| Topic: Need to whine and complain about thermarest, Then ask for other suggestions | < Next Oldest | Next Newest > |
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Synthetic 
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 3:07 pm |
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Ive alwas been a fan of thermarest pads. I still have my original "deluxe" pad (appx15 years old) offering 2" thickness, 25" width, 72in length and a 5.0 r-value. Perfect, except its about 4.5 lbs and bulkier than most modern tents.
So, I purchased a NeoAir All season after reading great reviews. However, here's the problem. ALL (not just neoair) of thermarest's pads in regular size (72in legnth) are only 20" wide? What???!!! How does a normal person (Im 6'0" 175) comfortably sleep on only 20 iches of width? That makes NO $%^&ing sense at all  I understand backpacking isnt about total comfort, however 20in?! Really?! At that width (keep in mind most sleeping bags are much wider than 20in) your arms have absolutely NO possibility of either 1) staying off the ground when laying on your back or 2) being comfortable if you have the slightest bend in your torso or knees when lying sideways (sideways being the only way you could comfortably lay on this "beam"). Seriously tho, 20in??? Really?
So, I wound up getting a large which is 25in wide. However the tradeoff is all of the large sizes that thermarest offers are 77in long. Way too long for most tents. I have a HUGE 3/4p marmot swallow (larger than most backpacking tents), and 77in is WAY too long for the tent. Plus, the added length was not able to regulate my heat well on a really cold night.
What the $%^# thermarest, perhaps you could offer a wide version? I see that they have a wide torso pad, but its only 47in long. I also looked at their "camp & comfort line" which does offer a couple options at 25x72, but they are all 5pounds, just like the 15 year old version I currently own.
/rant
Suggestions???
Im now looking at other brands unfortunately. Can anyone recommend a reputable company that offers relatively light weight, durable, h r-value pads that would compete with thermarest, but offer a wider width? and come in much lighter than 5lbs?
Thanks!
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| Post Number: 2
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Serpicorabbit
If I pee on it, it's mine!
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 3:45 pm |
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I hear ya. I'd prefer a shorter, wider pad if it were available. My Prolite 4 is comfortable, but the wasted length just adds useless weight and bulk. It fits in my Copper Spur just fine, but pushed out the floor of my friend's Spitfire harder than I felt comfortable with. Ideally, since I'm a side sleeper, I'd like a 25x70x1.5" self-inflator that tapered from the waist to no more than 20" at the foot. That could possibly shave half a pound and reduce the bulk substantially. Not knowing the manufacturing process, I still can't imagine how a semi-custom SI pad wouldn't be feasible or even still profitable. A small premium for the specialty wouldn't seem unreasonable either.
Anyhow...
Kooka Bay offers custom sized air mats, but their site appears to be down right now. I know Ray has experience with this company, so perhaps he'll have more insightful input.
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| Post Number: 3
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treelinebackpacker
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 4:07 pm |
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REI makes some great 25 inch pads.
http://www.rei.com/product/778150/rei-camp-bed-25-self-inflating-pad
Pretty good. You'll be wanting to look at base camp, or car camping pads if you want something bigger.
I think most companies are just looking to shave weight, and fit smaller UL tents these days.
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| Post Number: 4
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Serpicorabbit
If I pee on it, it's mine!
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 4:16 pm |
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The problem isn't the size. It's the proportion of dimensions. 25x72" is nice, but it's in a 4 lb. square pad that wouldn't fit in most backpacking tents, which seems to be the OP's biggest gripe. I carry a Prolite 4 Large, which I already consider a compromise of weight and comfort. I'm just fortunate that it fits in my tent. It seems the manufacturers could rethink their size options and develop something a bit more useful.
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| Post Number: 5
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TrailTromper
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 4:50 pm |
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Personally I found the first rectangular 20x72 NeoAir just fine, but like the new tapered one better. I am not a lightweight either at 210 pounds. I figured the 25" one was too wide. It doesn't fit well in some tents with tapered ends. It doesn't even come close to fitting in my bivy.
