reviews.  However, here's the problem.  ALL (not just neoair) of thermarest's pads in regular size (72in legnth) are only 20" wide?  What???!!!  How does a normal person (Im 6'0" 175) comfortably sleep on only 20 iches of width?  That makes NO $%^&ing sense at all :(  I understand backpacking isnt about total comfort, however 20in?! Really?!  At that width (keep in mind most sleeping bags are much wider than 20in) your arms have absolutely NO possibility of either 1) staying off the ground when laying on your back or 2) being comfortable if you have the slightest bend in your torso or knees when lying sideways (sideways being the only way you could comfortably lay on this "beam").  Seriously tho, 20in???  Really?

So, I wound up getting a large which is 25in wide.  However the tradeoff is all of the large sizes that thermarest offers are 77in long.  Way too long for most tents.  I have a HUGE 3/4p marmot swallow (larger than most backpacking tents), and 77in is WAY too long for the tent.  Plus, the added length was not able to regulate my heat well on a really cold night.

What the $%^# thermarest, perhaps you could offer a wide version?  I see that they have a wide torso pad, but its only 47in long.  I also looked at their "camp & comfort line" which does offer a couple options at 25x72, but they are all 5pounds, just like the 15 year old version I currently own.
/rant


Suggestions???

Im now looking at other brands unfortunately.  Can anyone recommend a reputable company that offers relatively light weight, durable, h r-value pads that would compete with thermarest, but offer a wider width?  and come in much lighter than 5lbs?

Thanks!
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 3:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I hear ya.  I'd prefer a shorter, wider pad if it were available.  My Prolite 4 is comfortable, but the wasted length just adds useless weight and bulk.  It fits in my Copper Spur just fine, but pushed out the floor of my friend's Spitfire harder than I felt comfortable with.  Ideally, since I'm a side sleeper, I'd like a 25x70x1.5" self-inflator that tapered from the waist to no more than 20" at the foot.  That could possibly shave half a pound and reduce the bulk substantially.  Not knowing the manufacturing process, I still can't imagine how a semi-custom SI pad wouldn't be feasible or even still profitable.  A small premium for the specialty wouldn't seem unreasonable either.

Anyhow...

Kooka Bay offers custom sized air mats, but their site appears to be down right now.  I know Ray has experience with this company, so perhaps he'll have more insightful input.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

REI makes some great 25 inch pads.
http://www.rei.com/product/778150/rei-camp-bed-25-self-inflating-pad
Pretty good. You'll be wanting to look at base camp, or car camping pads if you want something bigger.
I think most companies are just looking to shave weight, and fit smaller UL tents these days.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 4:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The problem isn't the size.  It's the proportion of dimensions.  25x72" is nice, but it's in a 4 lb. square pad that wouldn't fit in most backpacking tents, which seems to be the OP's biggest gripe.  I carry a Prolite 4 Large, which I already consider a compromise of weight and comfort.  I'm just fortunate that it fits in my tent.  It seems the manufacturers could rethink their size options and develop something a bit more useful.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 4:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Personally I found the first rectangular 20x72 NeoAir just fine, but like the new tapered one better.   I am not a lightweight either at 210 pounds.  I figured the  25" one was too wide.  It doesn't fit well in some tents with tapered ends.  It doesn't even come close to fitting in my bivy.

I got a large NeoAir at an REI attic sale for $35.  I couldn't pass it up at that price.  I gave it to my son in law figuring that it was too big for me and he is very tall.  Last time I camped with my daughter and son in law it was pretty cold and both he and my daughter slept in one bag and on that pad.  I guess it is nice to be young, skinny, and in love :)
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Put these wings on a pad:

http://www.rei.com/product....d-wings


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Serpicorabbit @ Sep. 08 2012, 3:45 pm)
QUOTE
Ideally, since I'm a side sleeper, I'd like a 25x70x1.5" self-inflator that tapered from the waist to no more than 20" at the foot.  That could possibly shave half a pound and reduce the bulk substantially.

My thoughts exactly.  I gave the 20" a try hoping, me being a side sleeper as well, that the reduction in width wouldn't be a problem, but for me its a deal breaker.  Esp considering in the rare occasions when I do sleep on my back, my arms are going to be on the ground period.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(treelinebackpacker @ Sep. 08 2012, 4:07 pm)
QUOTE
REI makes some great 25 inch pads.
http://www.rei.com/product/778150/rei-camp-bed-25-self-inflating-pad
Pretty good. You'll be wanting to look at base camp, or car camping pads if you want something bigger.
I think most companies are just looking to shave weight, and fit smaller UL tents these days.