I got a large NeoAir at an REI attic sale for $35. I couldn't pass it up at that price. I gave it to my son in law figuring that it was too big for me and he is very tall. Last time I camped with my daughter and son in law it was pretty cold and both he and my daughter slept in one bag and on that pad. I guess it is nice to be young, skinny, and in love 
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| Post Number: 6
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TDale
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:00 pm |
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Put these wings on a pad:
http://www.rei.com/product....d-wings
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"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
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Franco
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:14 pm |
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The reality is that a 72x25 mat is an exception and that REI at 62oz is not a really good one at that.
By that I mean all brands not just Thermarest...
Franco
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| Post Number: 11
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Synthetic
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:23 pm |
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(Serpicorabbit @ Sep. 08 2012, 4:16 pm)
QUOTE The problem isn't the size. It's the proportion of dimensions. 25x72" is nice, but it's in a 4 lb. square pad that wouldn't fit in most backpacking tents, which seems to be the OP's biggest gripe.... It seems the manufacturers could rethink their size options and develop something a bit more useful.
(Franco @ Sep. 08 2012, 5:14 pm)
QUOTE The reality is that a 72x25 mat is an exception and that REI at 62oz is not a really good one at that.
By that I mean all brands not just Thermarest...
Franco
Basically yes that is my biggest gripe. I also contend that they could EASILY make a NeoAir all season 25" wide, 72 length which would not be much more weight than the regular...probably by only a few more ounces? And would only result in an increase of 3" packed length over the regular (same packed length as the large).
For example, lets compare the Neo Air All season Reg and Large (Ive owned both).
-The regular 20x72 is 1lb3oz, packed length is 8" and has 1440sq.in sleeping space.
-The large 25x77 is 1lb9oz, packed length is 11" and has 1925sq.in sleeping space
So, in my opinion, it would make sense to offer a 25x72 version. By my best guesstimates, the pad would result in 1800sq.in sleeping space, and would probably weigh in around 1lb 6oz. Packed length would be the main tradeoff at 11" vs 8" but in my experience with the Large pad 11" was a godsend compared to the full 25" length of my old delux self inflator.
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| Post Number: 12
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Serpicorabbit
If I pee on it, it's mine!
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:33 pm |
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Sounds reasonable to me. When's the march on Cascade Designs?
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| Post Number: 13
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eric1981
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:33 pm |
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Bender at KookaBay will make you any size pad you like
Edit: Apparently there are some issues going on I was not up to date on with kookabay. The website does seem to be down.
I went with the Large NeoAir X-lite. I like it but I also would prefer a regular length!
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| Post Number: 14
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| Post Number: 15
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Franco
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 5:59 pm |
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Yes forget about Kooka Bay
My impression is that the cost of repairs in time and resources was not really factored in at the start.
Not unusual to see folk admitting having exchanged 20 EMails and that for a $70 or something pad...
Anyway, my point is that the gripe should not directly aimed at Thermarest but generally at the industry.
72x20 and 77x25 are the standard with almost no exceptions.
For me a 72x23/24 would be nice ....
Keep in mind also that several "20"" once fully inflated are only 18 or 19 inch wide.
Lets start a petition but we need to agree on 23/24/25 first.
(I would opt for the All Season...)
BTW, if you are brave :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kumSl-cbLlY&feature=plcp
Franco
I get paid every time I say something nice about Thermarest....
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| Post Number: 16
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Gabby
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 6:03 pm |
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I like my size large Neoair All-Season - I have two. I also have two large Neoairs in the original incarnation, as well as two regulars and a small. Can't have enough Neoairs!
I have no problem whatsoever getting my Neoair All-Season Large into my Scarp 1, which is just about the only tent I've used for the last year...since most of my tents (40 or so) are longer than 84", I can't see that it would ever be much of a problem.
But, as I think I've suggested to a woman on here at least once before, who wanted a shorter but wider pad too, if you have supreme confidence in yourself and your "craft skills", then you can try this:
NeoAir Sleeping Pad Modification ~ A Molestation and Resurrection
Hey! It's only money!
ETA: Damn! Franco beat me to the punch yet again!!
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paula53
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:03 pm |
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Kooka Bay is out of business.