Will check these out and thank you for the suggestion.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The reality is that a 72x25 mat is an exception and that REI at 62oz is not a really good one at that.
By that I mean all brands not just Thermarest...
Franco
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 08 2012, 2:00 pm)
QUOTE
Put these wings on a pad:

http://www.rei.com/product....d-wings

Aside from the fellas teasing because of the whole panty-liner resemblance thing, that's pretty cool.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Serpicorabbit @ Sep. 08 2012, 4:16 pm)
QUOTE
The problem isn't the size.  It's the proportion of dimensions.  25x72" is nice, but it's in a 4 lb. square pad that wouldn't fit in most backpacking tents, which seems to be the OP's biggest gripe.... It seems the manufacturers could rethink their size options and develop something a bit more useful.


(Franco @ Sep. 08 2012, 5:14 pm)
QUOTE
The reality is that a 72x25 mat is an exception and that REI at 62oz is not a really good one at that.
By that I mean all brands not just Thermarest...
Franco

Basically yes that is my biggest gripe.  I also contend that they could EASILY make a NeoAir all season 25" wide, 72 length which would not be much more weight than the regular...probably by only a few more ounces?  And would only result in an increase of 3" packed length over the regular (same packed length as the large).

For example, lets compare the Neo Air All season Reg and Large (Ive owned both).  
-The regular 20x72 is 1lb3oz, packed length is 8" and has 1440sq.in sleeping space.
-The large 25x77 is 1lb9oz, packed length is 11" and has   1925sq.in sleeping space

So, in my opinion, it would make sense to offer a 25x72 version.  By my best guesstimates, the pad would result in 1800sq.in sleeping space, and would probably weigh in around 1lb 6oz.  Packed length would be the main tradeoff at 11" vs 8" but in my experience with the Large pad 11" was a godsend compared to the full 25" length of my old delux self inflator.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sounds reasonable to me.  When's the march on Cascade Designs?

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bender at KookaBay will make you any size pad you like :)

Edit: Apparently there are some issues going on I was not up to date on with kookabay. The website does seem to be down.

I went with the Large NeoAir X-lite. I like it but I also would prefer a regular length!
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Serpicorabbit @ Sep. 08 2012, 3:45 pm)
QUOTE
Kooka Bay offers custom sized air mats, but their site appears to be down right now.  I know Ray has experience with this company, so perhaps he'll have more insightful input.

Not sure what the deal is, but check out the following thread:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin....d=42520
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes forget about Kooka Bay
My impression is that the cost of repairs in time and resources was not really factored in at the start.
Not unusual to see folk admitting having exchanged 20 EMails and that  for a $70 or something pad...


Anyway, my point is that the gripe should not directly aimed at Thermarest but generally at the industry.
72x20 and 77x25 are the standard with almost no exceptions.
For me a 72x23/24 would be nice ....
Keep in mind also that several "20"" once fully inflated are only 18 or 19 inch wide.
Lets start a petition but we need to agree on 23/24/25 first.
(I would opt for the All Season...)
BTW, if you are brave :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kumSl-cbLlY&feature=plcp
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I get paid every time I say something nice about Thermarest....
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 6:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I like my size large Neoair All-Season - I have two. I also have two large Neoairs in the original incarnation, as well as two regulars and a small. Can't have enough Neoairs!

I have no problem whatsoever getting my Neoair All-Season Large into my Scarp 1, which is just about the only tent I've used for the last year...since most of my tents (40 or so) are longer than 84", I can't see that it would ever be much of a problem.

But, as I think I've suggested to a woman on here at least once before, who wanted a shorter but wider pad too, if you have supreme confidence in yourself and your "craft skills", then you can try this:

NeoAir Sleeping Pad Modification ~ A Molestation and Resurrection

Hey! It's only money!

ETA: Damn! Franco beat me to the punch yet again!!
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 08 2012, 2:00 pm)
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Put these wings on a pad:

http://www.rei.com/product....d-wings

Thanks...Those are going on my wish list for my hammock setup.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Kooka Bay is out of business.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(paula53 @ Sep. 08 2012, 10:03 pm)
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Kooka Bay is out of business.

Really?  Could you site your source for the information?
A bunch of people will be disappointed, if true, including me.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I checked with Ray E. after I couldn't find his web page. Ray has owned & reviewed, and tested one. He stated that he is no longer in business.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There are some instructions online for cutting a NeoAir to custom length, think I've seen irons involved, et al ... should one dare.

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(paula53 @ Sep. 08 2012, 10:22 pm)
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I checked with Ray E. after I couldn't find his web page. Ray has owned & reviewed, and tested one. He stated that he is no longer in business.

$hit.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 11:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Synthetic @ Sep. 08 2012, 1:07 pm)
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Ive alwas been a fan of thermarest pads.  I still have my original "deluxe" pad (appx15 years old) offering 2" thickness, 25" width, 72in length and a 5.0 r-value.  Perfect, except its about 4.5 lbs and bulkier than most modern tents.  