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| Post Number: 19
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paula53
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:22 pm |
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I checked with Ray E. after I couldn't find his web page. Ray has owned & reviewed, and tested one. He stated that he is no longer in business.
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| Post Number: 21
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SW Mtn backpacker
Born to hike, forced to work ...
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 10:22 pm |
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There are some instructions online for cutting a NeoAir to custom length, think I've seen irons involved, et al ... should one dare.
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Usually Southwest and then some.
In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
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| Post Number: 22
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| Post Number: 23
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BradMT
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 11:00 pm |
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(Synthetic @ Sep. 08 2012, 1:07 pm)
QUOTE Ive alwas been a fan of thermarest pads. I still have my original "deluxe" pad (appx15 years old) offering 2" thickness, 25" width, 72in length and a 5.0 r-value. Perfect, except its about 4.5 lbs and bulkier than most modern tents. So, I purchased a NeoAir All season after reading great reviews. However, here's the problem. ALL (not just neoair) of thermarest's pads in regular size (72in legnth) are only 20" wide? What???!!! How does a normal person (Im 6'0" 175) comfortably sleep on only 20 iches of width? That makes NO $%^&ing sense at all I understand backpacking isnt about total comfort, however 20in?! Really?! At that width (keep in mind most sleeping bags are much wider than 20in) your arms have absolutely NO possibility of either 1) staying off the ground when laying on your back or 2) being comfortable if you have the slightest bend in your torso or knees when lying sideways (sideways being the only way you could comfortably lay on this "beam"). Seriously tho, 20in??? Really? So, I wound up getting a large which is 25in wide. However the tradeoff is all of the large sizes that thermarest offers are 77in long. Way too long for most tents. I have a HUGE 3/4p marmot swallow (larger than most backpacking tents), and 77in is WAY too long for the tent. Plus, the added length was not able to regulate my heat well on a really cold night. What the $%^# thermarest, perhaps you could offer a wide version? I see that they have a wide torso pad, but its only 47in long. I also looked at their "camp & comfort line" which does offer a couple options at 25x72, but they are all 5pounds, just like the 15 year old version I currently own. /rant Suggestions??? Im now looking at other brands unfortunately. Can anyone recommend a reputable company that offers relatively light weight, durable, h r-value pads that would compete with thermarest, but offer a wider width? and come in much lighter than 5lbs? Thanks!
Hmmm. Get a bigger tent.
I use a Large Neoair and find it PERFECT as is... and I'm only 5'10"/155lbs. It fits like it was ordained for my MSR Hubba and I love the additional length.
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Contentment is natural wealth, luxury is artificial poverty. – Socrates
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| Post Number: 24
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camper10469
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Posted on: Sep. 08 2012, 11:21 pm |
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Why don't you call CD and ask them if they can custom cut a 25" down for you? Don't give up so easily.
Oh crap this thread got blowen out.. they still didn't fix the dam formating.
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Franco
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Posted on: Sep. 09 2012, 3:06 am |
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My ideal size (as in :for me...) would be 68x23 , however I would be happy with a 72x25. 77" is far too much.
Somehow it has been assumed that if you are shorter than 77" or thereabout you don't need/want a wider mat.
Sometime width has to do with fabric availability but since they all make a 25" already , having a shorter version should not be a problem.
Of course this would increase production costs but I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a market for it (can I say a large market ?)
Reminds me of when a brand was doing some sample taste tests for a new pasta sauce.
In the end they could not get a single type to reach a dominant proportion so they just made a bunch of different types .
Sales increased....
Franco
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BradMT
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Posted on: Sep. 09 2012, 7:51 am |
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(Synthetic @ Sep. 08 2012, 9:58 pm)
QUOTE
(BradMT @ Sep. 08 2012, 11:00 pm)
QUOTE Hmmm. Get a bigger tent. Its no so much the actual length that bothers me (tho it certainly does), its the poor tempurature regulation on sub freezing nights with all the extra volume.
That's why I carry a 1/4" Evazote pad cut to fit the Neoair. Goes on top in cool weather.
http://www.prolitegear.com/site/xdpy/ss/Sleep%20Systems.html
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Contentment is natural wealth, luxury is artificial poverty. – Socrates
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