So, I purchased a NeoAir All season after reading great reviews.  However, here's the problem.  ALL (not just neoair) of thermarest's pads in regular size (72in legnth) are only 20" wide?  What???!!!  How does a normal person (Im 6'0" 175) comfortably sleep on only 20 iches of width?  That makes NO $%^&ing sense at all :(  I understand backpacking isnt about total comfort, however 20in?! Really?!  At that width (keep in mind most sleeping bags are much wider than 20in) your arms have absolutely NO possibility of either 1) staying off the ground when laying on your back or 2) being comfortable if you have the slightest bend in your torso or knees when lying sideways (sideways being the only way you could comfortably lay on this "beam").  Seriously tho, 20in???  Really?

So, I wound up getting a large which is 25in wide.  However the tradeoff is all of the large sizes that thermarest offers are 77in long.  Way too long for most tents.  I have a HUGE 3/4p marmot swallow (larger than most backpacking tents), and 77in is WAY too long for the tent.  Plus, the added length was not able to regulate my heat well on a really cold night.

What the $%^# thermarest, perhaps you could offer a wide version?  I see that they have a wide torso pad, but its only 47in long.  I also looked at their "camp & comfort line" which does offer a couple options at 25x72, but they are all 5pounds, just like the 15 year old version I currently own.
/rant


Suggestions???

Im now looking at other brands unfortunately.  Can anyone recommend a reputable company that offers relatively light weight, durable, h r-value pads that would compete with thermarest, but offer a wider width?  and come in much lighter than 5lbs?

Thanks!

Hmmm. Get a bigger tent.

I use a Large Neoair and find it PERFECT as is... and I'm only 5'10"/155lbs. It fits like it was ordained for my MSR Hubba and I love the additional length.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 11:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why don't you call CD and ask them if they can custom cut a 25" down for you? Don't give up so easily.

Oh crap this thread got blowen out.. they still didn't fix the dam formating.

.


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(camper10469 @ Sep. 08 2012, 11:21 pm)
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Why don't you call CD and ask them if they can custom cut a 25" down for you? Don't give up so easily.

Oh crap this thread got blowen out.. they still didn't fix the dam formating.

.

Thats actually a really good idea, Ill look into thisb on Monday
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(Franco @ Sep. 08 2012, 5:59 pm)
QUOTE
Anyway, my point is that the gripe should not directly aimed at Thermarest but generally at the industry.
72x20 and 77x25 are the standard with almost no exceptions.
For me a 72x23/24 would be nice ....
Keep in mind also that several "20"" once fully inflated are only 18 or 19 inch wide.
Lets start a petition but we need to agree on 23/24/25 first.
(I would opt for the All Season...)
BTW, if you are brave :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kumSl-cbLlY&feature=plcp
Franco
I get paid every time I say something nice about Thermarest....

Thats a good point and duly noted (re gripe at industry)

I agree, 23-25 range would work well.  My vote would be for 25 and definitely the All Season no question.  Mainly because its already a standard size & cut, and seemingly shouldnt be that dificult for them to produce.  Essentially make a large but with the length of a regular.  Market it as a Reg Wide pad and watch them fly off shelves :D
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(BradMT @ Sep. 08 2012, 11:00 pm)
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Hmmm. Get a bigger tent.

Its no so much the actual length that bothers me (tho it certainly does), its the poor tempurature regulation on sub freezing nights with all the extra volume.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2012, 3:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My ideal size (as in :for me...) would be 68x23 , however I would be happy with a 72x25. 77"  is far too much.
Somehow it has been assumed that if you are shorter than 77" or thereabout you don't need/want  a wider mat.
Sometime width has to do with fabric availability but since they all make a 25" already , having a shorter version should not be a problem.
Of course this would increase production costs but I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a market for it (can I say a large market ?)
Reminds me of when a brand was doing some sample taste tests  for a new pasta sauce.
In the end they could not get a single type to reach a dominant proportion so they just made a bunch of different types .
Sales increased....
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2012, 4:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Of course this would increase production costs but I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a market for it (can I say a large market ?)


WHO YOU CALLING FAT?!

I'm sure if enough people vocalized a demand, it would be considered.  For the Neoair, it seems like it would be easy and inexpensive.  For the Prolite I would expect production cost to increase considerably more just because of the foam inside.  Unless the manufacturing process is simpler than I assume.

Perhaps a poll here listing some desirable options would be in order?  We're not a large community, but we surely represent a good cross section of the demographic on a forum hosted by a major advertiser within the industry.


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(Synthetic @ Sep. 08 2012, 9:58 pm)
QUOTE

(BradMT @ Sep. 08 2012, 11:00 pm)
QUOTE
Hmmm. Get a bigger tent.

Its no so much the actual length that bothers me (tho it certainly does), its the poor tempurature regulation on sub freezing nights with all the extra volume.

That's why I carry a 1/4" Evazote pad cut to fit the Neoair. Goes on top in cool weather.

http://www.prolitegear.com/site/xdpy/ss/Sleep%20Systems.html


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